00:00Jory Epstein was in the Browns draft room on draft day and had some great stuff afterwards.
00:07She joined us and talked all about it.
00:09She was out in Berea just recently, had a couple of really interesting pieces on Yahoo Sports.
00:15And Jory's joining us right now on the Wiseheart Right.
00:18We make it right.
00:18Call Kyle Right hotline.
00:20Jory, good to have you with us.
00:21Hey, Jory.
00:23Jeff, Andy, great to be on with you.
00:26I enjoy your story on Jared Verse.
00:29You sat down with him.
00:31This is a guy who was with the Rams thinking Super Bowl.
00:34Now he's in Cleveland thinking what?
00:37And what did you think of your interview with him?
00:40Yeah, I'm glad you asked what he's thinking about Cleveland because I always ask him in my interviews.
00:44I'll ask all my prepared questions and I'll say, is there anything you want me to know that I didn't
00:48ask?
00:49I'm only here for a day on the training camp tour, two days.
00:51Let me know.
00:52And he said, yeah, I want you to know that we're not here to rebuild and take for the number
00:56one pick.
00:57This isn't a rebuild year.
00:58We're trying to win.
00:59I know a lot of people are thinking that Miles isn't here anymore and that's the direction we're going, but
01:04I'm not here to rebuild.
01:05I was really impressed with Jared.
01:07He's that perfect blend of the dog fire competition.
01:11He's going to trash talk his opponent, even if his opponent is his teammate and it's someone like Spencer Fano,
01:17y'all's rookie first round pick.
01:18Or, but then afterwards he's going to say, you know what, let me tell you why I beat you so
01:23that you can beat me better.
01:24Let me keep you after practice, Spencer, so that you can understand why you went too far inside or too
01:29far outside with the way that you sat and then you'll be better next time.
01:33So he's super cerebral, but also a big trash talker.
01:36And I think that combination is the type that the Browns believe will elevate not just himself, but the guys
01:40around him.
01:41Is he the best answer you could come up with when you have to trade away the, you know, one
01:46of the top defensive players in the league?
01:48Like I, to me, he has checked every box that I can think of almost to the point where our
01:54eyes are always on the offense to see what's going to happen there.
01:57But we don't worry about the defense.
01:59And as Jeff and I were saying this morning, I was like, you realize we don't talk about the defense
02:03at all.
02:04And the number one defensive player in the league is no longer with us.
02:09Is that because of verse?
02:12Yeah, I think so.
02:13And I think we have to remember, it's not like miles to verse straight up, which I know you're not
02:17suggesting,
02:17but it's miles for Jared, a 20-27 first, a 20-28 second, and a 20-29 third.
02:23I mean, I talked to people around the league after that trade, and there were quite a few people who
02:27said I would have done the trade that Cleveland did.
02:30And this is general managers included who I talked to around the league because of the value that they got
02:34relative to the life cycle of the team.
02:36And you have to understand where you are.
02:38I think when you look at Jared, this is a guy who he was defensive rookie of the year.
02:42He's been to a Pro Bowl, and he really is just kind of starting because when he was playing for
02:47the Rams, he had this read-and-react system where he had so much he had to factor in before
02:52he could figure out his responsibilities.
02:54Obviously, in Cleveland, for a while, first under Jim Schwartz, now under Rudy, it's kind of like, no, go attack,
02:58attack, attack.
02:59And so I'm not suggesting he's miles, and he made very clear I'm not coming in here to be miles
03:03as the trade compensation that came with Jared suggests.
03:06But there is this element of we believe this system fits really well to what he does, and we believe
03:12he is an ascending player who, by the way, is what this team needs in its life cycle
03:17because there are a lot of great players in this league who make themselves great but not everyone around them
03:21in terms of the work ethic and what they're learning.
03:24Now, you elevate from your talent, but then there are others who are actually bringing everyone with them.
03:28And Jared is the guy who's bringing everybody with him.
03:31Jory, he gave you a comment that it sounds more than just a guy changing teams and getting traded in
03:39a career.
03:40Let me read it to you.
03:42And then what he said afterwards, I'd love for you to comment on.
03:45There are a few moments in your life that genuinely sculpt you into who you are as a person.
03:52That's pretty heavy stuff coming from a young guy who just, you know, a couple of Pro Bowls just got
03:57traded.
03:58He's looking at this really big picture-wise.
04:01What did you take out of that and then what he followed up with?
04:06Yeah, I was pretty floored by his authenticity, his candor, like the kind of raw, vulnerable emotion that he showed.
04:12I mean, he's like, it broke me when the Rams told me this because he thought, I mean, if you're
04:17playing for the Rams, he's like, I had my friends there.
04:19I had my community.
04:20I had my routine.
04:21I mean, he's thinking he's going to go win a Super Bowl next year in L.A. with all the
04:24teammates.
04:24I mean, guys like Braden Fisk, who he played with in college, then got to go to the Rams with.
04:28And now all of a sudden, it's like, forget about whether Cleveland's going to win the same number of games
04:32that there's the Rams.
04:33And obviously, no one's projecting that they are.
04:35You also are leaving all of your friends and your teammates and everything.
04:38But I just think that the way that Jared processed the information, first of all, I thought it spoke volumes,
04:44that his first response to Sean McVay was, can I tell my teammates myself?
04:48I don't want them hearing it from someone else.
04:50And so Sean got all the offensive guys were lifting there during OTAs because it's a June 1st trade.
04:55And they brought them all into the team meeting room so Jared could address them.
04:58Now, what kind of leadership does that show that in that moment, when his life is being upended professionally, obviously,
05:04as he said, he's like, I'm not, he said, I don't want to overemphasize it.
05:07I'm still alive.
05:08It's not the end of the world.
05:09But he's like, I want to tell you guys what you mean to me.
05:11And now I want to go to Cleveland.
05:13But I do think he feels really at home in Cleveland.
05:15I think that the room around him is picking him up.
05:18I'm like, well, this Cleveland defense has been good for a while.
05:21And I talk about this when I go to so many places or when I'm in Cincinnati, they're telling me
05:25because they feel like they have Dexter Lawrence and other guys on that defense.
05:28Now, maybe Joe Burrow won't feel the need to play hero ball as much and will be able to stay
05:33healthier because the defense will make it so you don't have to score 40 points to win.
05:37Well, again, I know the offense in Cleveland is not the offense in Cincinnati.
05:41But if you have a defense that makes it so you can win a game with 15 points this week,
05:4625 next week, and it's not 40 every week,
05:49that Jared can help the defense do that so that the offense can get up to speed.
05:53All right.
05:53Let's talk about what else you have online, too, at Yahoo Sports right now, the quarterback battle.
05:58And is it what you thought you were going to learn when you came to camp?
06:02And where do you think we are?
06:05I had so much fun trying to understand how do you stage a quarterback competition.
06:09Because of the nature of my training camp tour, I mean, I've already visited eight teams since training camp started.
06:14You see kind of how one team does it relative to the next.
06:17So I start my tour in Minnesota where they're switching off between Kyler Murray and J.J. McCarthy within practices.
06:23And so when I go to Cleveland, I say, well, why are you guys alternating days for Deshaun and J
06:28.J. with the ones?
06:28Well, how do you watch film differently after practice if you're Todd Munkin and you have Lamar Jackson last year,
06:34but now you're watching film trying to understand who your quarterback is?
06:37And the whole idea of this is not apples to apples you can't know.
06:40And I think some teams are like, oh, when we know, we'll know.
06:43And obviously they'll know enough.
06:45But you can't make this decision with certainty.
06:47You have to do the best you can, given that they're not going to be apples to apples.
06:51I mean, I would say my personal opinion is that I left thinking Sean is ahead of Shador in this
06:58competition.
06:58They have different strengths.
07:00And obviously Shador did a lot more recently in this.
07:02What have you done for me lately?
07:03But I think that coaches really want their players to be able to run their systems.
07:09And when I say that, it's not just about like, oh, so the coach can feel good about the plays.
07:12It's as Todd Munkin told me, every single play in the NFL is scripted.
07:16This isn't just air it out and play backyard football.
07:18And you need to have your offensive line protections where you are.
07:21You need to have your receivers in the right understanding.
07:23You need to understand what the defense is doing to diagnose it.
07:26And I believe that the coaching staff and the front office is going to feel better about where Deshaun is
07:31at.
07:32But I still think preseason games are going to be an important benchmark to show that.
07:35And to show that physically his body is going to be able to hold up, which you can't know for
07:39sure.
07:39But then I think because of that, I would expect Deshaun to start week one.
07:43And then we'll see as the season goes how that goes for the Browns.
07:45Jory Epstein joining us from Yahoo Sports.
07:48You can follow her on Twitter, now X, at Jory Epstein.
07:52It's J-O-R-I-E-P-S-T-E-I-N.
07:56With all of the youth at the skill positions, Jory, and all of the new guys on the offensive line,
08:03it screams what you said.
08:05I want a quarterback who's able to run the offense and get that.
08:09Because everybody else is kind of new and young and everything else.
08:12How close do you think Shadur is, from what you've seen, from what Todd Munkin told you,
08:17to being able to pull off exactly what Todd wants, as opposed to a guy who's been in the league
08:24for a number of years in Deshaun?
08:27It's a great question.
08:28I'll say two things.
08:29One, I talked to offensive coordinator Travis Switzer.
08:31I believe it's Switzer, not Switzer, according to Andrew Siciliano, who knows everything about the Browns.
08:37And he said that, because I was asking him, like a year ago, I was here and with the four
08:42quarterbacks and what's this competition?
08:45Everyone told me, whoever can operate the offense best is going to get the week one job.
08:51And when I asked Travis that, Travis says, look, yes, you need a threshold to operate this offense.
08:56You need to be at a certain threshold.
08:57He goes, I believe all of our guys are going to be there week one.
08:59And I don't think that that is going to be what needs to decide this, because I think they're all
09:03going to be above that threshold.
09:05I also think it's worth noting that general manager Andrew Barry told me that Shadour has made the greatest strides
09:11of anyone in that room from pocket management, processing, understanding what they're trying to do.
09:15So I think Shadour has grown tremendously, as any player does.
09:19This is not a Shadour thing.
09:20I know everything in Cleveland becomes a Shadour thing.
09:22But any player, your rookie year, you've got to get used to the windows.
09:27The spacing is different.
09:27The windows are different.
09:29All of a sudden, the guys are bigger, stronger, faster.
09:31So you have to have that adaptation.
09:32And I think that the snaps he had last year are going to help him.
09:36I think that he is within the realm of what Todd wants.
09:40But I think it makes sense, just logically, that if you're Deshaun and you played a lot longer and you
09:45played at this pretty high level for a while, that if you can knock the rest off, and that's an
09:49if, then you're going to be more ready.
09:51So I don't think they're leaps and bounds apart, but I do think that there are certain elements of Deshaun's
09:57experience that give him the nod.
09:59And then it's up to Shadour to go show, hey, but I'm going to be the playmaker.
10:01Because when I talked to Andrew, I love how he put it, where he said, quarterbacking is two things.
10:05It's playmaking and decision-making.
10:07And so the Browns are trying to figure out who gives us the best combination of those two things.
10:12Jory, you were in the draft room with the Browns when they took Spencer Fano.
10:16You saw him on the field the other day.
10:18What do you think and what are you hearing?
10:21Yeah, I was in the room when they took Spencer Fano and they took Casey Concepcion.
10:25And then I was hearing a lot about how interested they were in guys like Denzel Boston as well.
10:29So, I mean, let me just tell you that the draft went a lot better than some of the ways
10:34they prepared for it to potentially go relative to their board.
10:38I would say that Spencer Fano, I mean, they love this guy.
10:41I think they think that he has that tough, competitive football character that's going to allow him to continue to
10:46get better and better.
10:47I also think it's worth noting that most people around the league think offensive linemen and defensive linemen are not
10:53going to be ready to be at their peak year one.
10:55And so I think he's growing.
10:57I think he's learning a lot.
10:59I was only there for one day of practice, so it would be hard to say exactly where I think
11:02he was, especially given how many people were switching off.
11:05And obviously with him and DeJuan and kind of who they're playing with when.
11:08But I think to me, the fact that he is spending time after practice with guys like Jared Burst to
11:13better understand what he can do to get better is really a big deal.
11:18So I would say I think his arrow is pointing up and he's developing for offensive linemen and defensive linemen
11:24until you get into preseason games, at least, if not week one, I have trouble being like, this is where
11:29they're at.
11:31Jory, great to have you with us again.
11:33Thank you very much.
11:34Anytime you're back in Cleveland, by golly, we're calling you.
11:36So get ready.
11:37Thanks, Jory.
11:39Andy and Zach, great to talk to you.
11:40Thank you, Jory.
11:42Jory Epstein, joining us on the Wiseheart Right.
11:44We make it right.
11:45Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
11:47Again, some stories on Yahoo Sports about the Browns.
11:49And she was in that draft room when they took Fano and Casey and had a great piece about that.
11:55It's a pleasure to have her with us.
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