00:00Zach Jackson joins us right now on the Wise Heart Right. We make a right call Kyle Wright hotline.
00:04Good morning to Zach Jackson. Hello, Zach. Hi, guys. How are we doing? We're doing wonderful
00:09or about as wonderful as we can talking to you in the morning, but you're a man who spits the
00:13truth the way you see it. So let me ask you this. If Shador isn't the starting quarterback,
00:18are we keeping him all year? There were some crazy things said yesterday
00:21among social media and everything like that. Shador's going to start a lot of games
00:26a quarterback this year. I'm not sure that's going to be in September. I don't know how many. I don't
00:32know how it's going to go, but that seems like a wild, wild scenario to me to where he would
00:38be
00:38traded. Now, we have not begun the preseason except for one game, and I'm sure you wept during that
00:44game seeing how much better Carson Beck looked than what you see every day out of Berea,
00:47but I just don't really see a scenario where the Browns move on from Shador Sanders.
00:52What's your problem? I said Carson Beck proved a lot that last year at Miami.
00:56I mean, I said that last year, and I wasn't a huge fan of his.
00:59It was jarring to watch him throw compared to what we watch every day.
01:05The Hall of Fame game, Zach?
01:07Yeah. Yeah.
01:09I call that one ball a hospital ball. That's just me.
01:14That's just me.
01:16Go ahead. Ask him a question.
01:18All right, Zach. So what did you make of the brand new first-time head coach
01:24and the way that he handled the quarterback situation and the messaging about the quarterback
01:29situation? And do you think as a media member, Todd Munkin owes you the truth?
01:35Well, it was strange for sure.
01:38I'm not going to make too much of it because I still don't get why they messaged it that
01:44way on Saturday or Monday, but I'm not going to make too much of it because it's all madness,
01:47Anthony. It just really is. So why he would expect anyone, media member or not, to believe
01:54the way he said it yesterday, I don't know, but it's his right. It's his quarterback competition.
01:58It's a root canal, and he chose to do it. But it's all madness. They're about to put
02:03Deshaun Watson back on the football field in 2026. It's all madness.
02:07So, yeah, it might be something we look back on, but I really don't think it is. I really
02:14think it was an unexpected twist that they just didn't want to talk about. And, you know,
02:20it's back to things at hand. I do think he was going to make his starting announcement
02:24yesterday before that happened. But again, I'm guessing. I don't know. Just really strange,
02:30but another day in the life out there.
02:32Starting announcement just for the game against the Bears on Saturday?
02:35Yeah. Who do you think he's going to start? You think it'll be Watson?
02:38Yeah. Yeah. I feel pretty strongly it's going to be Watson there. And the other thing we
02:44haven't really talked about, even though we've talked about everything, is like even if Shador
02:49was clearly ahead and he's not, like Watson still has to play in the preseason. He hasn't
02:54played in two years. So if he's at all in the plans, at all in the possibilities, he has
02:58to play. So I just think the most sensible thing is you start Watson. He plays a couple
03:03of series. You know, then Shador comes in. You're not, you haven't scripted anything.
03:09You don't know what those opportunities will bring. He gets to watch the game early
03:12from the side. And then he comes in and plays a much longer period of time. And then you pencil
03:17him in as the starter and you see how next week goes. So we're 11 practices in, but in terms
03:22of the next 10 days or so, two preseason games in the joint practice. And, you know, now away
03:28from the installation stage, I really think it's just getting interesting. So I think
03:33the best stuff or the most important stuff is yet to come.
03:37Zach, we're always looking for the little things or the breadcrumbs. Do you see the
03:41players responding to one quarterback over the other or the coaches may be more supportive
03:46or coaching one up over the other? Have you been able to notice any difference?
03:50No, not really. The number one difference that I noticed, there are, there are different
03:55things about the way Todd Munkin runs practice compared to, we watched the same coach for six
03:59years. Right. But the number one difference being out there every day for every throat is
04:04the wide receiver play, the juice that those guys have in the way they occasionally make
04:09the big place, but just in general, just the route running and the giving it a chance,
04:14whether it works or not is, is the number one difference. But no, I would be really
04:19stretching to say that I'd noticed anybody getting coached differently or anything being
04:25different. You know, there's times I'm watching for who Todd Munkin is talking to and how he's
04:29talking to them, things like that. But I, I, that would really be a stretch in, in terms
04:35of saying that. Are we sure that Munkin makes the call at quarterback?
04:40Well, are we sure, sure, sure? I don't know. I think we better be sure. I think it should
04:44be. Um, you know, now, now that leads to another discussion of someone, doesn't someone have to
04:51jump in the way and say, you can't possibly put Deshaun Watson back out there. You're unburdened
04:56by the past, but the rest of it cry over it every day because what the conversation should go.
05:01But yeah, I'm pretty sure that he makes the call. And I'm, I'm the one thing I'm sure about here
05:06on
05:07August 11th or whatever day it is, is three quarterbacks are going to start for the Cleveland
05:10Browns this year. The level of play is just not any good. It's not. And this is going to be
05:16an
05:17evaluation year. So there is a good number of good young players on this team. And this year is about
05:22developing and evaluating them. It doesn't mean they're only going to win two or three. I don't
05:26know how many they're going to win, but multiple quarterbacks are going to play. I'm convinced of it.
05:31You think people are accepting that?
05:34Oh, I think some of the people I talked to are accepting of it. You know, I, I think most
05:39people have
05:39a rational grasp on this. I think people should be excited about the wide receivers.
05:44I think the defense, you know, looks good and, and has really given these guys, the quarterbacks,
05:49the coach, everybody a push every day. I think there's a good tempo and energy, uh, to training
05:54camp, but there's no depth on this team. This team is going to be half first and second year
05:59players, and it's probably going to be bottom five quarterback play. So I don't know why anybody
06:04would expect any different. Does Dylan Gabriel factor into any of these conversations at
06:09all? Or are we just, uh, riding things out until he's out of here one way or another?
06:14Um, well, he's, I don't think he's going to be out of here. Um, let me say this a week
06:19ago, Watson looked unplayable guys. And that, that has totally changed, but he looked so bad
06:26and he has thrown it better. He has thrown it much, much better, um, on all the days, but
06:30one. Now when he throws over the middle, it still looks like it's going to be a pick six
06:34every time. But if you're watching every bro and every drill and charting every rep, like,
06:39like we obviously are, the one thing you've noticed is that Dylan Gabriel is getting, um,
06:44work with it too. But that's what he is. He's a backup quarterback. And in the case where
06:49someone would be unplayable or unavailable, like they're in no position to give Dylan Gabriel
06:54away. So he's a backup quarterback. He's not in the discussion here for the future, but
07:00like I, it would take going back to the top of the conversation, it would take a wild
07:05turn of events for me for, for Dylan Gabriel to be traded. And it would take them some
07:09getting something in return, not just saying, Oh, Hey, we blew this pick and now we're going
07:13to move on. Cause they don't think they did. So they drafted a backup quarterback in the
07:17top one, but that's what he is. He's a, he's a backup quarterback, but then they put
07:20that on Stefanski. They tried to, but that's just, that's unfair and untrue. That was an
07:26organizational pick. That was not Kevin Stefanski's pick. Interesting. You're the first one I've
07:32heard say that. I'm just saying you're the first person I've heard say that. I apologize.
07:37Go ahead. Yeah. Um, Zach Jackson right now from the athletic, he's been there every single
07:42day. Uh, I, I found it interesting that Todd Munkin, uh, earlier or late last week said
07:49Shador Sanders has come so far from where he was, but it got me thinking, well, where was
07:54Shador Sanders? He did play in seven games last year. And of course his fan base, they
07:59talk about him as a pro bowler. Did Todd Munkin really not think that much of him when he took
08:04over the job for him to talk like that? Because we're sitting here in a quarterback competition
08:09where we're wondering if Shador who had some nice throwing days early, but then it looked
08:14like Watson supposedly had surged ahead of him. Like, where is he really Shador Sanders?
08:21Yeah. He's a, he's a developing quarterback. He was last year and he is this year. Um, I
08:26think, yeah, that I interpret the way Todd Munkin has consistent consistently said that
08:31the same way that, but where is he? I don't know. Do I think he absolutely got better over
08:37the end of the spring? Yeah. Do I think he's, he's comfortable in some ways here and we see
08:42it? Sure. Um, you know, it's kind of choppy out there and Munkin continues to say that he's
08:47behind in the operation. The other guys have more experience. I mean, he and Dylan Gabriel
08:52have the exact same NFL experience and he said, Dylan's ahead of that. And then he tried to say
08:56because Dylan played in three college programs. Well, Shador played in two. So, um, yeah,
09:02this is a developmental quarterback prospect. And this whole thing is the guy that sunk the
09:06franchise versus the guy who, if he gets a lot better, could be an average starting quarterback.
09:11Well, isn't there credence to maybe Shador still, even though he had those starts last
09:17year, which I think you can kind of just wipe out of your memory bank, understanding where
09:22that team was and how he was thrown into that situation and certainly not prepared really
09:27for that situation that maybe he's still not ready, but that there could be some optimism
09:33that once the offensive line gels, once those rookie and second year targets get another
09:39year or more games of, you know, maturation, that maybe it would make more sense for Shador
09:44to come off the bench and that could be optimal for all parties involved.
09:47Um, I think the making it more sense discussion is separate than, than, yeah, I think you could
09:53expect Shador to be better two months from now than he is. And that if he is developing,
09:58which it looks like, um, he's going to get his chance to play.
10:01I'm just curious about where we are when all is said and done, you know, go into the
10:07season. All right. Say Deshaun Watson is named the starting quarterback, not necessarily because
10:11he is like seized control of it, just because clearly the coach doesn't necessarily think
10:16Shador is ready right now, which I don't think is the end of the world in a rebuild in a,
10:21in
10:21a, maybe a bridge season or whatever. Like, I don't think that's the end of the world.
10:26It's, it's, it's not the end of the world at all. And my gut feeling again, right now,
10:31more than four weeks before they play a game is that Shador Sanders will not start the season,
10:35but he will start the most amount of games that that's how I see this going.
10:39Zach Jackson joining us here in the wise heart, right? We make a right call call right hotline.
10:43Very sorry for that snafu right there, Zach. Apologize for that. Um, well that you see,
10:48that's the, it's the weird thing. It's like, well, are we just creating more, more controversy
10:54around the guy that doesn't need any more controversy that he really doesn't stir up
10:58himself. It's just been the rest of us kind of getting it going here. Cause I mean, he's
11:02become such a polarizing figure and I'm like, well, he doesn't really say much. Uh, that is
11:06like, like it's not Baker Mayfield where Baker Mayfield would go right after media members
11:11and right after people he thought were haters and all this others are like, he doesn't do
11:15any of that stuff. Yeah, no, he hasn't done any of that stuff. Um, this is the only active
11:20quarterback competition among the 32 camps, correct? I think so. Yeah. So, I mean, this
11:26is certainly the only one where they're considering putting a guy, Deshaun Watson's spot back on
11:31the field. It's the only one where they haven't named the starter where we don't know. So
11:34this, the longer this goes on, everyone's free to draw their own conclusions. And it's not
11:40his fault that there is a portion of people living with every pass, living through the phone
11:45with every pass and every training camp practice. But when they constantly say that it's competitions
11:51going on, you know, and then they take a practice day from him, like those are the things that get
11:58pushed along. So, um, you know, they're probably not going to be an answer until Sunday, the 23rd.
12:04And I think all of us, I think the team, and then all of us who talk about the team
12:08will get better
12:08once there is that, but that doesn't mean it's the final answer. They're drafting a quarterback high
12:12next year. Shador should be getting more reps and more chances here, and they should just sink or
12:18swim with him. So the fact that they're not willing to do that probably answers to some extent what
12:24they think of him, but we don't know that for sure, because it's just the same except for one day
12:29since the spring, except for last Saturday, every day has been the same. Every answer has been the
12:34same and the results are okay. Shador's had a couple of really good days. He's had a couple of really
12:40okay days. I thought yesterday was a really okay day. They both looked good in one drill.
12:44Other than that, it was that Watson's had two incredibly terrible days where you're like,
12:49what is even going on here? And then he's had two really good ones. I know man that the arm
12:54looks
12:54strong. It looks good. So now finally, everybody's going to get to see in the two preseason games.
13:00And then in between, there's going to be important practices, including the most important practice,
13:04the joint practice next week, a setting in which, you know, Watson, in 2024, that was the reality
13:10check for the organization. Can you remember this? And they couldn't get a yard. And the whole
13:16organization was like, oh yeah, well, there goes that. And two years later, they got him back out
13:22there.
13:24Those were fun times. Actually, the one that really sticks out to me, I remember, because I
13:30remember, um, am I drawing a blank on my, our third rounder MJ Emerson, him and Justin Jefferson
13:37going after each other. And he looked really good against Jeff, Justin Jefferson. And then he went
13:40out and had a bad year, which was surprising. And then I remember the one against Buffalo years ago
13:48where the bills players were walking off the field, even talking trash to people who weren't
13:52even players, weren't even like on support staff, just regular media members about how soft the
13:57Browns were that day. That was a, that was a very bad day. And it ended up a very bad
14:01season there.
14:02Well, the single, the single greatest joint practice moment is when Troy Hill fought Sterling
14:06Shepard 20 minutes after practice that that was there. But like the things you remember are 23 in
14:12Philadelphia and then 24 in Berea when Minnesota was here, when it was like, oh my
14:16gosh, guys, like this is just not working. Like this isn't vague. This isn't, um, concerning.
14:22This is in front of your face that they can't get a yard.
14:26You knew that Troy Hill was like old style with it because when they come to you up over the
14:31head,
14:32waving the fist, like that's how you know, it's like, well, this is a different look. We got to
14:35be careful with this. Cause most people get around the face. He came up here with it. So it was
14:39a
14:39little bit odd. I remember that one. That was a wild one. That the one where Freddie Kitchens
14:43basically had a bounty on anybody involved with the Indianapolis Colts. That was a hell
14:46of a day. Right. And that's when Todd was on the staff. And Todd kind of alluded to that.
14:52That's right.
14:54So, yeah. So we haven't gotten, we haven't gotten a re like a long winded answer. The
14:58Browns wanted to scrimm it. They wanted to go out to Chicago and have a joint practice
15:02for whatever reason. It didn't work out. And so then, especially when that didn't work
15:06out, we're under the assumption that it was going to be two days with the bills because
15:08like here you're having a quarterback competition. You have a new team. Why wouldn't you want the
15:12extra days? So we get the schedule and it's only one day. And Todd gets asked about it
15:16on the very first day. And he's like, well, you know, there's, there's logistics of going
15:20to all of this. But for me, the fact that I'm not sweating it is because like on the second
15:24day, basically all you do is fight here. Do you remember that day in Grand River, Indiana
15:29or wherever it is? Like, that's what they did. They went out there to fight. It was so embarrassing.
15:34Such a good point. I love it. Zach, thank you. Do you have anything more for him there,
15:38Tony? Okay. Zach, thank you very much for the time. Uh, again, we appreciate it. Sorry
15:43for the, uh, uh, the, uh, miscue there and we will talk to you soon. Thanks guys. Zach
15:48Jackson on the wise heart, right. We make a right call, right. Hotline.
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