Is Belgium becoming a narco-state? Belgian politicians debate on The Ring

euronews (in English)

Is Belgium becoming a narco-state? Belgian politicians debate on The Ring  Brussels and Antwerp have seen rising drug-related shootings and turf wars among trafficking networks. Has Belgium lost control of the drug issue? Brussels Mayor Philippe Close and conservative opposition politician Mathias Vanden Borre (N-VA) go head-to-head in this edition.  READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2026/07/09/is-belgium-becoming-a-narco-state-belgian-politicians-debate-on-the-ring  Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages

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00:07Hello and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show today, broadcasting from our studio

00:13in Brussels. I'm Stefan Grobe. Thank you for joining us. On The Ring, our debaters go face

00:19to face on some of the biggest issues of the day. Today, on this special edition from the European

00:24Capital, we want to talk about a big problem in Belgium, but not only there. Drugs, crime and what

00:31to do about it. Luis Albertos has more. Belgium's drug problem is centered around one word, Antwerp.

00:44It's home to Europe's second biggest port, one of the continent's main entry points for drugs

00:50from Latin America. Last year, Belgian authorities seized 55 tons of cocaine here, but officials

00:57admit that much larger quantities likely get through, often in hidden shipments of bananas,

01:03frozen food or timber. The problem has become a national security issue. Drug-related violence

01:10has spiked in Antwerp and Brussels, and gangs are even infiltrating parts of public administration

01:15through bribery and intimidation. Has Belgium evolved into a narco-state, as one senior Antwerp

01:23judge warned? Are the many measures taken on a national and local level having any effect?

01:31Well, a lot to unpack here for our contenders, and here they are.

01:38Philippe Clos, the mayor of the city of Brussels for nine years. This politician from the French-speaking

01:44Socialist Party takes a dual-track approach to drug-related problems, being firm on trafficking

01:49while addressing the social issues. He champions supervised drug consumption centers, saying these

01:54offer a solution to tackling the drug problem in Brussels. Taking tough and effective action against

02:00dealers alone is not enough. We must also continue to treat drug addiction as a genuine public health

02:06issue, he says. Matthias van den Borde, a Brussels member of parliament for the Flemish National Party

02:12NVA. He's a former city councilor, primarily responsible for home affairs, including security.

02:18According to him, his love for Brussels is great, which is why solving issues like drug trafficking is

02:23so close to his heart. He believes breaking the business model of criminal organizations is essential

02:29in this fight. By focusing on tracing, freezing and confiscating criminally acquired assets,

02:34we make organized crime less lucrative and dismantle the financial structures, he says.

02:41So let me welcome to the ring Philippe Claus and Matthias van den Borde. Great to have you here.

02:47Good to see you. Are you ready? Yes, ready. Perfect. So, certain Brussels neighborhoods have seen

02:53drug-related violence, including shootings in which bystanders have been injured. Who carries the

03:00greatest responsibility for this situation, Mr. Mayor? First of all, it's always the mayor and the

03:05public authority. We need to give peace in every neighborhood. But first of all, to take the

03:10responsibilities for very important for a politician. And after, we need to find some solution and also

03:17to learn about the cause. Why so many people using drugs? Why there are so many traffics in the street?

03:24And it's true that in Brussels, we are regarding that not only in Brussels, but for all the Belgian territory.

03:31Right. Is Brussels still a safe city? Last year, there were, I think, almost 100 shootings,

03:38which makes Brussels one of the top three cities with the most gun violence in Europe. Marseille,

03:44Napoli, and then you have Brussels, which is very alarming, of course. And this gun violence is

03:49really increasing the last few years. And for me, I think there's still a lack of urgency in Brussels itself,

03:58from maybe the mayors, but also on the regional level, to have a unified, strong response. Also this

04:04year, we see over 30 shootings already happening this year. So there is, I think, more needs to be done,

04:10of course, yes. On what level? It's a local level, there's a federal level, because the drugs come

04:15through the big ports. Yeah, which is one of the biggest assets in Belgium is all ports in Antwerp.

04:20It's true that for the Belgian economy, it's so important, but it's also the principal default,

04:25because 60% of the drugs, cocaine, who comes in the European field, come from the port of Antwerp.

04:32Then we need also to regard what we can do together to shoot this problem together. And I always propose

04:39also that the Brussels Police Department helped the colleagues of Antwerp to help that, because if

04:45the cocaine comes in our territory, we know that they are in the street of Brussels a few days after.

04:51Still, drug-related crime and shootings have become routine. You just mentioned the numbers.

04:58At what point, at what point do politicians have to admit that policy has failed?

05:05But first of all, for me, it's a real problem, because we have this sort of impress that it's

05:10only the police department and justice who can solve this problem. We are always a problem to speak

05:16about health, and why so many people are using drugs. In the past, it's, for example, for heroin,

05:22these people, very poor area, we're using that. But no, the cocaine is everywhere, in every works,

05:27in every culture of the society. There are so many people using drugs, and it's not only the people who

05:33are

05:33poor with a disease problem, health problem, mental problem. And I think we need to work very

05:39strong against the drug traffics, but at the same times, to understand why so many people from our

05:46population using drugs, and how we can find and find an issue to help these people to go out of

05:53the

05:53drugs addiction. What is the most urgent thing here? Is it the social issue, the social aspect? Is it the

05:59the crime aspect? I mean, of course, you need to work on all levels, of course. You need to have

06:04a strong

06:04integrated government to attack these problems. I think this is partly what's lacking also in Brussels.

06:10It's the organization of government is very fragmented. You have 19 mayors. We're standing here with

06:15Philip Close, one of the 19 mayors, but maybe all of these 19 mayors are not really agreeing on the

06:20measures

06:21that should be taken. And to have a unified strong response, of course, you need to have this one

06:27vision of how to tackle these problems socially, but also attack these problems of gun violence.

06:34And for me, this is what is lacking a bit in Brussels, is the structure of Brussels itself as a

06:39capital region

06:41is very fragmented, and which makes response also very fragmented. So if one thing needs to happen,

06:47is that you have to unify strong responses necessary. Speaking of unifying, there are six police

06:55bodies in the city. It's finished. There's going to be one. Is that a measure that will help

07:05increase the security for Brussels? We will see. But if you take, for example,

07:09our colleagues from Antwerp, this is only one police department, only one mayor, will become now our prime minister.

07:15And you know that all the drugs come from the port of Antwerp. Then, you know, unified is maybe one

07:21of

07:21the options. But the best option, I repeat, is first of all collaboration between the different services

07:27on the whole Europe territories. Look what happens in Le Havre, for example. The drugs coming from first

07:34from Rotterdam, then Antwerp, then Le Havre, then you talk about Marseille. And also, I repeat,

07:40only work with the police department and justice and not with the health department. And I have

07:46always impressed that the people are afraid to speak about health and the mental health problem

07:51of a part of our population. For me, it's impossible to win in this fight.

07:55Yeah. I mean, we come to this aspect later. Is Belgium spending enough on police or is it just

08:03spending badly? Well, police needs to be funded on different levels. You have the local police,

08:08which is mostly funded by the local authorities. And this we see in Brussels, maybe Brussels of city or

08:15Brussels is not a bad example, but there are other communities, municipalities, with mayors,

08:20who are really lacking the proper funding of police. We see that the areas where there are

08:26the problems are greatest now, in the south of Brussels, there's a lack of six to eight hundred

08:31police officers in the field. Of course, this is a lack of funding, which firstly needs to be addressed

08:37on the local level. And then you need the help, of course, of the federal level as well with the

08:41federal

08:42police and federal investigative police, federal structures, which needs to be reinforced as well.

08:47But for me, one of the biggest challenges, of course, is to integrate the police on the Brussels level.

08:53Now this is going to happen. This is reform taking place. But then, of course, you need to adjust

08:59the budgets as well. I think the local level, the regional level need to invest more in safety issues,

09:06safety measurements. I think this needs to be a priority. You know that now, since a few days,

09:11we have only one police department for Brussels, with among 7,000 police agents.

09:18But around Brussels, just 100 meters at the border of Brussels, there are some police departments of

09:2550 police agents. It's ridiculous. I propose that this police department, around Brussels,

09:32work with us in the same zone. Because the border of the city, for the drug traffic, this is nonsense.

09:37Of course. And more collaboration. Federal level for all the big inquiries and the local

09:42level with more integrated policy departments. But I know that in Brussels and Belgium, there are

09:49always people who resist to work with Brussels. It's very strange because we are the other assets

09:55of this country, Brussels, like I speak about the port of Antwerp. And I'm sure that the more we

10:01integrate it, the more we work together, it's better for our population.

10:05Andreas, are you resisting working with Brussels? I think it's a bit contradictory. Brussels never

10:11really wants to integrate their own police force. And now they're asking to integrate other police

10:15forces. I think the main challenge right now is to do it. I think the main challenge right now is

10:21to

10:21integrate and have a fully operational police force for the whole of Brussels, with unified policies

10:27regarding drug trafficking and gun violence, etc. This is a major challenge right now for Brussels.

10:33And I urge the mayor, because he will be head of this police force, to really take up this

10:38responsibility and to have a unified response. And then, of course, you need to cooperate also with

10:44Bart de Wever. He was also mentioned, our prime minister, because he acknowledges the problem as

10:49the mayor of Antwerp, but also as a prime minister. He's clearly stating that this is almost becoming an

10:56existential threat, the gun violence and the drugs trade. And he's really trying to, on a national

11:01level, on an international level, putting this higher on the agenda. And in this way, I hope we can

11:06cooperate.

11:06Okay. Quick response?

11:08My quick response, I repeat, we need to work also about public health. I repeat, only police department

11:14and justice department is not enough. I think in Europe, we have a good example is what it happens

11:19in Portugal. I have meeting with Antonio Costa, our president of the council, the European council,

11:24to say, okay, how can we also manage this so huge challenge? And I repeat, so many people using drugs

11:33and why they're using drugs. And we have also the expertise of a lot of medics, psychologists,

11:39all the people who try to help the politics to build another policy about drugs. And it's not a debate

11:45about the legalization and all this motto that if you want to talk about health, it's because you want

11:51legalization. You know, I want to find an issue. And also when I speak with the police department,

11:56they say, okay, we are police agents and the justice department does the same. We can fight

12:00against drugs traffic. But to convince all the people, the people to stop with drugs,

12:05is another question. It is not the police department.

12:08I need to stop you here. Thank you very much for this first round.

12:11I think we're just getting warmed up here and now it's time for gloves off.

12:21In this segment, we want our guests to ask each other questions and challenge each other directly.

12:27I'm going to start with Matthias. Do you have a question for the mayor?

12:33Many questions. But can you, for example, name one policy which you implemented yourself,

12:40which helped the security of our neighborhoods here in Brussels?

12:43Yeah. For example, we have a lot of problems of mental disease in Brussels, in the field. And the justice

12:49said, okay, these people are drugs addicts, but there's not regarding the justice that we call

12:56the EMUT program. We build it with the federal government and the police departments. And we are

13:01not psychologists. And the goal is to also say that the police department that we reinforce against

13:08the drugs traffic and the drugs traffickers first. But for the people who are in drugs addiction,

13:14they are another solution. And we work with the different hospitals of the city to link

13:20police departments and health departments. It's for me very, very important always to do this sort of

13:27cross board between the different public services. Okay. Your question to your opponent?

13:33I think, Matthias, you know that collaboration and work together is maybe the only issue. And it's

13:40true that I'm a little bit provocative when I say that, okay, we can do a big police department

13:47with the border outside of Brussels. But I think that you have a special role, your party,

13:52with all these municipalities at the border of Brussels to convince them, okay, one police department,

13:58I know, is very difficult, but to integrate a sort of task force together, to work together for

14:04the welfare of the population. Yes. I think this is on a federal level,

14:10there's now projects being formed to unify police zones. And as you know, it's voluntarily.

14:17So I think... Except for Brussels. Except for Brussels, of course, which is implemented.

14:22But I think this is the challenges that some communities are facing right now to fill their annually

14:28budgets for the police force. And I think this is an exercise that will happen in the next few years.

14:34And how exactly, which forms, which zones will you be unified? I don't know. Of course, this is

14:38for the mayors and the local level to decide. But I think this evolution will take place. Yes.

14:44Okay. Question for him? Another question maybe is, how do you see the further cooperation with your

14:49other mayors? Of course, you're one of the 19 mayors. You also have a minister-president. And how do you

14:55see this

14:58to better unify, to have a stronger response as a whole, with your cooperation with the other mayors

15:05and minister-presidents? I think all the mayors are very concerned about that. And the federal law

15:11decide that it's the mayor we need to lead the police department. We have in collaboration with the

15:16minister-president, whether it's a level of the region. There is more to give a sort of help to this

15:25this new form of police department. But I'm very positive. I'm saying, first of all,

15:31is a sort of state of mind. If we want to succeed, I'm very sure that we can do it.

15:37And now, okay,

15:38that's not the law that we expect. Everybody knows about that. But we respect the law. And now,

15:44we build this new police department together. And I hope and I'm sure that for the best welfare of

15:50the population, that is going to be a success. What makes this topic so relevant and so important,

15:55that it's not only Brussels, Antwerp, Belgium. This is the major hub because you're close to all the

16:01important markets, the Dutch, the Germans, the French around you. What about European cooperation?

16:07Yes. I think for the Europeans, it's very important, but not only Europeans, it's a world cooperation

16:13because you know that the large part of the cocaine was made in South America, that we need also this

16:19contact with South America. But I repeat, war against drugs, only with police department,

16:25that's not enough. Okay. We need also to share the experience of other countries, I repeat, like Portugal,

16:31about the health public department who can help all the drugs. Okay. And now your question,

16:38your last question to Mathieu. But I think what we need to do with the drugs is also a big

16:43conference

16:44when we stop with the motto and all the slogans and all the people say, I do that better than

16:50you.

16:50Do you have the feeling that our prime minister is from your party, not from mine,

16:54is ready to organize a big conference with all the people who are leading local level,

17:02regional level, federal level, to try to build together a Belgian policy about fighting drugs?

17:11I think he's very open to the suggestion. I think you will know him personally as well,

17:15as you have contacted him and also publicly he's very outspoken in this war on drugs. As a mayor,

17:21but also on a federal level as a prime minister, he has opened a task force which has integrated all

17:28the different ministers who have also, for example, in healthcare policies which are implemented and

17:34also have a role to play and is really trying to move forward. So if there is a question maybe

17:39from

17:39Brussels to cooperate or to have issues and to debate them on a national level, I think there always is

17:45a possibility. All right. Well, we have heard the views from our guests. Now it's time to

17:51introduce a new voice.

17:57And I would like to bring in Belgium's Drugs Commissioner Iné van Wiemers, who spoke about

18:02the social aspect of Belgium's drug problem. She said this,

18:06We cannot expect the military in the streets to solve the root causes of this problem. We know that

18:12we have to develop an educational policy and poverty policy. We need to get people back to work. We

18:18really have to raise the quality of life in our city. Does she have a point here?

18:24I think it's the best woman at the best place. Iné do very good jobs. He was formed also in

18:31Brussels and

18:33the Justice Department. We work also in the Police Department of Brussels. And Iné van Wiemers is very,

18:39very realistic. And Trey also to make collaboration with all the people. And I repeat, drugs is not only for

18:48the police department. She speaks about education, about poverty, about what we can do together.

18:54She also speaks about military in the streets. That is an interesting aspect.

18:58Military, it exists.

18:59It exists, but does it help?

19:01Well, the main focus on military in the streets was first the security of public buildings,

19:07which were under threat. Jewish synagogues, also public buildings in EU quarters, etc. Of course,

19:13they will never solve the drug problem as a whole. That is not their purpose, to have them patrol in

19:19the streets. You need to have other measures as well, police measures, but also other health care measures,

19:24etc., to have a whole-of-government approach. And in this way, I agree with our drug commissioner.

19:31She compared it to an iceberg. I mean, the violence is at the top of the iceberg, very visible.

19:37But you need to increase the temperature to make the iceberg melt. And then, of course,

19:42you need to work on poverty issues, safety issues, homelessness, etc.

19:46All right, let's take a break. Here on The Ring, we'll be back with more after this. Don't go away.

20:00Welcome back to this special edition of The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show. I'm Stefan Grob,

20:06and I'm joined by Philipp Klos, the mayor of the city of Brussels, and Matthias Vandenbaure from the opposition NVA

20:12party.

20:13We have data here from the Belgian Public Health Institute using wastewater measurements that show

20:19that during weekends, the amount of cocaine found in this water is significantly higher.

20:25This was especially the case in Namur, Liège, and Brussels South. The difference between weekends and weekdays

20:33was in some cases as high as 90%, indicating use almost doubled. Matthias, is this a surprise for you?

20:44I think the drug use in general and cocaine, it's almost everywhere integrated in our society,

20:52but we cannot really normalize it. Even though we know that it's readily available,

20:57we still need to consider it as a problem drug, I think.

21:00But you're talking obviously about nightlife, right? Yeah, yeah.

21:03Maybe in higher circles?

21:05But you know something I heard that the highest level of cocaine in the water is in this neighborhood,

21:12in the European neighborhood. It is not only against...

21:15But this is dead on weekends here, right?

21:16And this is during the week. And in the water, we learn that because they can also study well in

21:25which part of the city.

21:27And it's true that it's in the south of Brussels, which is the rich part of Brussels,

21:31and here in the European area. Then also, I always say to the European responsible person,

21:38that be careful. It's also a large part of people walking because the work is so hard.

21:42They're using drugs not only to be fun, to go party or something like that, but because they need drugs

21:49to work.

21:49And that's a real problem for me. More and more people using drugs only because they need the drugs they

21:56need between...

21:57Should that type of consumer face harsher penalties?

22:01I think you need to responsabilize the drug use as well. I mean, this is part of the integrated approach.

22:07I mean, you have to focus on the gun violence, of course, and the gangs,

22:10and you need to attack also the middle and the higher management, and the trades, the money, and all those

22:15measures.

22:15But then, in a way, you need to also responsabilize the users. And this is what Barthe Weaver also is

22:20saying in Antwerp,

22:22and in his fight against drugs, that it's not really so innocent to use drugs yourself, because you're really compliant,

22:30or a part of this whole scheme. And the real drug violence originates in the South of America with all

22:39the extreme gun violence.

22:41And in a way, as an end user, you're a part of this. For example, if you compare it to

22:46the trade of clothing,

22:49when it's really made in an unsanitary way, or with child labor, etc., people will say,

22:56okay, we won't buy this anymore. But I think you need to say the same about drugs. I mean,

23:00you're part of this very disorganized crime, in a way.

23:04I want to bring up against the educational aspect, and you alluded to that earlier.

23:09Now, drugs, it's an old problem, right? And even when I was in school, many years ago,

23:16I was told that drugs are bad. Why is that system failing? If we see that drugs are among youngsters,

23:27use of drugs is increasing. Remember in the year 80s, because there was a slogan, a motto,

23:32in the United States, who said, just say no. But that's not enough. Just say no. Remember,

23:37it's Nancy Reagan, who say that. Just say no is not enough. If you want to educate someone,

23:42you need to explain, to find the issue, why so many people are using that.

23:47So why is that not happening enough? But because the people

23:49doesn't want to pick up on public health. They say, okay, we ask at the police department to solve

23:54this problem. I repeat, when I ask to the youth people, why are you using drugs? It's because it's

24:00cheaper than to pay a cocktail. I want to be high. I want to go to a party. Then there's

24:05MDMA,

24:05cocaine, ecstasy. Then I'm using that because I want to be high. And it's cheaper than to take

24:12a cocktail. That's a real big problem. And we need to, if you want an education program,

24:18first of all, politicians need to accept that we need to educate people with the drugs,

24:23not for the people using drugs, but also because we need to learn about the different addiction.

24:29All right. Now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.

24:37And here we want to do something different. I'm going to ask you a set of questions and you can

24:42only answer with yes or no. Most guests do that. Impossible for a question.

24:47Maybe. Okay. Maybe not. So the first one is for you. Has Belgium lost control of the drug issue?

24:55No. Not yet. Okay. Is Brussels less safe than it was five years ago? Yes. No.

25:05Does Belgium need tougher sentencing laws, tougher punishments?

25:10Dutch Punifman. Yes. Yes. Should combating drug trafficking become Belgium's number one security priority?

25:22Top five. Yes. Top three. Yeah. Yes. Same answer. Yeah. Okay. Police complain they arrest suspects

25:30only to see them released days later. Is Belgium's justice system broken? No.

25:36No. Yes. In that way, yes. Is there simply too little fear of punishment in Belgium today?

25:44Yes. Against the deterrence? No. Should Belgium legalize some drugs to undercut criminal networks?

25:52Yes. No. Is corruption linked to drug trafficking now one of Belgium's biggest internal threats?

26:00Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. That word of the narco state by that judge? I think we are not a narco

26:08state,

26:08but corruption exists, depends also on drugs. Do you trust your opponent's party to solve

26:13this crisis? No. Yes. All right. Was there anything your opponent said over the past half hour that you

26:22agree with? For sure. I'm sure. You know in Belgium you are not agree alone. It's always the same.

26:28That's what we love about this country. Yeah. Yes. What was it? I think I know Philip Glose as a

26:36social

26:36Democrat and his policies. I think as a mayor, he tries to be tough on law and tough on police.

26:44And I think this

26:45is very public about it. And in many ways today I heard the same. So I agree with that. Yes.

26:51Okay.

26:51One word to... But I'm sure Matthias is always ready always to build a bridge between Brussels and other

26:58levels to convince also the level that Brussels is not only a hellhole, as Trent says, but there are always

27:05issues that we can build together. Okay. Fantastic. On that note, this final answer brings us to the end of

27:11the

27:12special edition of The Ring. Thanks again to Philipp Glose. Thank you very much. Matthias

27:15Vandenbauer for a lively conversation. Thanks to our audience at home. If you like, you can continue

27:20the conversation by sending us your comments to theringateuronews.com. We'd love to have your

27:26feedback. That's it for today. I'm Stefan Grobe. Take care and see you soon on Euronews.

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