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00:00Join us in studio, fresh off his show on Westwood One this Sunday morning,
00:05Lino Willingham.
00:06You're from D.C., right?
00:07I'm D.C., so I know bad football teams.
00:09You know bad football teams?
00:10I know bad football teams.
00:11You feel our pain here in Cleveland?
00:13Not necessarily, because you guys will never experience what I got in 24,
00:17going to the conference championship and having that ounce of hope.
00:20We've got a real quarterback in town.
00:21We're different.
00:22Ouch.
00:23We were both in the basement at one point in time.
00:27I give you that great intro, and you're like,
00:28you'll never have what we had.
00:29You'll never have it.
00:30We actually got to see a good quarterback, and we played in the conference.
00:34You know what?
00:3430 years ago, the Browns played in the conference championship, too.
00:38Once upon a time.
00:39You saw him at training camp yesterday.
00:41Bernie.
00:41Bernie Kozart.
00:42Yeah.
00:42Who is just an awesome human being, by the way.
00:44Doesn't know me from a can of paint.
00:46Was just like, oh, I don't normally see you here.
00:47My name is Bernie.
00:49I'm like, I know who the hell you are, Bernie.
00:51But just a stand-up dude.
00:52No, I've enjoyed the past couple of days, man,
00:54and I was saying it before we hopped on.
00:56I don't know how you all have described it this morning.
01:00The last two days out at Browns camp, yesterday in particular, a movement day.
01:06Because I don't know how you all are looking at it.
01:09I think there is a clear cut.
01:10We have the answer for who's starting on Saturday.
01:12Oh, no.
01:13We know who's starting on Saturday.
01:14It will be Deshaun Watson.
01:15Yeah, we opened the show celebrating.
01:18Well, not celebrating.
01:19That's the wrong word.
01:20I apologize.
01:23Formalizing the end.
01:25Yes, there we go.
01:26The final of the quarterback competition felt like yesterday.
01:29It felt like they wrapped it up yesterday.
01:31The quarterback competition for who's going to start the preseason opener.
01:36I asked Todd this yesterday during his presser,
01:39how much stock he's going to put into the preseason versus practice.
01:44And I'm glad he gave the mature adult answer that he should have.
01:47Because the reality is, guys, you all have covered training camp for years.
01:51Quarterback more than any other position in the National Football League,
01:54you cannot stimulate it in practice.
01:56Because you can't touch the cot.
01:58You can't gauge a guy's sense of pressure.
02:00You can't gauge a guy's ability to maneuver and escape.
02:03So, while I believe Deshaun clearly has a leg up going into the preseason opener,
02:09what I'm curious of, guys, is how big is the gap right now between him and Shador?
02:14And how well does Shador have to play in these preseason games to close that gap
02:19to potentially be the week one guy?
02:21Well, I'll answer that for you.
02:22I think the gap isn't so much in the on-the-field play.
02:26Because they both have been the same.
02:28They've been the same.
02:29I mean, the other day, I got killed on social media.
02:33Because I'm a little bit of a smart aleck at times.
02:35And I was a little bit of a smart aleck the other day on Friday.
02:37Because they were chucking the ball down the field.
02:39And there were some god-awful throws.
02:42There were some throws that just on a dime, you just feel like,
02:44you're ready to fit these guys for gold jackets in Canton.
02:47And then there are throws you're just like,
02:49I can't believe these guys have ever seen an NFL field before.
02:52And that's not specific to Deshaun.
02:54That's not specific to Shador or Dylan Gabriel.
02:57Like, it's all of them, which is a problem for me.
03:01They're all terrible.
03:02It doesn't matter who they start.
03:04It's bad.
03:05But here's the separator.
03:06After listening to Mike Bajakin,
03:08which I believe you were there for that yesterday as well.
03:11And the thing that I like and respect about Todd Munkin,
03:15I know we joked about, like, I think he fibbed to us yesterday.
03:18Yeah.
03:18He did.
03:19It's okay.
03:19It happens.
03:19It does.
03:20But for the most part, he's been, every time we ask him a question,
03:25we get an answer from him, with the exception of injuries.
03:29He explains things, which I respect and helps me do my job better.
03:34I know what I'm looking for in practice, okay?
03:36That you're willing to tell me what you're trying to accomplish
03:39and what you're looking for.
03:41I think the separator is in the details.
03:43It's in the, you know, all these little things that Shador is at his best
03:49when he's freelancing.
03:50That's not the NFL.
03:52It's not a freelancing league.
03:55And it's a very structured league.
03:57Every coach has their way that they want things done.
04:00You know what I mean?
04:01And so I think the separator is the playbook, the processing of the information
04:10that we heard Mike Bajakin talk about yesterday.
04:12Pre-snap stuff, yeah.
04:12Pre-snap stuff, the post-snap stuff.
04:15Like, when you're talking to me about Shador has finally learned throwing the ball away
04:21is a winning play as a quarterback, which for me, that's quarterbacking 101.
04:25And I'm not qualified to do that job, but even I know that.
04:29The fact that that's a quantum leap forward for him culturally as a player,
04:35like, to me, I think that's the separator.
04:37Because when you're 60 years old like Todd Munkin getting your first job,
04:42like, you want a quarterback who's on his P's and Q's
04:44and, like, at least can do the classrooms, like, all those, like,
04:48little intricate things.
04:50It almost feels to me like the play is secondary.
04:53For me, I think Shador has looked better on the field than Deshaun Watson.
04:56And everyone out there has said that, which is why, to me,
04:58like, I don't know if it's me.
05:00Do I need to get the hell out of town for Shador's, you know, sake?
05:02Ever since I've gotten here, the last two days, man,
05:05it has clearly been Deshaun Watson looking like the better guy.
05:08I go back to the games, though.
05:10Because you can look like, you know, Bernie Kosar in practice all you want.
05:13The reality is when the lights are on for real and the bullets are flying,
05:18you got to perform.
05:19And I don't know if Deshaun's going to outperform Shador in the games.
05:23He'll have the leg up because he's working with the better personnel
05:27because he's going to be running with the ones.
05:29But as you said, Shador's a gamer, man.
05:32And I don't want to take that away from him.
05:34This thing is far from over, is what I would say,
05:37in terms of the quarterback competition.
05:38I think it's far from over.
05:39I think these games really are going to play a big factor into the decision.
05:43I want to zoom out just a smidge because, obviously, we started this,
05:46you know, mentioning you're from D.C.,
05:48got to be in a conference championship game.
05:50Obviously, there's so much excitement still about Jaden Daniels after this season.
05:54I'm kind of just of the belief, man, that maybe the Browns don't have one.
05:58Maybe you've got to get through this season, get into April's draft.
06:02We're hearing so much about this college class
06:04and this quarterback class is supposed to be the real deal.
06:08Now, we've heard that these last two years.
06:10It hasn't materialized.
06:12Are we spending a lot of time on Shador v. Deshaun,
06:16and maybe it might not matter in the long term for the Browns
06:18until we find a guy like what the commanders found in Jaden Daniels?
06:23It's never a sure thing, is what I would say,
06:26talking about, you know, how many guys are expected to go
06:29in the 2027 draft in the first round.
06:32I take you back to 2024.
06:35The top three guys, Caleb, Drake, May, Jaden Daniels,
06:38clearly head and shoulders above the rest.
06:40Mike Pennix, respectfully, isn't worth a damn.
06:43J.J. McCarthy, respectfully, isn't worth a damn.
06:45Bo Nix, obviously, has turned into a fine player.
06:47So, even if there are eight, six, seven quarterbacks
06:51that get drafted in a round one, you've got to pick the right one.
06:54I'll say this big picture about Cleveland.
06:56The fact that they are playing this game,
06:58that's what it is.
07:00It's a joke.
07:00The fact that they're playing this game with Deshaun Watson,
07:03I think is a bad look for them as an organization.
07:05I think it reeks of Jimmy Haslam's fingerprints being all over it
07:09because the reality is, if you're Andrew Barry and company,
07:12look at the job you've done the last offseason, last two offseasons,
07:16flipping this offensive line, flipping this wide receiver core.
07:18Whoever wins the job is going to be set up for success
07:21because I like the Browns supporting cast.
07:23The question is, or the problem is, rather, we know what Deshaun is.
07:28If they leave, and I said this yesterday when I hopped on with the fellas,
07:31if they leave 2026 without a clear-cut, definitive answer on what Shador is,
07:36someone should be fired.
07:37Yeah, well, yeah.
07:38Bottom line.
07:39That's what this year should be about.
07:40To think that you could evaluate him last year under those set of circumstances
07:45is a joke.
07:46Where he didn't get a single, meaningful rep.
07:49Right.
07:49Like, and this is, and the Shador fans really came after me
07:54because I said, hey, if he doesn't win this job, that's on him.
07:58Like, at some point, you have to be responsible for your own results, right?
08:02Like, I don't feel that this quarterback competition has been unfair.
08:05I don't think it's been tilted.
08:08I don't think there's a finger on the scale.
08:11Because if you can't beat out Deshaun Watson, this sounds terrible,
08:17but I'm going to say it.
08:18Like, how bad do you have to be?
08:19That's the thing.
08:20And I'm going to add this kind of context to it just from yesterday.
08:25And I don't know if you all, like, calculated the reps.
08:28Maybe I'm off of this.
08:29It felt like, just from watching, without counting each individual rep,
08:35it almost felt like Dylan Gabriel got as many reps as Shador yesterday.
08:38It did.
08:39Like, that's what it felt like.
08:40There's been a big dose of Dylan these last, since Thursday, really.
08:44And they keep saying it.
08:45He's earned it.
08:46He's earned it.
08:47They're being very poignant with the words they're using.
08:49We may be at a spot right now where Shador is closer to being the three
08:52than the one.
08:52Oh, wait a minute.
08:53I'm not the only one that has that observation.
08:55I mean, honestly.
08:57I'm just going off of the reps.
08:59That's the tell here.
09:00That's the beautiful thing about the National Football League.
09:02They can get up there and give us word salad all they want.
09:04I got killed on social media yesterday for suggesting that.
09:07It's a real thing.
09:08You're not wrong for that at all.
09:09That's you keeping it eight more than 92, brother.
09:11Like, that's just what it is when it comes to this thing.
09:14Now, if Dylan was Deshaun's height, he'd be the starter.
09:17100%.
09:17He's not as bad as people say either.
09:20I think he's accurate.
09:21I think he's a rhythm passer.
09:23I said if you could put Dylan Gabriel in Talon Green's body,
09:27they would have a quarterback.
09:32It'd be something.
09:33They would.
09:34And maybe blend in some of Shadour's improvisational instincts,
09:41intangible things.
09:42You put, like, if we could put those three dudes together,
09:46give me Talon Green's physical attributes,
09:50give me Dylan Gabriel's mind, okay,
09:55and you give me Shadour Sanders instincts,
10:00throw all those together, we might have a quarterback.
10:02I'm about to say, you're making a quarterback cocktail
10:04that's sure to get you to your destination by the end of the night, pal.
10:07That's just what it is.
10:08Give me drunk on some wins.
10:10That's what that's about.
10:11Here's the, like, silver lining, though, for Browns fans.
10:14Like, the quarterback competition is its own thing.
10:17I like the rest of the roster.
10:19Yeah.
10:20There was a referee out there yesterday that said he, like,
10:23listens to the show overnight.
10:24He's from the Gene Steratore School of Officiating.
10:27And he heard.
10:28I think I know who you're talking about.
10:29He heard my ridiculous, and I'm calling it ridiculous,
10:31because if you don't listen to me normally,
10:33and this is the first thing you hear me say,
10:35you're going to be like, what the hell are you talking about, brother?
10:37I believe for the first time since the 90s,
10:39and I believe this was the NFC Central,
10:41when there were three teams in the division,
10:43we're going to have the entire AFC North make the playoffs this year.
10:46Wait, what?
10:48Yes.
10:48You probably think, how was that possible?
10:50Including the Browns?
10:50Yes.
10:51How do you look at this roster on paper?
10:54If it was any other city attached to it,
10:56if it was any other logo, any other colors,
10:59you would look at this roster on paper and think, you know what?
11:01Outside of quarterback, there's some interesting pieces here.
11:05Think about what you had last year at the skill position spot.
11:08You've got three real matchup nightmares.
11:11In Harold Fannin, in Casey Concepcion, and then Denzel Boston.
11:16Like, that's real.
11:17And then, you all know, the meat of this team is going to be Quinshawn Judkins
11:20touching the football 25 to 30 times per contest.
11:23Like, they're going to be a run-first team.
11:25They're going to take their shots off play action.
11:26And you can't even really evaluate that part of the offense yet
11:29because of the nature of training camp.
11:31I do want to ask you defensively.
11:33Obviously, the Browns made the headline of the offseason,
11:35sending Miles Garrett to the Los Angeles Rams.
11:38Get a suitable replacement back, though, in Jared Verse,
11:41who's been disruptive, I'd say, in training camp.
11:44And, you know, just completely gotten a huge brawl with Spencer Feneau yesterday.
11:50What do you make of the defense?
11:51Because I do think when you mentioned, you know, a path for this team
11:54to be good, to be a surprise team,
11:57it's got to be running the ball with Judkins
11:58because you don't know what you're going to get from the quarterback spot.
12:01And you've got to be really good defensively still.
12:03I like the personnel on defense.
12:05You all have covered camp, obviously, when Miles was here.
12:09Different personality, right, than Jared Verse?
12:11Sure.
12:11Way different.
12:12Polar opposite.
12:14So what you may have lost in sack production,
12:16you may have gained in leadership.
12:17I think everything that you've seen and heard from Jared Verse,
12:21they're talking about this behind the scenes.
12:22I think he is challenging these guys to not suck anymore.
12:26When you come from an organization like the LA Rams
12:28where all he knows is winning,
12:30you can't walk into Cleveland and be okay with the stench
12:34that, you know, comes from this organization.
12:35I think everything, to the fight and practice yesterday with Fano,
12:39I think it's all rooted in getting the best out of these guys
12:43and him on this defensive front along with, you know,
12:46Akwara and year two of Mason Graham.
12:49There's some interesting pieces up front.
12:51I think they're going to be a blitzing head.
12:52Well, you look at what happened with Fano for the rest of that practice.
12:56After that happened, right?
12:57He would, I think he lit something up in him, okay?
13:02Because they've been working together after practice.
13:06Verse would, you know, be working with Spencer after practice
13:09and pointing out technique and things like that.
13:12Great to see.
13:14Doesn't have to do that, but he's doing it.
13:16And then they get in that fight.
13:18First actual punches thrown.
13:20It was a fight.
13:21Punches thrown.
13:21Guys are going to the ground.
13:22I'm sad that I didn't get the video.
13:23I'm sad I didn't get the video.
13:24I was too, I was late to the punch as well.
13:27But like, I think that brought something out
13:31because every rep that Spencer won after that,
13:36he was celebrating like he just won the Super Bowl.
13:38And the one that really stuck out to me,
13:41he had nothing to do with.
13:42It was at the end of practice
13:45and they were running the cadence drill
13:48and they got Jared to jump off sides.
13:51And Jared comes across the line of scrimmage
13:54and he runs, you know, he's like,
13:55does the, oh, man, I messed up.
13:58I messed up.
13:59And he's, you know, doing, doing,
14:01I call it the jog of shame behind the quarterback
14:03to go back around.
14:05And Fano gets up and he's celebrating.
14:10Like he, you know.
14:11Tells him emotion.
14:12Yeah.
14:12So I think those are all good, positive things there.
14:16And you're right.
14:17It's a young, hungry team.
14:18I think that the eulogy and the epitaph
14:22on this whole season is going to be
14:23if only they had a quarterback.
14:27Yeah.
14:28I mean, I just, and this is going to show my bias
14:31and the dog, what dog I have in the quarterback competition.
14:34The last time we saw Mr. Perfect Timing
14:38with a good supporting cast
14:39was at the University of Colorado
14:42where for two years he looked like arguably
14:44the best quarterback in all of college football.
14:48I'm eager and intrigued to see
14:50what he looks like with real weapons around him,
14:53with a real offensive line, with a running game.
14:55I think there's something there.
14:56His superpower is ball placement and accuracy.
14:59Yeah.
15:00That's been literally the Achilles heel of Deshaun Watson.
15:03No pun intended since he has been here in Cleveland.
15:05He cannot hit guys in the hands.
15:07The arm strength's still there
15:09despite the separated shoulder,
15:10but like the accuracy's not.
15:11I think it's going to come down to the games though, guys.
15:13I am, Brown's preseason football
15:15is going to be appointment television
15:17for all three weeks.
15:18Can he play in structure?
15:19Like, I think that's the thing with Shadur.
15:22You have to.
15:23No, I know, but you know how coaches are.
15:26Well, yes.
15:27Okay.
15:28They want it done their way on their timeline.
15:32You know what I mean?
15:32And Todd is a hands-on dude.
15:34I love the way he coaches them, by the way.
15:36He's old school.
15:37He's a yeller.
15:38I was that type of dude
15:38when I was a lame Division III football player.
15:41I was the type of dude,
15:42some dudes you got to pat on the back to motivate them.
15:45Other dudes need a foot broke off in their ass.
15:47That was me.
15:47I needed to be cussed out.
15:49I needed to have my face mad.
15:50I was that type of dude.
15:51I feel like Shadur has been receptive to the coaching
15:55from what it looks like.
15:56I don't see him pouting.
15:57I don't think he's used to that.
15:59I just don't think he's used to it.
16:00I don't think that's how his dad coached him.
16:04I would push back on that
16:07just because, I mean, Deion's not taking any BS.
16:10I understand that taking a bit.
16:11Bob's just saying, like, the grabbing the face mask,
16:13getting his face, that kind of stuff.
16:14You know what I mean?
16:15It may have been.
16:16Deion strikes me as a guy.
16:16He's like, yo, Shader.
16:17Give me a son.
16:18What the hell are you doing?
16:19Yeah, come here, son.
16:20What are you doing?
16:21Yeah, look, their relationship is unique.
16:23I think the Browns even...
16:24Can you hang with us another segment?
16:25I'm always down to do that.
16:26All right.
16:26Let's do it.
16:27Yeah, let's do it.
16:28Lenell Willingham joining us from Westwood One.
16:31It's great talking to people from other markets
16:34to cover other NFL teams.
16:36You've been around the Washington Commanders,
16:38and listen, I realize,
16:39especially under the Snyder ownership,
16:41they weren't exactly the bastion
16:43of how it should be done in the NFL.
16:45But in recent years,
16:46they've kind of gotten together,
16:47so you have an idea of what it should look like.
16:50So it's interesting getting to compare and contrast.
16:53We're trauma bonding is what this is, right?
16:54We're trauma bonding, guys.
16:56Visitor loves company.
16:57That's all we're doing here.
16:58We still don't have a quarterback.
17:00It's been 40 years, it feels like.
17:02What was it?
17:0389 years, 99 years, the lady from Titanic?
17:06That's how long it feels here in Cleveland
17:08since we've had a quarterback.
17:10We were just talking off the air, Lenell,
17:12about continuing our conversation about the separation.
17:18And you brought up, man,
17:19they're doing a lot of just pre-snap stuff.
17:23They dedicate whole sessions of practice
17:25to just pre-snap.
17:26And I'm like, yeah.
17:28The drill that I saw Friday,
17:31and I don't believe they did it yesterday.
17:32I'm not sure.
17:33No, they do it every day.
17:34Really?
17:35It's unlike anything I've ever seen.
17:36It's a daily drill.
17:37We call it, Coach Riz and I, Lance Reisland,
17:40we do our post-practice recaps on YouTube.
17:42Get that every day after practice.
17:45We're usually pretty quick getting that up for you
17:47on the 92.3 The Fan YouTube channel.
17:48Shameless plug there.
17:50But, like, they go ahead and they run what Coach Riz calls
17:55the perfect plays.
17:56And that, you know, you get the play in the huddle.
17:58You regurgitate it to the huddle.
18:00You get to the line of scrimmage.
18:02Everyone lines up.
18:02You do all your shifts, your realignments, adjustments,
18:06all your pre-snap motion and whatnot.
18:08Snap the ball.
18:09And then that's it.
18:10We go on to our next play.
18:11They do that every single practice.
18:15And I do see, even in that session,
18:19Todd Munkin gets annoyed.
18:21Yes.
18:21And he should.
18:22But here's the thing.
18:23Like, you're installing a new system.
18:26I get it.
18:26You first learned it in the spring.
18:29This is the install phase of camp, is what I would say.
18:33And maybe it's lasting a little bit longer maybe than it should.
18:37Well, they're beyond it now.
18:38Like, so the last two practices, this is according to Todd Munkin.
18:43Who's deemed to be trustworthy at the podium.
18:45I mean, aside from yesterday.
18:48Aside from yesterday.
18:49That was a big joke.
18:52I was throwing off with that yesterday.
18:54You can't.
18:55I think it's bad on him as a coach to do that.
18:57That was his first one.
18:59That was his first one.
18:59Didn't they have some PR release, too?
19:02Oh, yeah.
19:02So a lot of the Shador fans feel your way.
19:04You know, these people are so confused.
19:06What do you mean it was his day?
19:08And then you get out of the practice field and it's not his day.
19:10And then there was a release that went to some of the media that said Munkin just wanted to see.
19:16It was a statement.
19:17It was just an explanation.
19:18It was a statement, you know, explaining that Munkin wanted to see Watson with certain personnel.
19:24Now, we've talked to Daryl, who was there yesterday.
19:27And then Ashley Bastog of Cleveland.com said the personnel seem pretty similar to what we've had for the last
19:3310 practices.
19:33It was just the starting offense, is what Todd wanted to see him.
19:37Yeah, they weren't running reverses and flea flickers and...
19:40Nothing special.
19:42No, there was nothing special about yesterday's practice other than the first eight practices were, as Munkin put it, the
19:50installation.
19:50The last two practices were seeing more of the mesh jerseys, simulating, you know, defense scheme, all that kind of
19:56stuff.
19:57That was different for yesterday's practice and then the length.
20:01They went almost two and a half hours, which is what they're allowed to do at this time.
20:05They went, I think it was 2.20 I clocked them at.
20:08So they went from about 1.30 to 3.50-ish, a little after 3.50 yesterday.
20:18So they got the work in, but that was the first time where we asked a direct question, we were
20:24given an answer that did not mesh with what we ultimately saw.
20:29So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt in that regard.
20:32However, we had Ashley Bastog of Cleveland.com on at 10, and she explained, well, they just had the walkthrough,
20:37and that's what the walkthrough is.
20:39You're going through your practice.
20:40This is what we're going to work on today.
20:41So you mean to tell me you came to the podium and you did not know that Deshaun Watson was
20:46going to be with the ones?
20:48It's strange, and it leads me to believe that something happened behind the scenes to where that decision was made.
20:53And some people are going to say, oh, it's so speculative, and I'm going to say, well, what the hell
20:56else am I supposed to believe?
20:57Why would he just randomly make this decision, make this choice?
21:01And it feeds the narrative of Shador maybe not doing everything that he could do to put himself in the
21:08best position to win the job.
21:10I hate that that's still a thing.
21:11I hope that it's not true and that it just is a narrative.
21:15But like we opened up saying, he got as many – it felt like Dylan Gabriel got as many reps
21:21as him yesterday.
21:22Now, to Shador's credit, I didn't see him pouting.
21:24I didn't see him separated from the team.
21:26I thought he handled himself well.
21:28Maybe because he knows the media is out there.
21:29You better handle yourself like a pro.
21:31But I think it's strange.
21:32He may be – and this is going to come off as like me being hot take Harry.
21:36We may be sitting at a point right now where he's closer to being the three than the one.
21:41And I think that that is like – it's shocking because I think he's uber talented.
21:46Like I'm probably in the minority with this.
21:49I look at the two years at Colorado and what he did and how they turned around that program.
21:53And yes, it was an elite supporting cast.
21:55Yes, he didn't play on time a whole bunch.
21:58But in terms of his arm talent, ball placement, accuracy, like that stuff is there.
22:03If it's all procedural stuff, get him a damn wristband.
22:07Josh Allen wears a wristband for crying out loud.
22:09Like if it's just that, then you got to go with the dude that's got the more upside.
22:13I think it's him.
22:14But for whatever reason, they're reluctant to kind of really hand them the keys to the job.
22:18Now, Brown's a pretty data-driven organization.
22:21It influences a lot of what they do.
22:23With that in mind, it does feel a little surprising that they might go to a guy
22:28that hasn't put any good data out in six seasons in Deshaun Watson.
22:33You keep going back to the games, though.
22:35What do you want to see from Shador or Deshaun in these preseason games
22:39that could maybe make Brown's fans just feel a little bit better
22:43about the current state of this entire offensive operation?
22:46I think whoever is under center this year for the Cleveland Browns,
22:50they need to channel their inner James Harden.
22:53And I know that's going to really scare some people around here.
22:56You mean be really, really good in the regular season
22:58and then not so good in the postseason?
23:00Disappearing in the postseason?
23:01Well, I mean, for the Browns, just getting to the playoffs is a step forward.
23:04It would be huge.
23:05I think they've got to play the role of point guard at the quarterback position.
23:09I go back to the supporting cast.
23:11I'm bullish on the group.
23:12I think it's just getting the ball in KC's hands,
23:15getting the ball in Denzel's hands,
23:17getting the ball in Dylan Sampson's hands.
23:19They have weapons.
23:19By the way, we have two Denzels on the team.
23:21I've got to pause here for a second.
23:22Oh, you're referring to Denzel Boston, not Denzel Ward.
23:26Not Denzel Ward.
23:26Yeah, not the Warden.
23:28The problem has been they've also been getting the ball
23:30into Denzel Ward's hands in training camp here.
23:32So I just want to clarify that.
23:34By the way, I didn't see the starting corners out there a lot yesterday.
23:38I don't know how much that had to do with Deshaun's amazing day.
23:42I'm just saying.
23:43No, I'm just saying.
23:44I'm just saying.
23:45A couple defensive linemen.
23:47His last amazing day earlier this week,
23:49the entire starting defensive line was not out there.
23:51Yeah.
23:52They were starting to put together some pieces here.
23:56Denzel Ward, there was a practice.
23:59It felt like Denzel Ward was out there the entire practice.
24:01They had a couple corners that weren't practicing,
24:03and Denzel was out there against the threes.
24:06Oh, man.
24:07Just getting reps.
24:07Yeah, so maybe just keeping the legs fresh.
24:11As far as the games go, being a distributor,
24:15obviously not having the procedural stuff.
24:16I think the number one thing for the Browns offense this year,
24:19especially when you're going to be a run-first team
24:21that wants the ball control and eat clock,
24:23you've got to stay ahead of the sticks.
24:25That's the most important thing.
24:26Can you consistently be ahead of the chains at the quarterback position?
24:29I think that's the number one job of Shador as well as Deshaun Watson.
24:34And then for Watson in particular,
24:36he's been a turnover machine since he's gotten back under center with the Browns.
24:41You don't want to see any turnovers.
24:42And then for Shador, man, like let it all hang out.
24:46Go out there and try to make plays, man.
24:48And I know what people are going to try to say.
24:50You've got to get the ball out on time.
24:51Yes, that matters.
24:52Be in rhythm.
24:53Play within the structure of the offense.
24:55But when it breaks down, man,
24:56show folks why you were a pretty damn stellar college quarterback in Colorado.
25:02Yeah, this defense for the Browns,
25:05I don't want to say the quarterbacks are influenced because they are.
25:08They're throwing the ball.
25:08But 17 interceptions so far in camp.
25:12And this is a secondary that they can get hands on the football,
25:16but they weren't actually catching it.
25:18Yeah.
25:18I thought that yesterday.
25:19Well, no.
25:20For some reason, now all of a sudden,
25:22these guys are starting to catch football.
25:24So you know what?
25:25Instead of being Mr. Negative,
25:27flip it over, glass half full,
25:30the defense can catch footballs now.
25:32Yeah.
25:32So if anything happens to the wide receivers,
25:34we'll just throw a couple of those corners in there.
25:36Throw a couple of defenders there.
25:37I think as far as the defense,
25:39like it's tough because obviously the last couple of years,
25:43they've really spearheaded this group.
25:44I think they take a little bit of a step back just naturally
25:46from having a different voice leading the room.
25:49I like the personnel.
25:51Like Grant Delpit walks around looking like a tight end.
25:53They just extended him too.
25:55Big physical safety.
25:56I love him.
25:58Emmanuel McNeil Warren, guys.
25:59If I was here during draft season,
26:00the Browns fans probably would have loved me.
26:02I thought the Browns taking EMW where they did
26:05was better value than Dallas taking Caleb Downs
26:08at number 13 overall.
26:10Wow.
26:10In terms of just what they are as players,
26:12what EMW was at Toledo,
26:14a big hitter, ball producer.
26:16I think he's the chess piece in the back end
26:20that's going to make things go.
26:21It feels like he's exclusively playing at safety right now,
26:24but with his tackling ability,
26:25he could be a big nickel.
26:26He could be a guy that's a blitzer.
26:28I really like his game a lot.
26:30Yeah.
26:30It is a team that the last two years,
26:33when you look at the young pieces that have been brought in,
26:37it really does now feel like there's one missing piece to the puzzle,
26:42but it's the most important piece,
26:45and it's the quarterback.
26:46And they've got to figure out, look,
26:49Deshaun is not going to be it.
26:51And that's why I just have no interest in watching Deshaun Watson.
26:56But just because I understand something don't mean I like it,
27:00but I guess I can understand why Todd Munkin in his first head coaching job
27:04and organizationally going into the season would feel a little more comfortable.
27:08Let me ask you this before we get out of here.
27:13Again, looking at the glass half full,
27:16I don't think if Shador Sanders doesn't start week one, it's a failure.
27:19And I think maybe, okay, you give Deshaun six weeks,
27:24and if it's trash, then you get Shador ready to take over from there
27:28and maybe just give this kid a little extra time behind the scenes to kind of develop.
27:33What do you think of that?
27:34He's had a lot of time behind the scenes already.
27:37I think as far as the first two weeks, you're on the road.
27:40You're going to have to have a silent count in.
27:41I don't know how up the speed Shador is with that, how well he executes that.
27:45So that's probably going into that decision as well.
27:48It's going to be two ferocious pass rushes.
27:52I just, I'm going to double click on what you said about Deshaun not being it.
27:57I'm objective with this because I can give a rat's ass about the Browns.
28:00I'm a commander fan, right?
28:02The supporting cast is good enough to where if he just doesn't,
28:07for lack of a better phrase, like leak down his leg, like they could be fine.
28:12I can see a scenario where it's got to be him being point guard, though.
28:17It's got to come with a supportive, a supporting cast in terms of the running game.
28:20It's got to come with protection up front along the offensive line.
28:23That should be the silver lining, too, for Browns fans.
28:26We're worried about the quarterback competition, but Spencer Fano's a dude.
28:29Zion Johnson's a man's man on the interior.
28:33What they do on the right side is fascinating to me in terms of,
28:36do they keep Titus Howard out there at the right tackle spot,
28:40or do they feel they're better off kicking him inside?
28:42Tevin Jenkins is a mountain of a man.
28:44They have depth.
28:46Levinson off the bench.
28:47These are dudes that started games last year, now going to be depth pieces.
28:51So, like, that's why I'm bullish on this group,
28:53because I think they would withstand the injury bug,
28:54and I think they're going to be good enough defensively to where they're going to keep,
28:59keep them in games.
29:00It's going to be on the offense not to screw things up.
29:02Well, if you're right, and every team in the AFC North makes the playoffs this year,
29:07next time you're in Cleveland, I owe you a round.
29:08How about that?
29:09There we go.
29:09All right, there you go.
29:10For a prediction, that bullet should be a several rounds, brother.
29:13But, no, I appreciate y'all having me, man.
29:15This was fun.
29:16Liddell Willingham, you hear him on Westwood One Sports Night,
29:19Monday through Wednesday, 11 p.m. to 3 a.m.
29:22Eastern, Saturday, and Sunday, 8 a.m. to 11 a.m.
29:26Did I get that right?
29:27You're a pro's pro.
29:28All right.
29:28It means I can read very, very well.
29:31Ha-ha-ha-ha...
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