- 14 hours ago
In an exclusive interview with India Today, Israel's Ambassador to India Reuven Azar discussed the escalating conflict in West Asia, Israel's military strategies, UN's Gaza report and more.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:06so as war clouds regather across west asia i'm joined by a very special guest the israeli
00:12ambassador to india ruben azhar is with us good to have you once again mr azhar on the show
00:18what we've seen in the last few days including today is a wave of retaliatory strikes by iran
00:25and the united states against each other the locusts against spreading to other gulf states
00:30now from an israeli perspective are we tend to presume that the ceasefire is dead and buried
00:36because we also have negotiations that are going on in the backdrop of the memorandum of understanding
00:43that was signed between iran and the united states last month where does israel stand do you believe
00:48the ceasefire is dead and buried not necessarily i think that this escalation derives just from the
00:54fact that the irgc the revolutionary guards are trying to change international order
00:59by imposing a new order in international waterways and whether they wouldn't be doing that or trying
01:05to do that there wouldn't be any problem with the ceasefire so so what you're saying is that this
01:09is a battle for control over the strait of hormos in particular and what you believe is the right
01:15of passage for ships from across the world not only me i think that also india but also the
01:20international community we've seen it in the g7 declaration it would be ridiculous that you know
01:26in the straits of malacca or in gibraltar or you know countries would start saying that they are
01:32controlling it and they want to get fees from other from other partners so this is an attempt a
01:38ridiculous attempt by the way by the rgc to alter international law it's not going to pass
01:43and i think that they are trying to prove something to their own people after they have completely
01:48failed them because iran is in shambles and they're and and they don't have no way out of this crisis
01:54and they want to declare victory which is ridiculous as well so i think that we are we are here
01:59in a
01:59situation in which uh they are trying again to extort international community to do to in order to
02:05impose a reality that nobody is going to accept you know it's interesting you're saying that iran is
02:09in a shambles and iran is therefore trying to prove a point to the people we've seen polls actually
02:14that have taken place including in israel we seem to suggest many israelis believe that iran has
02:19actually won the war and that the united states conceded way too much to uh to iran in that
02:25memorandum of understanding so it's either that iran is asserting its right or as you're claiming
02:30that iran is trying to a desperate iran is trying to prove a point to the people do you accept
02:34that
02:35iran what the iran's iran narrative is that we've actually won the war and that the americans are
02:41being forced to make concessions as are the israelis let's look at the facts the facts are
02:45that we have managed to remove two existential threats the looming on israel the military nuclear
02:50threat and the ballistic missile threat we destroyed their industry their military was destroyed
02:54including their air force and their navy so what we have here is a ceasefire that actually was agreed
03:03upon by the united states in order to give a chance to negotiations to stabilize the energy markets
03:07but it doesn't change the balance the military balance of power when it comes to the military
03:12balance of power iran is debilitated significantly now they're having this narrative of victory okay
03:19but it's it's it's propaganda so at the end of the day you have to you know some people were
03:24disappointed that we haven't managed so far to leverage the military gain into an iranian acceptance
03:32of the terms that we want to push forward that means removing the fissile material out of iran stopping
03:40iranian support for proxies okay and and putting a cap on the ballistic missile program so that
03:46is yet to be achieved and that's why some people had the sense that actually we are not winning but
03:53it is very clear that we have removed these threats that now we are much more secure because our
03:59communities both in the north and in the south are safe and if iran decides to attack us again we
04:05are ready for that we know if you're saying you're much more secure than what is the need for example
04:09for israel to continue acts of aggression against the hezbollah in southern lebanon to refuse to
04:15withdraw from southern lebanon if you're saying that the proxies have been eliminated israel has been
04:20significantly demilitarized what there why then should israel continue with aggressive action uh in
04:26southern lebanon rajiv we have a framework with the government of lebanon we have a common interest
04:32with lebanon that is to restore lebanese sovereignty in lebanon to which we don't have any territorial claims
04:39but that has to lead to dismantlement of hezbollah because hezbollah actually has built a huge
04:45infrastructure in south lebanon to attack israel so we are there until the moment that the lebanese
04:50government will be able to actually dismantle that capability we started a pilot program
04:56that will allow the lebanese armed forces to enter gradually into south lebanon so we are on a path
05:02to peace with lebanon but iran is still trying to call the shots it's not going to work so is
05:06is is
05:07is israel going to decide uh which is that moment when you believe that it is the right moment to
05:12withdraw from southern lebanon because the defense minister your defense minister mr katz has threatened
05:17to assassinate mochdava khamelein he said southern lebanon would become gaza and that the israeli army
05:23will apply the rafa model of conquest there i mean it almost seems as if israel is pursuing its own
05:30path that it believes irrespective of what iran and the united states decide in the mou israel is
05:36going to go ahead in southern lebanon do what israel believes is in your interest well first of all
05:40every country does what it believes in its own interest but assassination of let's look at the
05:46facts yes we have a path to peace that has been agreed upon with the legitimately elected
05:54democratically elected government of lebanon this is an historic event okay and we are in south lebanon
06:01right now with the consent of that government because they have realized at this point that
06:07they cannot dismantle hezvala so we have to do it in a coordinated way and we are going to do
06:12it
06:13with the support of the united states and other countries because at the end of the day we know
06:17that israelis and lebanese are interested in peace free from the agenda that tehran is going is trying
06:23to impose and create a perpetual war being launched from lebanon against israel nobody's interested in
06:31that and finally we have achieved that we have dismantled when the minister katz spoke about the
06:37gaza model what he said is that we are dismantling the infrastructure all the buildings
06:41including uh villages that were transformed into military outposts so we are destroying those
06:48that's the gaza model who wants a perpetual war the iranians and their militias or the israelis
06:56who want to exercise regional dominance because one narrative one narrative that is playing out
07:00mr ambassador is that benjamin netanyahu faces a crucial election in october he cannot be seen to give
07:06an inch of concession to any uh to to iran or lebanon or the hezbollah in any form and therefore
07:13wants to continue this war in fact there were reports that there was this angry exchange between
07:19donald trump and and prime minister netanyahu where donald trump was asking netanyahu to back off and the
07:24israelis did not want to back off so in a sense is it in israel's interest to continue this war
07:31until your election because the prime minister wants to get re-elected you cannot play politics
07:35with israel security it's not the system is embedded in the way in which the security apparatus the idf
07:44the secret services etc they give their recommendations to the government and that's pretty transparent no
07:50no government in israel can go to war in a democracy you cannot go to war uh for political motivation
07:55that that's that's complete nonsense not only that that we have as i told you before we don't have
08:01territorial aspirations in lebanon we are ready even to withdraw from gaza if hamas is dismantled
08:07this is the implementation of the 20-point plan of president trump so israel has a record of being
08:13willing to uh to maintain the international border and the only reason that we have changed that tactic
08:19is because we were attacked on the 7th of october and we were attacked by hezbollah on the 8th of
08:24october
08:24sabat you continue with your acts of aggression in gaza uh the fact is only yesterday uh we had at
08:31least half a dozen uh palestinians being killed including a nine-year-old uh in a displacement camp
08:38in central gaza so the attacks continue the aerial bombardment continues the gunfire continues there
08:43have been instances of settlers who have targeted palestinians so the war it seems has not got over
08:49as far as israel is first of all the the intensive uh warfare part is over because we are we
08:56are not
08:56having at this point uh intensively wide military half a dozen people died only yesterday sir half a
09:02dozen palestinians were killed in israeli action only yesterday okay let me elaborate we are not in a
09:09stage of massive military operations what we are doing is that we are pinpointedly attacking
09:15hamas militants okay i must remind you that hamas has the tactic of hiding behind civilians how does
09:22a nine-year-old become a hamas uh militant sir well i you know if unfortunately civilians die this is
09:30something that we investigate and we try to avoid but uh the the the fact of the matter is is
09:37that we are
09:38targeting hamas operatives okay sometimes hamas operatives uh go around uh civilians we have
09:45seen that they are controlling the entire hospital system in gaza for example and they torture palestinians
09:51in those hospitals that they control they have their headquarters there it's very difficult to deal
09:56with these terrorists because they're hiding behind civilians it's this is not news it's happening all the
10:00time but we are going to continue defending ourselves until we see the 20-point plan implemented and
10:08that requires hamas dismantlement i'm going to come back to to the situation in in in gaza in a moment
10:15but
10:15i want to still focus on what is the immediate issue which is the potential of an expanded conflict
10:22once again in west asia do you see war clouds returning uh to to the region do you see us
10:28returning
10:28back to what we saw in march and april which was continuous bombardment israel and america working
10:34in tandem oil prices uh collapsing as a result the state of hormones being closed and the world on the
10:40edge do you see us returning back to that can netanyahu and donald trump really afford that is
10:46that what you really want that's where i come to do you really want perpetual war till you've established
10:51regional dominance well again you're saying terms that i don't concur with i don't think that israel
10:57trying to establish regional dominance i think that we are trying to defend ourselves from iranian
11:01aggression and this war started by iranian proxies and iran is the party that is trying to do trying
11:08to obtain uh hegemonial uh power in the region and they are proving it again by trying to control the
11:15straits of our moods which is absolutely ridiculous and illegal so as long as iran is trying to do that
11:21and if iran attacks israel israel will defend itself we don't have any interest whatsoever you have to
11:26understand rajdeep israel is at war for three years now this has been the longest war in our history
11:33do you think that israelis want to continue this war no we don't want to do that but we will
11:39do
11:39whatever it takes in order to defend ourselves right now we have achieved stability in israel
11:43you have ben-gurion working with almost 100 000 people flying every day our communities in the south
11:50are safe our communities in the north are safe the only thing we have to do is to implement the
11:54political plans that have been agreed upon with the united states in the international community so
11:58is this only about self-defense or is it when i hear the defense minister of your country say that
12:03we want to take out uh uh most about khamenei how are we that's surely not about self-defense is
12:08it
12:08again about regime change as it was in february it's about deterrence it's about deterrence yes
12:14absolutely these people in tehran have to understand as long as they vow to destroy the state of israel
12:20they are vulnerable every country in the past that has changed their approach
12:24for trying to destroy israel to trying to cooperate with israel we achieved peace
12:29take nasser for example he tried to destroy israel we have peace with egypt in the moment that anwar
12:34sodat said that he wants to make peace with israel we make peace so we are going to do peace
12:40with lebanon
12:40we have no problem whatsoever living together with countries in the region we've done six peace accords
12:46but this regime in tehran doesn't want peace they want regional dominance they want to change the
12:52nature of international navigation it's not going to fly so do you see uh the region going back into
12:57an escalating conflict or do you believe your are you still hopeful that uh that peace will return
13:04we hope very much that we will have peace in our region i think that we had enough of budget
13:09i think
13:10that this regime in tehran has to change its nature as long as the rgc is there they are going
13:16to
13:16try to destabilize and what i think the united states is doing now is uh degrading their capability
13:22to continue throwing havoc in our region and this will continue until the rgc changes approach so
13:29iran israel and the united states are on the same page all this talk of differences between netanyahu
13:34wanting to continue with the bombing of iran versus trump who wants to pull back do you believe that
13:43america and israel are on the same page or not we are completely on the same page when it comes
13:48to
13:48the strategic goals i think that sometimes people get confused because when it comes to tactical measures
13:55there are differences sometimes on timings or motives because the interests of our countries do not
14:00always coincide 100 but i think that we continue this dialogue we continue this effort we have very
14:06good connections uh between prime minister and the president and this cooperation will continue
14:12you know i i said i would come back to gaza because just a few days ago i had uh
14:17justice moore leader
14:18who was leading the u.n independent international commission of inquiry on palestine and the report
14:26said israel had killed at least twenty thousand one seventy nine palestinian children in two years
14:32of the war 44 000 children had been injured estimated 58 000 children had been orphaned and seemed to
14:40suggest that this was war crimes and a genocidal intent by israel as per the report how do you respond
14:47an indian judge heading that report accuses your country of war crimes and genocide well this report
14:54is not independent you know is not impartial i'll tell you why there are at least five biases that are
14:59coming from the so-called human rights council first of all the mandate the mandate is done by a bunch
15:04of
15:05autocracies that is working with uh muslim and arab states to isolate israel to single out israel and
15:11there are it's a machinery of reports that is is completely bogus and is discriminating israel that's
15:16number one number two they choose the these reporters in a very bad uh shape and many of these people
15:23that
15:24are involved have a biased opinion of israel to start with the third bias is that they are taking hamas
15:31information at face value the fourth bias is that they cannot corroborate it because they are not on
15:36the ground and the fifth bias is that they minimize the the the the role of hamas the fact that
15:40hamas
15:41is embedded in hospitals that it's been breaching any code now why didn't israel cooperate with this
15:46commission are you denying these facts about the number of children first of all are you denying all of
15:51that are you saying that justice murlidar was biased why didn't israel appear before the commission
15:55because this commission is biased in all the five ways i told you and we are not going to cooperate
16:00with people that the only aim that they have is to criminalize israel you see this is this is actually
16:08ruining completely the un system the the information dispersed by hamas is quoted by the un is quoted
16:16by al jazeera and the and and these ngos that uh you know are full of hatred of israel and
16:22and they
16:23create uh a reality that is not there are you saying the children have not been killed are you saying
16:28these numbers are fictitious first of all when it comes to the numbers these numbers that hamas has
16:34has published they include the un report they include but they but they lean on the hamas numbers that's
16:41what i'm telling you of course these are not independently verifiable numbers they cannot verify
16:45they are not on the ground so these are hamas numbers that include for example child combatants
16:51that include the fact that they include natural deaths that they include all kinds of things that
16:56actually make this a charade this is not a real and and serious work by an impartial organization they
17:05are tainting the u.n time and again and we shouldn't actually adhere to that look i'll just give you
17:11one
17:11example the number of children that were vaccinated in gaza after the war is higher than the number of
17:18children that was vaccinated before the war if there was a genocide there okay you wouldn't have you
17:23would have less children we've seen awful images of destruction also terrible it's very tragic look war
17:29is very tragic especially in a situation in which hamas uses these tactics look if we would
17:36indiscriminately have bombed gaza you would have at least one million palestinians dead when it comes
17:41to the the the quantity of explosives that we've put in gaza if we would have done it indiscriminately
17:47there would be no gaza you know mr ambassador in conclusion uh as i said the u.s president has
17:55said
17:55the ceasefire is over iran seems to be acting at the moment as if the ceasefire is over
18:00at the same time there are efforts to reach some kind of agreement including on iran's contentious
18:06nuclear program will israel backed any effort that the u.s president now makes to negotiate a
18:13nuclear agreement with iran to get to a negotiated settlement is that your primary goal or till that
18:19october election israel wants to create the impression of war the prime minister of israel has stated very
18:25clearly that we support and we have agreed to the american move to try to get a result through
18:32diplomacy those who have breached the ceasefire are not israel are the iranians the irgc that are
18:39firing at civilian ships at the straits of vermuz so actually has nothing to do with israel
18:45okay so in conclusion broader picture over the last year we've seen thousands dead in gaza and iran over
18:53the last two years a destabilized gulf rising oil prices that are affecting countries like india
18:59the humanitarian crisis that has unfolded is there an exit strategy do you see an end to what we've
19:06been seeing over the last couple of years or are we weaponizing uncertainty and we are in an
19:13increasingly uncertain climate are you hopeful or do you believe things will get worse before they get
19:18better i'm very hopeful i'll tell you why because before the 7th of october we had huge proxy armies
19:25around us armed with hundreds of thousands of missiles and ballistic missiles and terrorists that were
19:30ready to invade our country and now we have been able to significantly debilitate hamas in gaza we have
19:37a buffer zone there we have a buffer zone in lebanon we have a buffer zone in syria in syria
19:41our communities
19:42are safe israel is much stronger uh both militarily and economically and i'm very positive that by
19:50cooperation with the united states and other countries in the region that oppose this kind of iranian
19:56aggression at the end of the day we will be able to debilitate this regime to the extent that they
20:02will
20:02cooperate with diplomacy and with the attempts to restore peace in our region let me leave it there
20:08uh ambassador you've come to the studio again and taken all my questions always good to have you
20:13ruben azar thank you very much the israeli ambassador to india mr ruben azar taking all our questions
Comments