00:00Do you think we're taking someone for granted?
00:03Yeah, Donovan Mitchell, you've said it for the last two days.
00:06You've basically openly admitted that we're taking him for granted.
00:09Do you remember how bad this organization was
00:12and the situation that they were in before Donovan got here?
00:15They were losing play-in tournament games to the Atlanta Hawks.
00:18Yeah, they were a play-in team, though.
00:20They were a play-in team. That's not good.
00:23You don't want to be a play-in team.
00:25But they did that in three years.
00:26The best night for the Cavs during the non-LeBron or Donovan Mitchell era
00:32was the draft lottery.
00:34And then the second best night was the draft itself.
00:38Think about how far they have come.
00:40And Donovan is mostly responsible for that.
00:43He's been the leader of that.
00:45I think Evan has been responsible for that.
00:47I think Darius, for a part of that, was.
00:49Just like 2016, RJ was responsible and Channing Frye was responsible
00:54and Matthew Delladova and all these other guys.
00:56Stop it. Donovan's not LeBron.
00:58But LeBron led them to a championship,
00:59just like Donovan has led the turnaround of this franchise.
01:02Evan is Kyrie.
01:05Darius is K-Love.
01:06Or you can strike that in reverse it.
01:07You are out of your mind.
01:09No, I think you're out of your mind.
01:10He has been an MVP candidate every single season that he has been here.
01:15He has led this organization to four straight playoff appearances,
01:18two semifinals, one conference finals,
01:22three 50-win seasons.
01:24You can't just assume that Evan Mobley was going to do that
01:28if Donovan Mitchell wasn't here.
01:29You can't just assume that Darius Garland would have done that
01:32if Donovan Mitchell wasn't here.
01:33When you traded for him, did you say,
01:36I want to get to the second round of the playoffs consistently?
01:38No, of course you want to compete for a championship.
01:40Okay, and you haven't.
01:41They have.
01:41No, they have not.
01:42They just got to the conference finals.
01:43They got swept.
01:43They were not even close to that team.
01:45They were one series away from getting to the NBA finals.
01:47That is a very convenient Donovan-centric way of explaining that.
01:52Saying it, oh, they were one series away.
01:54No, they got swept in the Eastern Conference finals.
01:55A team you and I think are fraudulent in the Detroit Pistons
01:58took them to seven games.
02:00You also act like it's easy to turn a franchise
02:04that had no success whatsoever,
02:07that was playing for ping pong balls and lottery picks,
02:10you act like it's easy to turn that franchise
02:13into a consistent, stable winner.
02:15Show your work on that.
02:16How do I act like it's easy?
02:18Because you just took for granted getting to the conference finals.
02:21No, no, no, no, no.
02:22The point is, yeah, he's done stuff.
02:24He's done some stuff.
02:25Yes, he has.
02:26But the Cavs are treating him like LeBron.
02:28He doesn't deserve that.
02:29More than Evan Mowgli would have done.
02:30More than Darius Garland would have done.
02:31Yes, we do.
02:32You know you don't.
02:33Because there's a difference in their talent.
02:35Yes, they needed the talent of Donovan Mitchell.
02:38They needed somebody who was going to play like an MVP candidate.
02:41They needed a pro with maturity who knew how to win basketball games consistently,
02:47not how to get to the play-in tournament and lose to the fraudulent Atlanta Hawks.
02:51Every single year, somebody comes available.
02:54Not every single year.
02:55I don't want to say that.
02:55No.
02:56I know.
02:57I know.
02:58Almost every single year, there are names that move the needle
03:01that come available in the NBA.
03:04Last offseason was the anomaly that we didn't have that.
03:07But most every year, Donovan's getting traded, a Harden's getting traded,
03:11a Kevin Durant's getting traded, a Kyrie's getting traded,
03:14LeBron moves on every four years.
03:16Well, now it's been like eight years, but you know what I'm saying.
03:18Like, there are great players.
03:20And again, none of this is to take away what Donovan has done.
03:23It is to look forward and go, can he get you where you want to go?
03:27And if not, who can?
03:30And that's the conversation we should be having instead of,
03:33well, but look at what Donovan's done, so I guess he's a made man.
03:36Donovan shouldn't be a made man.
03:38You can respect what he's done without going overboard
03:41and giving him so much credit of things he has not accomplished yet.
03:44Do you understand how hard it was to get Donovan Mitchell
03:47and how long it took this organization to get Donovan Mitchell
03:50and the missteps along the way and the dark times?
03:54Yep.
03:55Yeah, and they're no longer in dark times.
03:57No, because of him.
03:58Yep, which doesn't mean you should keep him infinatum.
04:02Well, as long as he continues to give you a consistent chance at winning,
04:08you keep him.
04:09Yeah, unless you can upgrade.
04:11Unless you can upgrade, which Jalen Brown is an upgrade.
04:14But they're not taking that deal.
04:16Austin's not taking that deal.
04:17That we know of.
04:19By the way, we don't know.
04:20Just because it's leaked that they would take Evan Mobley.
04:22Find me the package that is better than Donovan Mitchell for Jalen Brown
04:27or Donovan and a future first-round pick or two for Jalen Brown.
04:31Jalen Johnson is a centerpiece from the Atlanta Hawks.
04:33I feel like that's just as much of a sidestep, but okay.
04:37Why?
04:38How is that a sidestep?
04:39Because Jalen isn't the player Donovan is?
04:41No, he's not.
04:42But he's younger.
04:43He's on a different kind of contract.
04:45And there's not a level of concern that the player is potentially going to walk
04:50after just one year.
04:51It's Boston.
04:52Donovan's not going to go walk after one year.
04:54Teams all the time spend more for players under team control.
04:58You understand that?
04:59Yep.
04:59Yes.
05:00By the way, why did the Cavs trade for James Harden?
05:03Because they worked out contractual futures with him beforehand.
05:06Yes, because they thought they were going to have him under team control.
05:09Yes, because they had that conversation.
05:11So those conversations in the NBA happen all the time.
05:13You're telling me before they would trade for Donovan Mitchell,
05:16the Celtics wouldn't go, hey, Donovan, you going to stick here in a year?
05:19He could change his mind.
05:21You can't take him at his word.
05:23Yes, you can.
05:23Teams do that all the time.
05:26Okay, and it also backfires at times.
05:28Yeah, and it also doesn't at times.
05:30That's the right word.
05:30Yes.
05:31So if you're trading Jalen Brown, you don't take that risk.
05:34Listen, I think the Cavs feel like they have to choose between Evan and Donovan.
05:40I do.
05:41And I think they're going to choose Evan.
05:43So I think you're going to end up winning this argument no matter what.
05:46They should.
05:46They should choose Evan.
05:47I completely disagree.
05:49He hasn't improved nearly as much as Donovan Mitchell.
05:50Neither has Donovan.
05:51He hasn't improved nearly what you've said he has.
05:53Yes, he has.
05:54No, he's been a very nice regular season player, and he's been really good at points in the postseason.
06:02But in the end, you are the best player on your team.
06:05That record, your end result, speaks to who you are.
06:09He took a franchise that was nothing without LeBron James, that was playing for draft picks, and he made them
06:17respectable.
06:19This was not.
06:20They weren't the 15th seed Cavs.
06:22They were a play-in team that couldn't beat the Hawks.
06:25Year three of what?
06:27No, year one of Evan Mobley.
06:28Year three of Darius Garland.
06:30Yes.
06:31So the idea that that core wasn't going to get better by themselves.
06:35They weren't going to get to the point that Donovan took them.
06:38Donovan, right.
06:39Here's where we'll agree.
06:40Donovan jump-started the rebuild.
06:43No, he led the rebuild.
06:44No, he jump-started it.
06:46The rebuild was jump-started when you got Evan Mobley.
06:50And then you had Darius.
06:51Technically, the rebuild was jump-started when you traded for Jared Allen.
06:55I'll also agree with that.
06:56But the point is, did he level-jump you?
06:58Yes.
06:58Now you have to ask, can he still level-jump with you?
07:02I don't know why anyone just assumes that he can.
07:05So I'm not taking him for granted.
07:06Why do you assume that Evan Mobley can't?
07:08Because he's much younger and because the circumstances haven't changed around.
07:12Because he hasn't proven nearly as much?
07:13Because he hasn't improved his game?
07:15Because he hasn't been put in a position to.
07:17Wow.
07:17Because Donovan has been the best player on, was it, nine consecutive teams?
07:22Yes, he has.
07:23And he has topped out with one Eastern Conference Finals appearance.
07:28Since when does going to the Eastern Conference Finals, since when is that a bad thing?
07:33When you get swept.
07:34When you get absolutely worked.
07:36And he's not the only one, but he is the best player on that team that got swept.
07:39Yes?
07:40Yes.
07:40Okay.
07:41Where's the accountability for that?
07:42Where's the honest conversation with that?
07:45I think there is an honest conversation.
07:46What is it?
07:47I think a lot of people are questioning.
07:48Is it, Darius, is it, blame it on Evan Mobley?
07:50I think a lot of people are questioning whether Donovan Mitchell can be the best player on
07:54a championship team.
07:56Yes.
07:56That is happening.
07:57But, yeah, the Cavs aren't maybe making that question, are they?
08:00I think they are.
08:01Yeah.
08:02So, they are.
08:02I think they have to ask that question.
08:04Where are those questions?
08:05I see the questions by floating Evan's, or Evan's name being floated in talks.
08:10I see the fact that they've given James the latitude to go see if he can get a better
08:15deal.
08:15I see there.
08:16You don't have to act on it.
08:17There's also the other side of this where they are a better team, regardless of what
08:23they do, with Donovan Mitchell on it.
08:25Donovan Mitchell leading it.
08:27They're always going to come to that point.
08:30There is nobody that they can get, reasonably, that if Donovan is also taken off this team,
08:38that they're going to look at it and say, we're a better basketball player.
08:41Then they're over-valuing Donovan Mitchell.
08:44They're appreciating what he has already shown to be and what he's already shown to do for
08:49an organization.
08:50And that appreciation is taking them away from making the evaluation going forward.
08:55You do not pay for what you did.
08:58No, they weren't.
08:59Yes, they were.
08:59No, they weren't.
09:00They were a back-end play-in team.
09:02For one year.
09:03Yes.
09:03They were building.
09:04With no guarantee that they were going to get out of that.
09:07There are teams all the time that have all these young guys that get to the play-in tournament
09:12and then you sit there and you say to yourself, well, they could take the next step next year.
09:17They could take the next step the year after.
09:18They could take the next step the year after.
09:20And it never happens because just because you're a young player doesn't mean you improve.
09:25It doesn't mean that you get to the level that Donovan Mitchell was at at the time that
09:28they traded.
09:29There's also young teams that do the thing that you just said, which is they get better and
09:34better and better and they build.
09:35Yeah, when their players are good enough and they show that.
09:38I don't think you know whether they would have.
09:40Darius Garland was an incredibly flawed player.
09:42Everybody could see it.
09:44Yeah, because he's the only undersized point guard.
09:46He can't guard you.
09:47He probably could.
09:48I don't know about that one.
09:49He probably could.
09:49I'm very slow.
09:50He can't really guard anybody.
09:52He can guard some people.
09:53He just has to be much smaller than him.
09:55And he doesn't take the game seriously enough to lead a team the way that Donovan Mitchell did.
10:01I think.
10:01And Evan Mobley is not a leader.
10:04They needed a leader.
10:05They needed a pro.
10:06They needed a winner.
10:08They needed somebody.
10:09By the way, you knew he wasn't a leader when he was 20 years old, Evan Mobley?
10:13It's a personality thing.
10:15He's not an alpha.
10:16By the way, how the hell do we know that Donovan's a leader worthy of?
10:20Because he's led nine teams to the playoffs.
10:24To the playoffs.
10:25I forgot.
10:25More than half the league gets into the playoff, Chris.
10:28That's an accomplishment that Darius Garland couldn't do.
10:31That's an accomplishment that Evan Mobley couldn't do.
10:33They weren't given a chance to do.
10:35There's a difference.
10:36There's a reason for that.
10:37No.
10:37No.
10:37The reason is you traded for Donovan Mitchell.
10:39And I have no problem with trading for Donovan Mitchell.
10:41He is not LeBron.
10:43He is not Kevin Durant.
10:44He is not the 1% of the NBA.
10:47And he shouldn't be treated like that.
10:49He is a great player.
10:50He is a top 15 player.
10:51Yes.
10:51But he's not a top five player.
10:53Never will be.
10:53You can't just go to the superstar store and pick out somebody.
10:57In this case, you might be able to.
10:59Because it's convenient.
10:59You might be able to.
11:01Well, yeah.
11:01If you trade Evan Mobley.
11:03Yeah, you could trade Donovan Mitchell.
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