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This episode features a look into voter turnout dynamics, localized seat battles, and the federal implications of Barisan Nasional’s high-stakes decision to contest the 11 July polls solo.
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00:05Today is July 2nd and it's six day into the Johor Pulse. Today we have Ajang Professor from
00:13Telus University, Ong Kian Meng. Thanks for coming and then great to listen to your insight especially
00:19with your data. Yeah thanks so much Philip for having me here. Haven't been to the star office
00:24in a while but you know I was back here recently to give a briefing and then great to be
00:28able to
00:29record this podcast with you. Okay thanks. I'll ask you the most important question. First question is
00:36what's your prediction for the World Cup? Who will win it? I have a soft spot for England so I
00:42know
00:42even though I'll be disappointed but I hope that this time is really coming home. Okay you know
00:48that yeah you know I used to be an England fan and every time disappointed. Yeah then after I gave
00:55up
00:55after 20 years or something like that. It's okay lah I pay more attention to what's happening in
01:00Malaysian politics than what's happening on the football pitch. Okay. The Johor Menteri Besar he called for an early
01:07election and he's going for going solo in all the 56 seats. Okay so as a data person what's your
01:19assessment of
01:20his decision? This is not so much based on data but I think based on the sentiment that he is
01:28a popular
01:28Menteri Besar and that given the fact that the Johor State elections needs to be held probably by the end
01:35of
01:36the year anyways you know I think he made a very astute decision to have it earlier and to use
01:43this as some sort of a
01:45temperature check in terms of his own popularity the popularity of Barisan National in Johor and also
01:51you know try to see whether this can lead to other developments within the larger Malaysian ecosystem
01:59political ecosystem. Okay this maybe you expected it but maybe the men in the street they didn't expect it
02:08it is full-blown fight between BN and PH which is in the same federal government. Yes. How do you
02:16think that
02:16the ordinary people see this and how do you how will it impact the Madani government? Okay I don't really
02:25think that the average man on the street pays too much attention in terms of the individual attacks
02:33because face it most people don't play pay as close attention to politics as we do they are
02:40more worried about you know football you know the cost of living the price of petrol you know how
02:46crowded it is for those people who are in Johor Baru to go to Singapore and back right so I
02:51think those are more
02:52existential problems for people but that being said I think the tone was set at the Pakatan Harapan
03:00convention in Johor where BN already announced that they were going solo which was expected given
03:08the fact that there wasn't any indication that BN was going to work together with PH in the state
03:13elections right yes and then in that in that Pakatan Harapan convention there were a lot of things that
03:20were said by Pakatan Harapan leaders that were you know it's open attack on on on BN on on Hafiz
03:30and I think that started the whole ball rolling and then on Hafiz felt that he had to respond he
03:35said
03:35things like I wouldn't want to be in a government together with the DAP and then that also turned
03:41out to have another rhetoric to say that this does it mean that he's anti-chinese and then BN came
03:47back
03:47to say that since when the DAP represent the Chinese only since when was it a Chinese
03:53party only right now you know there's other parties out there that represents you know different
03:58segments of the community right so I think that kind of back and forth I think makes it very difficult
04:03number one for a BN to ever think about asking PH to be part of the state government in Johor
04:09and more
04:10importantly I think it would make it very difficult for BN if let's say it were to be invited to
04:17take
04:18the leadership at the prime minister level after the election results in the next general election
04:23it would be hard for BN to to invite PH to join the federal government and then the third thing
04:29and
04:30of course I'm moving ahead is that it may expedite the process by which the general elections may have to
04:38be called if let's say the situation in cabinet becomes very untenable because of the tensions
04:43between uh BN and PH specifically DAP okay just asking for scale in terms of this BN PH uh tension
04:53I call it tension in because of this Johor election just say one is mild 10 is very high
05:00uh or very very very hot it's where where do you put it I would say currently it's around a
05:08seven uh
05:09but maybe next week it may increase to eight and then during the Negeri Sembilan elections and in the
05:17aftermath of that it may go up to nine okay I'll ask you a man on the street kind of
05:21question is this
05:22just politics is just wayang only that you know tension but in the end you know like what they say
05:27in
05:28parliament you used to be an MP in parliament it seems what I'm told you all are fighting against
05:33your opponent in parliament but in the lobby you are uh drinking tea with them so is this just wayang
05:39to win votes or is there real cracks in this madani government I I think at the end of the
05:47day politics
05:48is about self-interest self-interest for yourself as a candidate self-interest for your party self-interest
05:55for your coalition uh and even if let's say after the elections there can be still cordial
06:03relationship between different members of the cabinet uh in BN as well as in PH uh I think if
06:11let's say your campaign uh is structured in such a way as to say okay I'm not going to vote
06:16with uh
06:16work with one side uh and your voters take that as face value then and and if let's say that
06:23benefits
06:23you there's no reason why you would want to have political cooperation because it doesn't win you
06:29any uh additional seats uh so that's that's where I think I will contextualize the relationship between
06:36BN and and PH on the other hand you look at what PASS is doing yes I wanted to ask
06:43you so you know
06:44PASS is I think trying to do a very strategic move in terms of wanting to show that it can
06:48work together with
06:49uh BN uh and in that context if let's say that strategy works for BN then it may lead to
06:57other
06:57things that would be beneficial for both sides in the run-up to the general elections okay is PASS
07:04showing that they are supporting BN or is there a behind the scene there's a secret pact between
07:11PASS and UMNO that is uh brokered by they say Wawasan uh I think optionality is something that all
07:20parties like right now of course uh some sometimes some options are cut off uh from certain parties out
07:27of the action of their own leaders uh but for PASS uh I think is a clear rift with Bersatu
07:33yes uh you know
07:35Wawasan has been invited in uh and I think this is a prelude towards other modalities of
07:43cooperation and and maybe even friendly competition in the run-up to the next general election
07:48so you may imagine a situation where I don't think PASS will say okay I'm going to have uh no
07:55contest in
07:56all the seats that BN contest in because that doesn't make sense similarly for BN uh you know uh you
08:01know
08:01in terms of working with PASS as well uh I don't think they will avoid multi corner fights but what
08:06may happen is that okay for certain seats where I acknowledge that you have a stronger candidate
08:11you have a stronger incumbent uh I may uh give way to you and then in exchange you do the
08:17same for me
08:17in certain seats where I am strong so you know similar kind of modalities and I think it still needs
08:23to be worked out we will have another window another test case in Negeri Sembilan to see whether or not
08:28let's say I'm no response by saying okay some seats where you know let's say PASS is an incumbent
08:33I will uh allow PASS to contest in those seats without a BN candidate so this is the kind of
08:40uh
08:41uh you know domestic political uh maneuvering that we will see more of in the run-up to the next
08:47general election okay so from my understanding it still acts it's like it's a dating process la they're
08:54exploring uh the inclination or the limits or what between UMNO and PASS since since you you bring up
09:01this uh dating analogy uh I would say that BN and PH are heading towards a divorce
09:07BN and PH are heading towards a divorce uh and then uh I think uh BN and PASS uh they
09:15are you know maybe
09:17before the dating process uh just uh trying to size each other up uh and then for uh PASS and
09:23BERSATU
09:24heading towards a divorce from my understanding from talking to uh politician at the other side what
09:32I'm when you say the other side what do you mean oh yeah nowadays uh okay I got a lot
09:35of sorry sorry
09:36I only see it as uh very simple uh before before this JB thing mine was one side was the
09:42Madani
09:42government and the other side is opposition opposition uh in peninsula malaysia so the other
09:48side when I was talking to the other side that is the opposition what they told me is they at
09:54the
09:54moment they just want to have a pack the one that the who will be pm is belakang kira it
09:59is on that night
10:01and plus the decision is not theirs also correct it depends on certain uh factors and then a person can
10:08become pm so it looks like the self-interest has nothing to do with the whether that person can
10:14become pm or not it's more like how many seats we can win and it's actually a number games I
10:21see and
10:21then I think the other side just say for UMNO they feel that they will get most more seats from
10:28a
10:28particular uh electoral pact so maybe it's not the it's not pm pm is I think it's big question mark
10:36and then uh yeah but the the self-interest part would be in terms of the self-interest of the
10:44parties
10:45and the individual leaders who are within the party so for past I think it will be having access to
10:49the
10:49federal government that would be the priority so they will want to be in a position where they can work
10:54with whoever can form government with them so that they can have access to federal positions
10:59I think the for BN the game is different because they've always had access except for a very short
11:04period of time to the federal government right so then the question would be how can we have a situation
11:10where we would be able to do better than what we did after GE60 right and the first step would
11:16be
11:16win more seats maybe even win more seats compared to pass and then use that as a bargaining tool to
11:22see
11:22what can develop after that leading to uh my own uh you know uh hypothesis okay we go back to
11:29Johor
11:30okay what are the key themes or issues that you see uh now we are into six the sixth day
11:37yeah what what
11:38what do you see uh I think BN has the momentum uh and you know rightly so because they are
11:45the incumbent
11:46state government uh they've also released their manifesto uh and two days after uh if i'm not
11:52mistaken two days after the campaign started and it's something that they've been preparing for for
11:58quite some time uh they definitely mobilized the resources of the state government to get uh probably
12:04consultants to prepare based on the track record of on hafiz uh and generally speaking i think the the
12:11campaign narrative is one that's positive uh trying to bring joeho forward um on the other hand when i
12:17see the ph campaign and and i've given some time to to you know for ph to menampil ke depan
12:24to show
12:25itself uh i've actually not seen anything very new or positive or progressive so for example has ph
12:34released their manifesto for the state government if let's say they or for the state uh you know i thought
12:39they said they will do it soon yes but philip you've been covering elections for far longer than
12:45than me um if you release the manifesto let's say this weekend you have one one week of campaigning
12:53to go do you think the message can go down to the ground uh do you think you can even
12:58communicate what
12:59is the content of the manifesto to your own candidates you know i've been in that situation before uh and
13:04this was what happened in 2022 when they cobbled together the manifesto at the last minute
13:11uh had a ph uh kind of a meeting where this manifesto was revealed and nobody remembers what
13:18it's about yeah right so to me this is clearly a missed opportunity and also a reflection of uh the
13:25capability of the of ph at the state level remember all this while you have ministers deputy ministers
13:34from johor itself from pkr from dap you know from uh you know some leaders from amana
13:41but they've never managed to mobilize those kinds of resources those kinds of um know-how to translate
13:49into something as simple as a manifesto right so so to me i mean it's it's uh you know one
13:54one big
13:54blank mark um that may not matter to the man on the street uh but i think in a situation
14:00where
14:00bn already has that advantage it is a it is a glaring gap that not just people in johor would
14:10observe but people in other parts of the country that are observing political developments would take
14:16note of yeah but some people say that uh i think dr m i think manifesto bukan kitab yeah so
14:23yeah but but
14:24i think in a in a context where people are looking for leadership people are looking for narrative
14:28people are looking okay uh you know you are you you have governed at the federal level uh if let's
14:35say you want to make progress in the state level you know and you can't say oh i want to
14:39be uh i only
14:40want to be a strong opposition in the state i mean that that that is not uh you know what
14:44people are
14:45expecting from pakatan harapan they want a credible alternative to the barisan national to govern the state
14:50right so in that context i think this becomes an issue where i think people will pay attention to
14:55so so that's number one i think second thing is um what i've noticed in the first week of campaigning
15:00uh and i i may get in trouble with some of my party leaders for this uh is that okay
15:06on hafiz is the
15:08poster boy for barisan national uh in terms of in terms of the campaign for barisan national um
15:15um who do you think so far is the poster boy for pakatan harapan okay i answered that question
15:21for me when you look at it the way he behave and then he's like taking things like like like
15:29i think it's musli ah okay okay musli yeah yeah when you look at him at uh wang saputri isn't
15:37it
15:37uh yeah yeah he looks like he's the candidate i mean he's the only one monon jol although when you
15:44look at
15:45it it looks like the past guy it's not not the past guy the amana guy is supposed to be
15:49no huda yes
15:51but he's not even contesting in the city that's the that's the that's the ph chief yeah that's
15:57the setting for him but for me the answer is him but whether he i think they've managed to box
16:03him
16:04actually into a caricature caricature yes so he doesn't i think yeah i think he's the poster boy but
16:11i yeah but just that the messaging is not there but there is no announcement on the part of ph
16:16that
16:16he is the mb designate or the mb candidate and the reason is because i mean i'm speculating from
16:21my experience in pakatan harapan is that there is no consensus in terms of who will be the mb mb
16:27candidate for for pakatan harapan uh for this kind of big decisions you need to have uh pakatan
16:33harapan in johor agree and then bring it up to the uh you know majlis tinggi uh in in at
16:39the federal
16:40level and i don't think they can agree and i think in in the six days of campaigning uh you
16:46know i'm
16:47not quite sure musli is a friend but i'm not quite sure what his his main trust of his campaign
16:51he's
16:51been criticized for example driving in his car uh saying that the road is bumpy and how come you know
16:57the the state government didn't fix it and then yeah it was called he was called out uh people are
17:01saying that the road is actually a federal road right so you know when you have these kinds of
17:05things dominating your own uh narrative in the state seat that you're contesting in it doesn't
17:11give people confidence that you are the mb designate uh i would throw throw one suggestion to you
17:17which is other than masli and also on hafiz there's another personality that is featured quite strongly in
17:25this elections uh who is the second poster boy for barisan national can you guess who this second
17:31poster boy is that's a very good question it did appear in my didn't appear in your radar right yeah
17:37uh i will propose to you uh and maybe to the listeners this is interesting the second poster boy for
17:43barisan national is none other than na ko ming
17:49oh you're talking about poster boy yes yes poster boy in this in the sense that he's
17:54being featured in a lot of bn posters on facebook and other social media okay why um
18:02he gave a interview at oriental daily uh i think it was you know around the time when when the
18:08state uh
18:08you know the state assembly was going to be was already dissolved and uh going to hold the state
18:13elections he said uh and this was the one that was reported very widely he said that uh if bn
18:19wins big
18:19and if najib is freed i will resign right uh so that was the headline coming up from that that
18:25interview so then that gave the opening for barisan national leaders to come out to say okay
18:32lah uh we make sure that uh bn wins big so that he can resign yeah but there's a qualifier
18:38isn't it
18:38there's a second if najib is out correct but uh barisan national leaders i think very um cleverly
18:47uh uh downplay the najib yes because they know uh and and and you know this is not my opinion
18:55i
18:55think this is no this is quite widely held even among the dap leaders uh that wabing doesn't
19:02necessarily have a very high level of support among the malay voters in fact uh you know you can look
19:08at ura you can look at the things that he said before uh he is a lightning rod among malay
19:13voters
19:13and the bn leaders know this that's why tok mat came out to say okay lah uh kalau macam
19:19begitu uh boleh letak jawatan segera he can resign uh very soon right uh and and that has been played
19:25out uh in in a lot of the social media posting uh these are eric sito lim cnc and uh
19:31other leaders
19:32that i see as well uh other people other cyber troopers and whatnot so then that has uh in fact
19:38dominated a lot of the narrative probably overcome some of the good work that anthony look is trying
19:44to do talking about connectivity from the the train perspective to johorbaru kluang gemas even
19:51talking about the segamat inland port and things like that i mean those are i think good development
19:56ideas but then sadly this new narrative comes out uh okay we want to uh have a good elections
20:03campaign so that we can make sure that ngakoming resigns uh as a cabinet yeah that's interesting
20:07i want to ask you um in terms of social media the i just noticed that i've been fed with
20:14so many
20:15bersama uh it's very yellow my when whenever i go through tiktok or even uh facebook reel so it feels
20:22like they're quite dominant so they they're con they have 15 candidates and then they're very new
20:28less than just say 50 days what do you think of their chances in this so i think for bersama
20:37joho is not really that important i think they will probably focus more resources in negeri sembilan
20:42you know because it's closer to the clang valley joho is just a test case the reason why i think
20:48you're
20:48seeing a lot of those advertisements is because of rafi z ramley's own background you know hitting
20:54invoke and knowing that certain resources can be deployed online if let's say your ground game is
21:00not that strong i think that the challenge with bersama is if let's say uh they perform very poorly
21:07in joho to what extent will it affect yes the confidence of people who are supporting them
21:13for the elections in negeri sembilan right and if let's say even if let's say negeri sembilan they
21:20do slightly better because of the clang valley effect but the slightly better part is such that
21:25uh they do well but they do well but not enough to win any seats but they take away enough
21:31votes from
21:32pki and dap so that um some of these candidates may end up losing to bn right and then the
21:39whole
21:39narrative about them being a spoiler uh you know that is uh not good for ph and benefiting bn that
21:45comes into the picture and and that i think would be something that will have an effect on their
21:50ability to win more votes and seats at the general election okay the one that i noticed that doesn't
21:57appear on my social media is uh muda although side sadiq appear but not as a muda person but as
22:03a
22:03celebrity uh endorsing product etc etc he's a recent uh you know marriage to be yes yeah i'll see bella
22:11there and everything so it's muda a one seat one state seat wonder or it it yeah what will happen
22:20to
22:20it in terms of this election i think a lot of growing pains uh because they are basically
22:25fighting in the same space as bersama yes yeah and i think bersama because of its more prominent
22:30national leaders uh obviously rafizi and and to a lesser extent nick nazmi they cannot muda doesn't
22:37have anyone to fight to be able to fight them other than side sadiq and side sadiq is sitting on
22:41the
22:41johor elections because he has his case uh ongoing uh so you know the the the current leader amira i
22:48think she's a very hard-working person uh but doesn't have the same kind of stature national
22:52stature as uh as a rafizi or sai sadiq so um you know it may be a difficult ride for
22:59muda not just in
23:00johor but for national but can they keep their one and only state seat i don't think so oh okay
23:05yeah i
23:06think they they the new candidate won't lose her deposit uh but yeah it's likely to be a ph or
23:14a bnc
23:15okay i've noticed that the government is trying to ease the uh border control between singapore and
23:22johor uh for july 11 and then it looks like they will want uh more it looks like the government
23:30they want more malaysian who are working in yeah you yeah clarify you looks like the government means
23:37federal government yes correct federal government wants more uh yeah more yeah yeah more more people
23:43working in yes singapore to come back so what's the impact of these voters what what's what's in their
23:48mind okay so good question uh i think the general impression or the assumption on the part of the
23:54federal government uh and and this is mostly on the ph side is that these outstation voters will come
24:01back and they will support pakatan harapan uh but i think there is the likelihood of something
24:11interesting happening whereby maybe they will a majority of them will still support pakatan harapan
24:17but that majority from 95 supporting ph in the last general election may drop to let's say 60 percent
24:23okay uh and that difference of 30 to 35 percent uh may be sufficient for barisan national to win
24:30some of the marginal seats and i point to the example of sabah where in kota kinabalu i don't think
24:37dap expected to lose the two state seats there uh maybe maybe you have a different point of view but
24:43because a lot of the outstation voters coming back in they were undecided right until the last moment
24:47and then in the end they wanted to teach ph and dap a lesson i'm not quite sure the same
24:54kind of
24:54phenomenon will happen in johor but the possibility is there uh my good friend liu cintong uh perling
24:59uh perling but he's not standing there you know he's always he's been talking about black swan events
25:05i think a black swan event may be that the outstation voters will come back and enough of them would
25:12vote in
25:12such a way as to teach paketah harapan a lesson okay or they will teach uh there's a chance of
25:22that black
25:22swan so-called event happening okay interesting okay i i got two more questions what's your prediction of
25:31the johor polls i actually did a projection uh before the the announcement of the candidates
25:39and i gave three scenarios scenario one was more pro bn the most likely uh you know most likely
25:47scenario to happen more than 50 percent where i predicted that there will be a loss of about maybe
25:5230 percent of the chinese vote on the part of ph loss of about uh almost 40 percent of the
25:58the indian vote
25:59uh and then the malay vote uh you know lose about five percent because the malay support wasn't very
26:04high and then the second scenario is more pro pn prikata national uh where uh you know the the loss
26:11of
26:11the malay vote would go more towards uh pn and then bn may lose some malay vote towards the pn
26:16as well
26:17and then the last scenario is more pro ph where the magnitude of the loss in the non-malay support
26:22will
26:22be less so lose 20 percent of the chinese support rather than 30 percent lose uh you know 30 percent
26:28of
26:28the indian vote compared to uh 40 percent and what i found in all those scenarios was that bn would
26:35still win uh comfortably so the the even the third scenario where it's pro ph uh bn would win about
26:4139
26:42seats compared to the 40 that it won and the reason is that a lot of the seats uh that
26:49were won uh you
26:50know in in 2022 the state elections uh by ph were won with relatively small majorities because of three
26:57corner fight and all that and even when i modeled these kinds of projections not using the 2022 state
27:03election results but using the 2022 general election results where ph did much better because you know
27:09overseas voters outstation voters came back after covet even then in that scenario bn would still win
27:15comfortably with about 39 seats uh that is in the the worst case scenario for for bn uh after about
27:22one
27:22week of campaigning because of some of the factors i talked about just now uh i'm looking at bn winning
27:27between 45 to 50 seats that's the best that's the best scenario and i think to 50 seats out of
27:3456 okay
27:35uh and and i will say this here the first time that i'm saying this publicly okay uh i predict
27:42that mca would
27:44win more state seats than dap okay right now uh dap has 10 state seats mca has four right uh
27:52so you
27:53just need to have a swing of let's say four seats whereby mca get eight state seats uh then dap
27:58would
27:58end up with six state seats okay so you know that that is uh i think something that would uh
28:04definitely
28:04shake things up in terms of public perception of uh support for ph and also dap among the non-malay
28:10voters
28:10okay then your worst the third scenario what's the number the third scenario would be uh you know
28:17uh uh bn winning about 39 seats uh ph was still managed to hold on to about eight to ten
28:25uh you know
28:26state seats uh and then in that scenario mca would maintain its four maybe go up to five or six
28:33states
28:34you you mentioned perikatan and perikatan is a bit strange because it's like technically technically
28:40four parties contesting i mean a coalition that they are for they're going on their own but people
28:46ignore mip mipp and then gerakan is not contesting yeah gerakan and so basically it's uh basically
28:52just besatu and pass yeah so how will pass do and how will besatu do i think besat uh pass
28:58is
28:58trying to focus all its efforts on one state seat that holds yes um may not be so easy for
29:04them to
29:05hold even though i think they have a hard-working candidate there because i think for that seat they've
29:09experienced a little bit of increase in the number of voters uh and i think much more pressure will be
29:15on bersatu because a lot of the seats that they want uh you know one one person uh already jumped
29:21and then the other seats are in areas that are close to pago yes and people feel that muhidin is
29:29vulnerable now right so those are the kind of reasons where where i think you know these developments that
29:34happen after the nomination of the candidates uh lead me to believe that the beneficiaries of this
29:40would be more barisan national uh rather than pakatan harapan okay uh i got one more question but i
29:47let you wrap up first then i will ask you the last question okay yeah so in general how do
29:52you see this uh
29:54jaw or polls uh i think most people already assume that barisan national will win right uh and i think
30:02the importance about the the importance of these polls is what kind of domino effect it will have
30:09on what's going to happen in the other states seats and also in federal government right so uh i'm not
30:15sure whether i'm preempting your last question but this is this is my scenario okay this is my scenario you
30:20know listeners can uh audience can agree or disagree you know we are all uh you know up for debate
30:25and
30:25discussion if let's say bn wins more than 40 seats which is in joe which is what it won in
30:322022 in the
30:33state elections let's say my prediction comes through about maybe 45 seats right um this will open up the
30:42opportunity if let's say mca also wins more seats compared to the dap for the menteri besar to come in
30:49to
30:49say okay i'm going to give mca a bigger role in the state government uh right now they have two
30:55ex
30:55goals i'm going to give you three ex goals mic gets one ex goal uh and maybe you know some
31:01of the
31:01nominated aduns i you know will will uh also appoint some mca leaders in there that will give a signal
31:11to the non-malay voters in negeri sembilan okay to say that look if the tide is turning you better
31:17make
31:17sure that there are some non-malay representation in the state government but you just need one or two
31:22decent younger candidates for the party and the bn to focus on and that may be enough together with
31:30maybe cooperation with pass for the malay voters to switch towards bn and to a lesser extent to to to
31:37pass that may be enough for bn to win back control of the state uh state government 16th of august
31:47there's also an important event happening yes which is the dap special congress okay in a context where
31:54dap and ph does badly in these two states including losing the greece and bilan i think there's a more
31:5950 percent chance that the dap delegates would vote for the ministers and deputy ministers of the dap to
32:07resign from government but still support the madani government aspect ventures
32:15around the same time um no will also have their general assembly okay whereby i think they would
32:21have that kind of momentum and they will say look we're going to go solo in the next general election
32:26in that context how sustainable or stable do you think the federal government is uh my sense is
32:34that it would not be that stable and that there will be other moves and push for there for the
32:40government to be dissolved not because anwar wants it to be dissolved but he may be forced to dissolve
32:45government because he may not have enough support and not having a functioning enough functioning cabinet
32:51because of the loss of the dap leaders that he may be forced to dissolve parliament before the end of
32:58the year okay that was my last question okay you've answered my last question with that uh thanks so
33:07much thank you thanks for giving us your insight uh we'll see on july 11 thanks everybody
33:21um
33:27um