00:00This is a great opportunity indeed to show how closely we are working together, the European Union and NATO.
00:07Actually, I was just thinking today, one of the reasons is, my dear friend Mark,
00:12because we have both experiences on both sides.
00:16You were for 14 or 16 years, 14 years prime minister, so he was in the European Council,
00:22and I was for five years defense minister, so I was sitting in NATO.
00:25Now it's the other way around, and therefore we know both how important a close cooperation between the European Union
00:33and NATO is.
00:35Second, I just listened to the panel before us, and it's very clear,
00:44all member states of the European Union and allies have one single set of forces.
00:48So they assigned these single set of forces either to NATO missions or to EU missions, UN missions, or a
00:55coalition of the willing.
00:57But to make this possible, what we need is interoperability.
01:01And of course, in this geostrategic and geopolitical environment, we need a massive surge in defense investment.
01:10And here, the European Union is indeed massively stepping up.
01:15We have our Rearm Europe program, which mobilizes up to 800 billion euros till 2030.
01:25In this program is SAFE, SAFE 150 billion euros for joint procurement.
01:32And not to forget, the next long-term budget will have 131 billion euros for military capabilities,
01:40plus 17 billion euros for military mobility, which is also of utmost importance.
01:46Streets, bridges, ports, airports, etc.
01:49The infrastructure also has to be here on the European side.
01:53And on SAFE is, for us, very important, as I said, the joint procurement.
02:01Here, we have good news.
02:03We have now 10 agreements worth 100 billion euros.
02:08SAFE is, per design, open also to partners and other countries.
02:1435% of the cost components can go outside the European Union.
02:19But, of course, 65% have to be in the European Union.
02:22And that's the point, how we strengthen the defense industrial base.
02:26Because with this taxpayer's money, we want, of course, a return on investment.
02:31And we want good jobs in Europe.
02:33We want research and development in Europe.
02:35So that's important for us.
02:37My last sentence on this.
02:39The door is more open than the 35% for countries outside the European Union.
02:44If there is a security and defense agreement signed, Canada is the first one to have done this.
02:51So these possibilities are also there.
02:53So you see a wide spectrum of investment.
02:56Well, Secretary Jean, if you can also share your perspectives.
03:02Well, basically, I totally agree.
03:03The great thing is we know each other so long.
03:06And, of course, there is a clear division of labor we both agree on.
03:09So that's why we can strengthen each other's roles.
03:13So NATO is about command and control, capabilities, and standards.
03:17Basically, all the other things have to be handled by Europe.
03:21And the EU, of course, is crucial there.
03:23And 23 of NATO allies are also in the European Union.
03:26So most of the NATO allies are also a member of the European Union.
03:31And when you look at issues like, indeed, making sure the money is there, the 800 billion, crucial program.
03:37But also when it comes to, indeed, military mobility, when it comes to societal resilience,
03:43when it comes to developing the defense industrial base, this is all what Europe, the EU, is working on.
03:49You appointed Andreas Kobilius, the first defense commissioner, I think, in the history of the European Commission.
03:55He is working on that with a specific focus under your leadership.
03:59And I think that's all evidence.
04:01And we have got to do this because the threat is there.
04:04We cannot continue, as we did, being over-reliant on the United States.
04:09We need this much stronger Europe and a stronger NATO.
04:13And we can only get there when we work together seamlessly as one, using and leveraging each other's strengths.
04:19And that's what we are doing.
04:20Well, we all know that it is important for Europeans to strengthen their strategic responsibility.
04:30I rather prefer using strategic responsibility rather than autonomy in order to have the transatlantic bonds as strong as ever.
04:40While doing so, of course, NATO is most appreciative of the initiatives taken by the European Union.
04:49You mentioned SAFE, of course, there are many others, European Defense Fund, PESCO, EDIRPA, REARM.
04:58And, of course, in creating capabilities, translating cash to capabilities, the European Union needs to look not only to the
05:10capabilities of the member states,
05:13and Europe is more than the European Union.
05:15And I would like to ask to you, President Ursula von der Leyen, since the audience here is also including
05:26Turkish participants,
05:28how you see the involvement of non-EU allies, you mentioned Canada, but there are others, including Turkey,
05:39a way forward to properly involve Turkey in such projects.
05:47If you can touch upon it, I'm sure they will be quite receptive.
05:52Yes, Turkey is one of the largest armed forces within NATO, of very big importance,
06:00and has always played an important role in the alliance, but also, of course, in our relationship with the European
06:07Union.
06:08And, as I said, if you only look at SAFE, which are the 150 billion euros, 35%, that's a lot,
06:16is open to work, for example, together with Turkey.
06:21But the 800 billion up to 2030 is the decision of the member states how to invest their defense allocation
06:34in order to fill the gaps.
06:36So there's a wide opportunity to have a very close cooperation with each other.
06:41For us, it's very important to be totally aligned with the NATO targets,
06:48because, as I said, the one single set of forces, we know where the gaps are,
06:51and we have to work very closely together.
06:54So, for example, the NDPP, the NATO Defense Planning Process, is for us very important,
07:00so that we fill the gaps in a cost-efficient manner.
07:04But I want to add another point.
07:06And we also want to work very closely with Ukraine.
07:10The panel before us described the phenomenal innovative power that Ukraine has,
07:17and this we have to use, because we have to step up in our defense capabilities fast,
07:23at a reasonable cost, and smart.
07:26And Ukraine has proven all this in the last years under the pressure of the war.
07:31This is the reason why the European Union, for the first time, opened an innovation office in Kyiv,
07:38to have direct contact with the Kyiv industrial base.
07:43Secondly, we are encouraging our companies to go into joint venture with Ukrainian companies.
07:49And thirdly, we, as a European Union, are working on a longer-term partnership in order to look how to
07:57boost our cutting-edge technology base
08:03in our defense industrial base in the European Union, together with Ukraine.
08:07We can learn a lot from Ukraine, and we have to learn a lot,
08:11because they are not only highly innovative, but also battlefield experience.
08:16So, this whole picture shows how much we are stepping up here, together with NATO,
08:22because we share the same interests, and we share the same values, and we know what's up.
08:28Secretary General, you, in your remarks, told that the priority for Ankara Summit would be also to have a proper
08:37follow-up
08:37of the Hague Summit meeting with the decisions taken there.
08:42Of course, when European allies elevate their contributions in burden-sharing,
08:49it should not translate itself to decoupling, transatlantic bond, to maintain it, is of vital importance.
08:57But talking about the defense industrial capacity, there are few earlier initiatives, like Diana Innovation Fund,
09:09but you also today touched upon some new ones, what would be the priorities for NATO in years ahead
09:19to focus and deliver, and what industrial community could expect, and what you expect from them?
09:30Basically, the priority is for our defense industrial base in Europe, in Canada, in the U.S. to produce more.
09:37However, we are making progress. It's really getting much better.
09:40You see in Europe, more production lines, more factories being opened.
09:44I mentioned in my short speech the ammunition, which is really, when it comes to the output,
09:53it's a huge increase in production.
09:56But you need this across the defense industrial base, again, in Europe, Canada, and in the U.S.
10:02because Russia has the whole of its economy now on a war footing.
10:05So the car industry in Russia is producing for the war effort.
10:09And that means that we've got to do this also in Europe, Canada, and the U.S.
10:12And what we are seeing at the moment is a transformation which is unparalleled since the end of the Cold
10:19War,
10:19where Europe is taking so much more responsibility for the conventional defense of NATO,
10:26of this part of NATO territory, with still a strong U.S. presence, also going forward, both nuclear and conventional.
10:33But it is a NATO transformed where the U.S. has a strong partner in Europe,
10:39much stronger than it was only four or five years ago.
10:42Therefore, the whole of NATO is stronger, as the German defense minister said the other day,
10:47to maintain, to stay transatlantic, we have to become more European.
10:51And that's exactly what is happening.
10:53And you see some of the key leadership roles in NATO now being taken over by Europeans.
10:57You see the Europeans taking the lead on Ukraine and the support for Ukraine.
11:00We're still crucial supply from the U.S., but paid for by European and Canadian allies.
11:04We see it again with some of the commands in NATO taking over by Europeans.
11:09We see the foreign land forces more and more Europeanized.
11:13We're still U.S. presence, and also the three centuries, Baltic, Arctic, and Eastern,
11:20very much European dominated.
11:22This is what we need.
11:23So this cooperation between NATO, European Union, is leading to a transformation which, again, is unparalleled.
11:30And we need it because in the end it makes us stronger.
11:33Well, there is a geopolitical transformation in general with its rupture, unfortunate rupture.
11:41And certainly it is necessary to also have a transformation of mindset.
11:48And it requires perhaps, as many have touched upon already, not to see governments as the only stakeholder,
12:00but it should be a combination of contributions from others, including industry.
12:07So we used to talk more about the whole-of-government approach.
12:13Perhaps on resilience, you may talk a bit about a whole-of-society approach.
12:19So perhaps we may start with you.
12:22Yeah, the whole-of-society approach is very important because we do not only see the conventional or, let's say,
12:28the military threat out there, but the whole hybrid attacks that we are suffering from
12:34are targeting towards the society.
12:37For example, if you take foreign interference and manipulation of information, internet-based,
12:43this is a big issue which is targeting the society's vulnerability and where you have to build resilience.
12:51And this is something which we are working intensively on, too, to set the record straight, to convince with facts
12:59and figures,
13:00to be clear in all these debates, internet-based, what the truth is and what the right facts and figures
13:08are.
13:09And you can win these battles.
13:11We've seen this in different scenarios that you can really convince people.
13:16If you look at the Eurobarometer measuring opinions of people, they say very clearly that one of their top worries
13:25is security and resilience.
13:28So the Europeans have understood how important it is to defend our democracy, to defend our values,
13:34to stand up for freedom and for peace.
13:37So this approach of whole of society is the precondition to be successful.
13:44I completely agree.
13:46And let me just give one example.
13:47Turkey, how you have organized your defense industry with the Turkish defense industry secretariat directly reporting into the president.
13:55You have about 3,000 defense industrial companies working closely together, small, medium-sized, the bigger ones,
14:03basically exporting all over NATO territory and, of course, producing for Turkey itself and also exporting outside NATO.
14:12I think that's a model which is very interesting.
14:14And I know that some other allies are studying it to see whether they could implement it in their country.
14:20So it's just one example of a whole-of-society approach when it comes to defense industry.
14:26And more generally, it is indeed, as Ursula was saying, it is the realization Europeans have that the first task
14:34of government
14:35is to keep our country safe.
14:37The second task is to have a strong economy.
14:39And you need both to deter the Russians.
14:42We need strong economies, healthy finances connected to strong economies.
14:47But first of all, we have to defend ourselves.
14:49It's the first task of every government.
14:51And the threat is there.
14:52Russia, working with North Korea, Iran and China, let's not be naive.
14:56So this forum, in fact, is a showcase of this interaction, strong interaction between governments and industry.
15:05I see the clock.
15:07It seems that we have come to the end of this important conversation.
15:12And once again, thank you for sharing your views.
15:17And it's always a pleasure to see both of you.
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