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This news broadcast covers key political developments in India and international affairs. Former Chief Election Commissioner TS Krishnamurthy addresses the evolution of India's photo voter identity cards, stating that while basic verification occurs during voter registration, voter ID cards do not serve as proof of citizenship.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Sawant.
00:03It's a day of fast-paced developments in India and across the world.
00:07U.S. President Donald Trump, he's praised Indian elections and the use of voter identity card.
00:14In fact, he's put a message, he's posted a message on Truth Social saying, and I quote,
00:19earlier this month, India's Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar asked our administration,
00:25how can you have elections in the U.S. without a valid photo ID?
00:30India's last election had 64 crore, 60 lakh voters, less than 1% voted by mail,
00:37and every single voter had or had to have a valid photo ID document.
00:45We need to pass the Save America Act now, President Donald J. Trump, unquote.
00:53U.S. Ambassador to India, Ambassador Sergio Gaur, he's put out a picture with India's CEO
00:59with the Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar to say, President Donald Trump is absolutely correct,
01:07646 million voters, every single one required an ID in India's last election.
01:14The Congress, the U.S. Congress should pass the Save America Act.
01:19But here in India, it sparked off a furious debate between the BJP and the Congress and we get you
01:26all sides of the story.
01:27The BJP says, the world is recognizing the truth about Indian elections, that we set the global benchmark.
01:36The Congress says, take the CEC and the EVMs to the U.S. or words to that effect.
01:42That story coming up. Also, the big story is the Congress now in conflict with the law,
01:49insisting only the first two stanzas of Vande Matram, the national song, will be sung.
01:55Because the only first two stanzas, they were sung at the party meet in Goa.
02:00Even in Kerala, the Congress insists it will stick only to two stanzas.
02:05BJP calls it minority appeasement politics of the Congress.
02:11BJP ally JDS has taken it to another level.
02:14They've questioned Sonia Gandhi.
02:17Congress dares the BJP to take action for singing only the first two stanzas and we get you all sides
02:22of that story.
02:23And coming up from across the border in Pakistan, it's a big win for jailed former Prime Minister and World
02:30Cup winning Captain Imran Khan.
02:32Finally, the Supreme Court of Pakistan has ordered the Shahbaz Sharif government that Imran Khan be taken to the Shifa
02:41International Hospital from Adhiyala Jainil Rawalpindi.
02:44And it's being seen as a major setback to Pakistan's all-powerful Chief of Defence Forces, Asim Muneer.
02:51The Supreme Court has said Imran Khan should be shifted out of Rawalpindi's Adhiyala Jail.
02:57He should be taken to the Shifa International Hospital.
03:00There should be a board form and a proper medical examination should be conducted.
03:06There were rumours just last week that Imran Khan had either been killed or died in custody.
03:12But the establishment in Pakistan says that's a rumour.
03:15He will be taken to hospital, but then they're trying to delay it.
03:19There are reports from Pakistan's team to indicate that his shifting to the hospital has been delayed by 48 hours.
03:24We get you more on that story in the second part of India first.
03:28But first, there's breaking news that's coming in from West Asia.
03:31The contentious Strait of Hormuz and U.S. President Donald Trump, he is now officially laying claim to the Strait
03:38of Hormuz,
03:39saying the Strait is now U.S. territory.
03:43News just coming in.
03:45U.S. President Donald Trump has posted an AI-generated map labelling the Strait of Hormuz as new U.S.
03:55territory.
03:55This post came after President Trump said last week that he would pretty soon be declaring the Hormuz Strait a
04:04territory of the United States of America.
04:08And moments from now, we'll put out that AI-generated picture that President Trump has put on Truth Social.
04:14President Trump has claimed Washington, D.C. has total control over the strategic waterway.
04:22The Strait of Hormuz has emerged as the primary flashpoint in this continuing U.S.-Iran confrontation,
04:32more so after the end of the ceasefire as per the MOU.
04:37As recently as the 14th of August, President Trump, during a speech at the Police Academy in New York said,
04:44and I quote,
04:45After we finish defeating Iran, which is being very badly defeated,
04:52pretty soon I will be declaring the Hormuz Strait a territory of the United States, unquote.
04:58That's that picture that you see on your television screen, that center picture.
05:01U.S. President has put out this message saying this is new U.S. territory.
05:06Is he floating another trial balloon here?
05:09Is he taunting Iran?
05:11Is he sending out a message to Iran?
05:13Because Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister, Qasem Garibabadi, Qasem Garibabadi has responded.
05:20He's actually mocked the U.S. President and this map.
05:24Garibabadi also took to social media platform X to say, and I quote,
05:28Just as Trump correctly wrote the name of the eternal Persian Gulf,
05:34his delusion regarding the state of Hormuz will soon either be corrected or we will correct the delusions of the
05:43delusional man, unquote.
05:45Now, this response marks a very sharp rejection of any suggestion that Washington, D.C. controls the strategic waterways
05:55or can unilaterally claim sovereignty over the state of Hormuz.
05:59In fact, Iranian Parliament Speaker Mohamed Bagheir Ghalibab,
06:03he's the man who's been leading Tehran's negotiations team in the peace talks with the U.S.
06:07He said the Strait of Hormuz will remain closed until Washington, D.C. accepts Iran's demands.
06:14He said, and I quote,
06:16The Strait of Hormuz will now not open until the blockade is lifted.
06:22Frozen assets are released.
06:24The oil embargo is lifted.
06:26And threats of military operations on all fronts end, as well as other terms of the MOU, unquote.
06:34I quickly want to cut across and bring in India Today's Pranay Upadhyay for more on this.
06:40Pranay, clear as day that June memorandum has failed.
06:45Are we now looking at a situation that instead of these occasional missile strikes,
06:52there could be resumption of large-scale operations
06:54or just these targeting of stray ships to claim control either by U.S. or by Iran?
07:02Gaurav, as you can very well make out that the entire situation in Strait of Hormuz
07:06and U.S.-Iran conflict is in a situation of quagmire.
07:09Both countries are caught into this situation.
07:12No amount of back-channel talks, no amount of engagement,
07:16no amount of military rhetoric is able to yield the desired result.
07:19And that's why I think President Donald Trump is also playing a psychological game
07:23where he's posting all these AI-generated maps.
07:25This is not for the first time, Gaurav, you can recall very well
07:27that we have discussed this thing in various edit meetings as well,
07:31that how many times President Donald Trump has claimed
07:33that his control over the Strait of Hormuz.
07:35But the reality remains that if the United States or U.S. military
07:39is in complete control of the Strait of Hormuz,
07:41then why the traffic is still hampered there?
07:44Why there is no resumption of the vessel or cargo traffic in the Strait of Hormuz?
07:50Because, you know, as the situation on 27th of February 2026
07:53before the onset of this conflict,
07:55this clearly shows that neither United States is able to resolve the situation
07:59nor Iran is able to settle this issue.
08:01And I think the Oman talks between Iran and Oman
08:04are also giving some kind of indication.
08:07But so far, there is no complete agreement.
08:10There is hardly any forward movement, Pranay.
08:13And Donald Trump may claim that the Iran blockade is complete,
08:17it's working, he claims inflation in Iran is up 300%,
08:22the regime is on the verge of collapse,
08:25there are unidentified projectiles that continue to target
08:28either merchant vessels or cargo tankers, oil tankers.
08:33Is the U.S. blockade working?
08:35Is there an apprehension?
08:36Oil prices could go up once again?
08:41There remains a possibility, Gaurav.
08:43It cannot be denied because there's such a heavy military presence
08:46around the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman.
08:49This clearly indicates that U.S. is maintaining an aggressive posture.
08:53There is a naval blockade still in force.
08:56And President Donald Trump has all the authority.
08:57He has already, you know, indicated,
09:00especially the fact that the MOU, which expired without yielding any result,
09:04there is a rhetorical statement coming from Tehran as well,
09:07where the Iranian military, IRGC, is also saying that they are maintaining an aggressive posture
09:13and there remains a possibility of going all-out offensive, you know, in this situation.
09:19Though there are some back channels,
09:21there are, you know, some countries trying to work out some kind of a solution,
09:24but we have to see that, you know, the situation still after five months
09:29has remained very volatile and a very, very precarious situation around the region.
09:33And the biggest problem is that, again, the crude oil prices have crossed the $90 per barrel.
09:40And that is a big alarm because global oil prices will start to skyrocket.
09:45Keep cracking that story, Pranay.
09:46I will come back to you for more.
09:48President Trump has just put out this message on Truth Social with a map
09:52showing the state of Hormuz, saying this is new U.S. territory.
09:57Shifting focus, India's electoral system, within the country,
10:02it may face tremendous criticism from the opposition.
10:05There are questions over the SIR process,
10:09the intensive review of the electoral rolls.
10:13The Election Commission has faced allegations of votatory
10:17and doubts over the integrity of electoral process.
10:20Each time the opposition loses, this is what they say.
10:22But today, India's election system has received a rather unusual endorsement
10:28from U.S. President Donald J. Trump
10:30and U.S. Ambassador to India, Sergio Gaur.
10:33President Trump has held up India's voter ID card system as an example
10:38while making the case for stricter election laws in America,
10:43at least where voters have an identity card.
10:47Trump pointed to India's massive electorate
10:49and the fact that voters are mandated to and required by law
10:55to carry a valid photo identity card,
10:58arguing that the United States should adopt similar safeguards.
11:02He's using the comparison to push the Save America Act,
11:06which seeks mandatory voter identification and proof of citizenship for federal elections.
11:11U.S. Ambassador to India, Sergio Gaur,
11:13he backed President Trump, calling voter ID important
11:16and saying the United States should have a voter ID requirement,
11:19specifically pointing to India's successful example.
11:23He highlighted the sheer scale of elections in India,
11:27more than 600 million voters and the fact that less than 1% voted by mail.
11:34Back home, there is full-blown politics even on this.
11:38The Congress took a jibe at President Trump's remarks.
11:41The Congress, at its sarcastic best,
11:44telling the U.S. President to take the Chief Election Commissioner,
11:47Gyanesh Kumar, to Washington, D.C.
11:48and offering to send the EVMs on the next flight as well.
11:54Let me get you all sides of that story. Listen in.
11:57Look, the President was very clear.
12:00And what India does, having a voter ID law,
12:04is something that we should pass in the United States.
12:07You had over 660 million people vote.
12:11By the way, less than 1% by mail.
12:13So I think it's vitally important.
12:15Voter ID is important.
12:16This is not a partisan issue.
12:17And so the President is absolutely right
12:19to that the United States should have a voter ID requirement
12:22when people show up to vote.
12:42So President Trump's praise for India's election system is not in isolation.
12:47On the 7th of July, during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Jakarta,
12:53India and Indonesia signed an agreement on cooperation in electoral process.
12:59The pact covers a range of areas, including election technology,
13:03capacity building, sharing of best practices,
13:06and cooperation on making customized EVM or the electronic voting machines.
13:12And then there is larger reason why this matters.
13:16Indonesia has a population of nearly 288 million
13:20and is the world's third largest democracy.
13:23But unlike India, Indonesia currently conducts its elections using ballot papers.
13:28They want to use the EVMs instead.
13:31The country is now looking at possible transition towards e-voting starting 2029.
13:37And that is why they want to learn from India's experience with the EVMs.
13:41India incidentally has been using the EVMs for decades.
13:44They were first introduced on a limited basis in the late 1980s.
13:50That was an experiment.
13:51And by 2004 Rok Sabah elections, EVMs were being used across all 543 parliamentary constituencies.
14:00Indonesia hasn't simply relied on discussions or paperwork.
14:06Indonesian election officials have actually observed elections in India.
14:11Most recently, during the 2025 Bihar Assembly elections,
14:16Indonesian officials were part of an international delegation
14:19that observed India's electoral process on ground.
14:24So, international teams came in and they were studying this.
14:28So, from polling arrangements to election management,
14:31Indonesia's election commissioner, Idam Holik,
14:34he described the experience as very inspiring.
14:38India is truly a land of democracy,
14:42is what he said after watching the electoral process.
14:47The Ministry of External Affairs has also hailed India's electoral process
14:51when asked about US President Donald Trump's remarks.
14:55Listen in to Randhir Jaiswal, the spokesperson for the Ministry of External Affairs.
15:00I have no specific comments to make on these remarks.
15:06I can say, however, that the credibility and robustness
15:08of India's election machinery is a well-established fact.
15:24Just that I'm putting out on your television screen,
15:27one is of CEC.
15:31Now, US Ambassador to India, Sergio Gaur,
15:34he travelled to Nirvachan Southern mid-August.
15:37It was around the 12th of August that he travelled to Nirvachan Southern
15:41and interacted with the CEC.
15:44The United States is very keen to know this entire process.
15:49You see, the voter identification card,
15:52this was first thought of in 1957-58.
15:57The first elections were held in independent India in 1952.
16:02Remember, India got independence in 1947.
16:06Between 1947 and 1952,
16:08Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru was Prime Minister of India
16:11but the first elections were held in 1952.
16:14Now, it was in 1957 that there was a conversation
16:18that every voter should have a voter identity card.
16:23The initial experiment failed.
16:25But then India did not give up.
16:28Through the next decades,
16:30they kept experimenting with what's the best way forward.
16:34In a limited way,
16:36it was introduced in some elections,
16:39initial success in some stages,
16:41initial failures,
16:42but they kept working on that idea.
16:45So, then you had your voter identity card.
16:48Through the 1970s,
16:49they experimented with it
16:51and then came the E-card,
16:53E-voter card.
16:54This is where you not only had your voter card,
16:58you put biometrics,
16:59you ensured that every valid voter
17:03had a card when he came in
17:05or she came in to vote.
17:07This is something that the United States
17:09now wants to emulate.
17:11So, praise for elections in India
17:13from the West and the East.
17:15So, it's not just the United States,
17:16it's also Indonesia.
17:17There are several other countries
17:18who actually want to study the process
17:20and adopt the best practices.
17:23Apart from US President Donald Trump
17:25praising the voter identity card in July,
17:27Indonesia, like we just mentioned,
17:29praised elections in India
17:30and New Delhi and Jakarta
17:32have actually signed an agreement
17:33on cooperation in electoral processes,
17:35collaboration to customize an EVM
17:39for Indonesia for their purposes.
17:42So, they want India to share the technology
17:44where they would make the EVMs
17:46the way they want to have it in their elections.
17:49The pact was signed
17:50when Prime Minister Narendra Modi
17:52visited Jakarta.
17:53The two countries have agreed to cooperate
17:55on technology, capacity building
17:57and exchange of best practices.
18:00So, criticized by the opposition in India
18:03but praised overseas.
18:05And there is a furious political debate.
18:07Joining me on India first is Dolly Sharma,
18:09national spokesperson of the Congress Party.
18:11Rajat Sethi also joins me
18:14as a political analyst on this show.
18:17Dolly Sharma responds to leaders of the BJP
18:22like Rajiv Chandrasekhar saying,
18:23this is one more global endorsement
18:26for the integrity of Indian electoral process.
18:30Chandrasekhar says,
18:31India's robust, transparent electoral processes
18:35serve as a positive global benchmark.
18:40See, Gaurav, this is very simple.
18:42Actually, BJP's foreign policy is very simple.
18:45If Trump praises Modi ji, world leader.
18:48If Trump criticizes India,
18:50then Trump doesn't understand India.
18:52So, decide first.
18:53Is Trump your guru or your guest?
18:56So, yesterday Trump was wrong about India.
18:59Today Trump is right about voter ID.
19:01BJP's fact-checking department
19:03apparently works according to Trump's mood actually.
19:07You know, when Trump says India is great,
19:09BJP says Modi magic.
19:10When Trump says India is a dead economy,
19:12BJP suddenly discovers that Trump is a foreign politician.
19:16BJP had outsourced foreign policy confidence
19:19to Donald Trump's Twitter account.
19:21So, Modi ji and Trump may have great chemistry,
19:24but India needs great diplomacy,
19:26not great chemistry on camera.
19:29So, and moreover,
19:31I would like to say one more thing.
19:33It's like, he's the same Trump, right?
19:34Who said, I was behind the ceasefire?
19:38I was behind the ceasefire because of me,
19:41you know, Pakistan and India
19:43and everybody knows, you know,
19:47before anybody in India
19:48would have declared Trump
19:50from sitting in Washington
19:51and writing a tweet.
19:53Fair enough.
19:54Let me bring in Rajat Sethi.
19:56Let me bring in Rajat Sethi
19:58to respond.
19:59Selective acceptance of Trump's statements
20:01or is there wider global acceptance
20:05and recognition of India's elections,
20:08be it Donald Trump
20:09or be it the government in Indonesia?
20:12Rajat.
20:13So, Gaurav, good evening to you
20:15and to our fellow panelists.
20:17I don't think we have to wait
20:20for Donald Trump or any U.S. official
20:23to pat the back of our election commission.
20:26Election commission,
20:28the work has currently been endorsed
20:31by more than 70 countries
20:32at various points in time.
20:34But just in 2026 itself,
20:36more than 70 delegates
20:38from various countries
20:39have come in as form of a grouping
20:42which is called
20:42the International Institute of Democracy
20:44and Electoral Assistance,
20:46which tabulates all the best practices
20:48and they have come out
20:49and heaped praise
20:50on our election commission.
20:53So, one thing is for sure
20:54that our electoral practices,
20:56the way power exchanges hands
20:58every five years,
21:00the way it is done peacefully,
21:01all of that points
21:02to the credibility
21:03that this core constitutional body
21:05and institution draws
21:07and the kind of praise
21:09that worldwide,
21:10every small and big country
21:12have done so in the past.
21:13Of course, Donald Trump
21:15is trying to bring in our case
21:17specifically by putting it
21:19on Truth Social,
21:20primarily catering
21:21towards his own domestic politics.
21:23He wants to do this
21:24so that there is a bill
21:25which is pending
21:26and he wants to ensure
21:27that the voters in the US
21:29are properly documented
21:30and they have to show
21:31their voting ID.
21:32If you look at the US
21:33electoral process,
21:33it is pretty bizarre that way.
21:35I quickly want to just cut across
21:36and bringing TS Krishnamurti,
21:39former Chief Election Commissioner
21:40of India,
21:41who joins us on this conversation.
21:43Sir, welcome.
21:44Sir, your reading
21:46of endorsement
21:48of India's election system
21:50coming in
21:51from US President
21:52Donald Trump today
21:53and from the Indonesian
21:55government sometime back.
21:57What is your reading
21:58of this entire debate?
22:01Because opposition says
22:02vote surely remains.
22:04Foreign countries
22:05seem to believe
22:05India has a robust
22:07electoral system.
22:08Your reading, sir?
22:08Although the endorsement
22:12by the US President
22:13now is certainly welcome
22:15and to be appreciated,
22:16I should say
22:18that the system
22:20of photo identity card
22:21was introduced
22:23long back in 1993
22:25by one of my distinguished
22:27predecessors,
22:28Mr. P. N. Session.
22:29In fact, he threatened
22:30saying that
22:32no election identity card,
22:34no election at all.
22:35So that was the statement
22:37that the statement he made.
22:39And the election commission
22:40has been
22:42has been improving
22:44the system
22:44of photo identity
22:45not only
22:46in terms of the voter
22:48but also voter role.
22:50We have all,
22:51in fact,
22:51during my period,
22:52we introduced
22:53photo voter roles
22:55so that
22:55the identity
22:56that he brings
22:57and the voter role
22:58also get matched
22:59at the time of the election.
23:01So this is not something
23:03which is
23:03has just come recently.
23:05We have to be conscious
23:07of the fact
23:07that
23:08the job
23:10of identifying
23:11has been taken up
23:12quite seriously.
23:13At a time
23:14when India
23:15conducted
23:16the first election,
23:17there were doubts
23:18about our ability
23:19to conduct the election
23:20both by Indian media
23:22and foreign media.
23:23But we have demonstrated
23:24over the years
23:25that I would say
23:25the credit goes largely
23:26to Mr. Sukumar Sen
23:28who was the first
23:29chief election commissioner
23:30who introduced
23:32many changes
23:33or who introduced
23:34many systems.
23:34and I am glad
23:36that the world
23:37is taking note of it
23:38but we have
23:39no,
23:40we have not been
23:40waiting for any endorsement
23:42from anybody.
23:43Oh, absolutely.
23:44But tell me this,
23:45this was an idea,
23:47a voter identity card
23:49was contemplated
23:51even in the second election,
23:531957,
23:5458,
23:55this process
23:55was thought of.
23:57Initially,
23:58it kind of boomeranged,
23:59it did not succeed.
24:00when did it start
24:02succeeding in phases
24:03before it was
24:04ultimately introduced
24:05in 1993
24:06and then
24:07kept improving
24:08and then 2004
24:09onwards,
24:10you know,
24:11EVMs also came in.
24:13But your,
24:14you know,
24:14if America wanted
24:15to do this
24:16and wanted to do this
24:17now,
24:17how difficult
24:18would it be
24:19for the United States?
24:20Can they replicate it
24:21in a single election cycle
24:23or it will take
24:24decades for them?
24:25So,
24:26immediately after
24:27the independence,
24:28when the first election
24:29was held,
24:30it was a major challenge
24:31because anybody,
24:33the preparation
24:33of voter roll
24:34was indeed
24:35a very difficult job.
24:36They didn't have
24:37an address,
24:38they didn't have
24:38any identity,
24:39proof of citizenship,
24:40etc.
24:41So,
24:41the first election
24:42was conducted
24:43by just accepting
24:44any Indian citizen
24:46offering
24:46to be included
24:47in the voter register.
24:49But it was noticed
24:50in the subsequent
24:51elections,
24:52particularly
24:531957
24:54and 62 elections,
24:56that it was
24:57possible
24:57to impersonate
24:59some of the voters
24:59and thereby,
25:01you know,
25:02affect the quality
25:03of our elections.
25:05So,
25:05sometimes in the
25:071967 onwards,
25:08it was realized
25:09that there is a need
25:10for identification
25:13verification.
25:14And I think
25:15some kind of a study
25:16was made
25:17that after,
25:18I think in 1993,
25:20a bold decision
25:21was taken
25:21that either
25:22you have
25:23an identity card
25:24issued by the
25:25election commission
25:25or a few items
25:27like passport
25:28or ration card
25:29or something
25:30to watch
25:31the identity
25:32of the person.
25:33So,
25:34it was a gradually
25:34evolving process,
25:36but now,
25:37actually,
25:38there is
25:38very little
25:40possibility
25:40of impersonation,
25:42but there is
25:43a system,
25:44actually,
25:44a Swiss firm
25:45came to me
25:46sometime
25:46when I was
25:47in the election
25:47commission
25:48that they have
25:49a kind of a
25:50lesser identity
25:51verification
25:52which we thought
25:54we could introduce,
25:55but it was
25:55very expensive
25:56and hence,
25:57we could not
25:57proceed with that
25:58further.
25:59Okay.
26:00Can the United States
26:01replicate it
26:02in one election
26:03cycle
26:04or will they
26:05also need
26:05decades
26:06to set the
26:08ball rolling
26:08and then fine-tune
26:10that process
26:10should it be
26:11approved by the
26:12US Congress?
26:12The kind of
26:13technology support
26:14that you have,
26:15I am sure,
26:16if it is taken up
26:17in a period of
26:17one year,
26:18I am sure
26:18the election
26:20authorities
26:20can certainly
26:22introduce
26:22photo-identity
26:23card.
26:23There should be
26:24no difficulty.
26:24Sir,
26:25permit me
26:25one more
26:26question.
26:27Does India's
26:28voter identity
26:28card or the
26:30voter ID system
26:32establish proof
26:33of residence
26:34that you can
26:35vote or is it
26:36also proof of
26:38identity,
26:39citizenship,
26:40or are the two
26:41being, you know,
26:42conflated in the
26:43US debate, sir?
26:44I know there is
26:45a debate going on
26:46whether the
26:46election identity
26:47card is a proof
26:48of the citizenship
26:49of the person.
26:50See, the
26:51fundamental
26:51requirement in
26:53collection management
26:53is only the
26:54citizens are
26:55allowed to vote.
26:56So, some
26:57basic verification
26:59is done, but
27:00it is not sure
27:02that it can be
27:03used as a
27:04citizenship
27:04identity.
27:06In fact, for
27:07example, in
27:07Russia, they
27:08have a domestic
27:09passport and a
27:10foreign passport,
27:11which is the
27:12domestic passport
27:13is used as an
27:14identification for
27:15the election
27:15purposes.
27:16So, that
27:17establishes the
27:18citizenship of
27:19the person.
27:20But we don't
27:20have an
27:21absolutely full
27:23proof of
27:23citizenship card
27:24as of now.
27:25In fact, at
27:26one stage, there
27:26was a discussion
27:28by the Home
27:29Ministry to
27:29introduce a
27:30citizenship card,
27:31especially to
27:32start with in the
27:33border states.
27:33I don't know.
27:34But when I was
27:35there, this
27:35discussion took
27:36place.
27:37But I don't
27:37know.
27:37I don't think
27:38there was any
27:38further development
27:39beyond that.
27:40What is your
27:41take on the
27:42opposition alleging
27:43vote-chory?
27:44You know the
27:45system.
27:46You know the
27:46system of SIR.
27:48And I know I'm
27:49digressing for a
27:50moment.
27:51But against the
27:52backdrop of all the
27:53criticism of vote-chory
27:54and stolen elections
27:55in India and the
27:57global endorsement
27:58about India's, you
28:00know, best practices
28:01in democracy, in
28:03elections, how do
28:05you, you know, sink
28:06the two chains of
28:08thoughts, sir?
28:08Gov, unfortunately,
28:10over the years, the
28:12political parties have
28:14been very hostile to
28:15the election
28:16commission and have
28:17been making
28:19allegations about
28:20election management.
28:21I'm not referring to
28:23any particular
28:23political party.
28:24Almost all of them
28:25have their own
28:26grievances.
28:26But as an
28:28impartial, neutral
28:29empire, we have to
28:30go through a
28:32certain system to
28:32ensure that the
28:33voter roll is
28:34perfect and pure.
28:35It is not that it
28:36is absolutely 100%
28:37perfect, but even
28:38if certain
28:39verifications are
28:40there.
28:41For example, when
28:42we were there, we
28:43used to do
28:43crimpeneal revision of
28:44voter roll by
28:46visiting vote-to-do.
28:47That has been
28:48abandoned after
28:502004 or so.
28:52In the 2004
28:53elections, we had
28:54used that system.
28:55But thereafter, we
28:56had given it up.
28:57So when we do the
28:58revision now, the
29:00question is, so
29:01much of deletions and
29:02so much of
29:02additions, are they
29:03fair?
29:04Are they correct?
29:04That questions are
29:05raised.
29:05But in spite of
29:07that, I would say
29:08election commissioners
29:09discharged its
29:10responsibility very
29:11responsibly.
29:13Sir, for joining
29:14me here.
29:15There can be human
29:18aberrations.
29:19I'm not saying it is
29:20100% perfect.
29:21But then we have to
29:22find some method to
29:24ensure that only the
29:25citizens are allowed
29:25to vote.
29:26We cannot allow
29:27non-citizens to vote.
29:29No two ways about
29:30that.
29:31And sir, for joining
29:32me here on this
29:32India Today special
29:33broadcast, T.S.
29:34Krishnamoorthy, former
29:35Chief Election
29:36Commissioner of
29:36India.
29:36Many thanks, sir.
29:40Let me once again
29:41quickly bring back
29:42Dolly Sharma and
29:43Rajat Sethi into
29:44this conversation.
29:45Dolly Sharma, surely
29:47the Congress should be
29:48very proud of this
29:49voter-eye-card system
29:50first proposed in
29:5257.
29:52You heard the
29:53former CEC went
29:55through the process
29:55through 62, 70s,
29:5780s, the Congress
29:59was in power as it
30:00progressed.
30:011993 introduced,
30:022004, again you
30:04had the EVM system.
30:05If it prevents bogus
30:07voting, why is the
30:08Congress and is the
30:09Congress throwing the
30:10baby out with the
30:11bathwater, criticizing
30:12the entire process,
30:14alleging vote
30:14jury?
30:16See, I would read
30:17out, last elections
30:18were West Bengal, you
30:20know, and I would read
30:20out a few names very
30:22clearly.
30:24Why we do not
30:25believe on this SIR?
30:26And Rahul Gandhiji has
30:28done so many press
30:30conferences and given
30:31in, you know, so many
30:33examples also of
30:34Bangalore, of
30:35Haryana, but I would
30:36like to name a few
30:37of West Bengal.
30:38So, each time the
30:39Congress loses an
30:40election, there is
30:41vote jury, but when
30:43Congress wins an
30:44election, you know,
30:45whether it is in
30:46Kerala or in
30:47Karnataka or in
30:49Himachal Pradesh or in
30:50Telangana, there is
30:51no vote jury.
30:53You know, they
30:54cannot do it in the
30:56entire country because
30:57then people will feel
30:58but also today also
30:59people are feeling
31:00because, you know, I
31:01would read out a few
31:02names, you know, just
31:03for example, an Indian
31:05No, an isolated few
31:06names doesn't help.
31:07Those names should be
31:08taken to courts of law.
31:10Television channel is
31:11not courts of law.
31:12But I only want to ask
31:13you the broader picture,
31:15Dolly Sharma, when the
31:17Congress wins an
31:17election in Kerala, if
31:19the Congress wins an
31:20election or any
31:21opposition ruled party,
31:22you know, opposition
31:24party wins an election
31:25in any state, there is
31:26no vote jury there.
31:27There is only vote jury
31:28if Congress loses.
31:31Gaurav Ji, leave one or
31:33two states, which state
31:34is leaving?
31:35It's going to be
31:35dismayed all the states.
31:36I'm sorry to say.
31:38But very logically, I
31:39was giving a few names
31:40to you.
31:41Ma'am, those names
31:42should go in courts of
31:43law.
31:43Those names should go in
31:45courts of law.
31:46Be challenged there.
31:47I also want to bring in
31:49Rajat Sethi because I
31:50want to come to the
31:50Vande Maatram debate
31:51also very quickly.
31:52Rajat Sethi, merit in
31:54the criticism that there
31:56is vote chori which is
31:57happening very
31:58scientifically, select
32:01constituencies, select
32:02names, you know,
32:03opposition names are
32:04removed and those who
32:06may vote for the ruling
32:06party, those names are
32:08retained.
32:09I think in short, if I
32:10were to say, you know,
32:12if you genuinely feel
32:13that our electoral process
32:15is rigged and our
32:17courts are also rigged
32:18and every single
32:19institution under this
32:20constitution is rigged,
32:21why do you participate
32:22in the elections?
32:23Just try sitting out.
32:25I mean, the basic thing
32:26is that you have to
32:28participate also.
32:29You have to win.
32:30You have to take oath,
32:31become ministers and
32:32chief ministers, but at
32:33the same time, keep
32:34creating, you know,
32:36doubtful seeds in the
32:37minds of the people.
32:38You're pouring acid onto
32:40the roots of our
32:41constitutional bodies.
32:42You try to create
32:43distrust without taking
32:45one logical case.
32:46to the courts and
32:47finding remedies to
32:48the proposed or
32:52accused incidents and
32:53events that have
32:53happened in the past.
32:54Till date, Bihar
32:55election, that was a
32:56central issue.
32:57Not a single formal
32:58complaint was ever
32:59filed.
33:00West Bengal, this was a
33:01central issue.
33:01They went to the
33:02courts.
33:02The courts, you know,
33:04heard them out and
33:05you look at the final
33:06outcome.
33:07I mean, the problem is
33:08that if you're not
33:08able to prove and if
33:10you...
33:10I did not intervene.
33:11I did not intervene.
33:13Go to the court, stop
33:15blabbering here.
33:16Please, ma'am, respectfully,
33:17please keep quiet.
33:19Please keep quiet.
33:20I did not yield.
33:21One by one.
33:22Dolly, sir, I'll come
33:23back to you to respond.
33:24Rajat Sethi, let him
33:25complete his point.
33:25Ma'am, I'm coming to
33:26you.
33:27See, again, as you
33:28said, Gaurav, these
33:29things cannot be settled
33:30in a debate.
33:31It is pointless if I
33:32were to say anything, if
33:33Dolly madam has to say
33:35anything.
33:35All that she needs to do
33:36is to file a petition
33:37before the court.
33:38There are legal
33:39procedures in order to
33:40do that.
33:40But Mr. Prince
33:41Link, Rahul Gandhi, he
33:43feels that he can bypass
33:44all of those processes
33:45and whatever he says is
33:46the rule of the law.
33:47That does not work in
33:48this country.
33:49It is not how
33:50democracies work.
33:51If you have doubt, go
33:52there.
33:52Don't try to piggyback
33:54your politics onto the
33:55election commission.
33:56And the moot topic
33:57here is that...
33:58Let me get Dolly
33:58Sharma to respond to
33:59what you are saying,
34:00but you should respond
34:00to what Dolly
34:01Sharma says.
34:02There are several
34:02cases that are pending
34:04in courts, haven't
34:05been decided yet, but
34:07election outcomes have
34:08already been decided,
34:09sir.
34:09Rajat Sethi, quickly
34:10respond before I bring
34:11in Dolly Sharma.
34:12See, again, my problem
34:14is that how do you
34:15settle this discussion?
34:16If you believe that
34:17the election outcome
34:18has been affected
34:20and you cannot
34:21reverse those things,
34:22there are ways,
34:23there are 45 days
34:24interval in which you
34:25have to pick applications
34:26and be very concrete
34:27about it.
34:28You cannot try and
34:29paint the whole state
34:30election as red and
34:31just walk out of it.
34:33That is not how a
34:34responsible opposition
34:35should have functioned.
34:36If you genuinely have
34:37any grounds...
34:37Respond to the BJP
34:40claiming when Congress
34:42wins, elections are
34:43great.
34:44You know, the credit
34:45goes to Rahul Gandhi,
34:46but when Congress
34:47loses, they do not
34:48want the same blame to
34:50go to the party
34:51leadership, so they
34:52blame the EVM and
34:53insulate the party
34:54leadership.
34:55Gaurav ji, whether we
34:57win or we lose,
34:58everybody is questioning
35:00SIR because there are
35:02so many cases pending
35:03in the courts and they
35:04conducted elections.
35:06There were several
35:07names of man who
35:08served Indian Air
35:09Force.
35:10His name was cut.
35:10There are many, many
35:11names.
35:12There were elderlies
35:13whose name were not
35:15there in the list,
35:16but then also elections
35:18were conducted.
35:19No, I can name out of
35:20you if you want.
35:21Masooda Bibi,
35:22all right,
35:23Amir and Bega,
35:24Mali and Family,
35:25Soberna, Mondal,
35:27Sukla, Hajra.
35:29I have so many
35:30names.
35:30Mohammed, Shephal,
35:31Alam.
35:31There are so many,
35:33so many, 36
35:34people whose cases
35:36were pending and
35:37how can they
35:37conduct, could not,
35:38they cannot wait.
35:39Fair enough.
35:40So, we've got you
35:41all sides of the
35:42story, but I have to
35:43shift focus to the
35:44other big story we're
35:46tracking here on India
35:46first and that is
35:47the Vande Matram
35:49controversy that's
35:50escalated.
35:51Now, already facing
35:52backlash over Sonia
35:54Gandhi's alleged
35:55gesture, the BJP
35:57claims Sonia Gandhi
35:58made a gesture to
35:59stop Vande Matram.
36:02You know, the
36:03Congress party is
36:04now actually saying
36:06that only two
36:07stanzas would be
36:07sung.
36:08That's only two
36:08stanzas were sung
36:09even in Goa.
36:11In the presence of
36:12party president
36:12Mallikarjun Kharge,
36:13only the first two
36:14stanzas of the
36:15national song were
36:16sung, the remaining
36:17four were left
36:18out.
36:18The move that the
36:19Congress is now
36:20strongly defending.
36:21Mallikarjun Kharge
36:22has justified the
36:23two stanzas saying
36:25this is the version
36:26that was sung for
36:26decades by leaders
36:27including Mahatma
36:28Gandhi, Pandit
36:29Jawaharlal Nehru,
36:31former prime
36:31ministers, including
36:32current prime
36:33minister Narendra
36:34Modi when he was
36:34chief minister of
36:35Gujarat.
36:35If the BJP has
36:37an issue, let it
36:38file cases against
36:39all of them.
36:40The controversy has
36:41taken a very
36:42personal turn.
36:43Union minister HD
36:45Kumaraswamy has
36:46hit out, he's made
36:47a personal jibe, a
36:49personal attack at
36:49Sonia Gandhi, words
36:51to the effect that
36:52she has Italian
36:53blood running
36:54through her veins.
36:55She won't
36:56understand Vande
36:57Maturam or its
36:58importance.
36:59We get you more
36:59in this report.
37:03Patriotism has
37:03become the biggest
37:04political weapon
37:05and Vande
37:06Maturam is the
37:07fault line.
37:08It began with a
37:10controversy over an
37:11alleged stop gesture
37:12by Sonia Gandhi
37:13during the rendition
37:13of the national song
37:14on independent
37:15state.
37:17Then came clips
37:19released by the
37:20Bhartya Janata
37:20party in which
37:21Rahul Gandhi
37:22allegedly says,
37:23we do not need
37:24to sing Vande
37:24Maturam.
37:30And now the
37:31latest flashpoint.
37:32At a congress
37:33event in Goa,
37:34the party sang only
37:35the first two
37:36stanzas of Vande
37:37Maturam while
37:38the remaining four
37:38left out of the
37:39rendition.
37:42This was in the
37:43presence of party
37:44president Malik
37:45Arjun Khadgi.
37:46The BJP has
37:47seized on this
37:48episode alleging
37:49that the congress
37:49has a problem
37:50with anything
37:51that evokes
37:51patriotism.
38:12But the congress
38:13says there is
38:14nothing
38:14controversial
38:14about singing
38:15only the first
38:16two stanzas.
38:18Khadgi claims
38:18the party sang
38:19the same version
38:20that Mahatma Gandhi
38:21and Jawaharlal Nehru
38:22had sunk.
38:23And the same
38:23version that
38:24Prime Minister
38:24Modi sang for
38:2512 years as
38:26Gujarat chief
38:27minister.
38:28Khadgi also
38:29hit bucket home
38:29minister Amit Shah
38:30over his
38:31criticism,
38:31telling him not
38:32to lecture the
38:33congress party
38:34on patriotism.
38:57The 1D Madaram controversy
38:59has now taken a
39:00personal turn.
39:01Union Minister Hrikumaraswamy has launched a personal attack on Sonia Gandhi, questioning
39:06her Indian roots over her alleged gesture during the rendition of Vande Mataram.
39:33The Congress has now hit back, calling the remarks extremely low level and saying Sonia
39:38Gandhi has made many sacrifices for the country.
39:53What began as a debate over a national song has become a full-blown political battle over
39:57patriotism.
39:58The question is no longer about who sang Vande Mataram, but who gets to define what patriotism
40:05really means.
40:06Bureau Report, India Today.
40:11To sing or not to sing all the six stanzas of the national song Vande Mataram, the law says
40:17yes, Congress says we'll sing only the first two stanzas and this is the nerve of that intense
40:24political battle that's escalated.
40:26BK Hari Prasad, senior Karnataka Congress leader, he's insisting we will sing only the first
40:31two stanzas whether they put us in jail.
40:33Heavy Industries Minister H.D. Kumaraswamy. You've heard him. He's made it downright personal.
40:39What else can you expect from Sonia Gandhi? Is Sonia Gandhi from our country? She comes from
40:43a country after marriage. The blood flowing in her is Italian blood. Isn't it a words to
40:50that effect? The knives very clearly are out.
40:53Rajat Sethi and Dolly Sharma. Stay with me. Sanju Verma, national spokesperson of the BJP,
40:58joins us on this broadcast. Welcome. Sanju Verma, the Congress has made it very clear.
41:03They will sing only the first two stanzas, not the entire Vande Mataram. Is that a challenge
41:09that's been thrown at the government?
41:12You know, Gaurav, let's get one thing very clear. Congress is a debilitated opposition
41:17party. BJP is running the government today, along with its alliance partners. And 2026 is
41:24not 1937. 89 years have passed since 1937. The reason I'm talking of 1937 is because on a
41:32zillion debates in the last 72 hours, Congress spokespeople keep saying, but in 1937, we had
41:41decided we will only sing two stanzas. What has changed? What has changed is that the prevention
41:47of insult to National Honor Act of 1971 has been amended in 2026 by the Modi government saying
41:53all six stanzas should be sung. And point number one, all six stanzas take how much time? Three
41:59minutes, 10 seconds. Point number two, if somebody deliberately insults the national song or the
42:05national anthem or the national flag, then there is a minimum of three to five years of imprisonment
42:11and penalty. So the BJP is not the one who's going to be facing the challenge. The gauntlet
42:17is thrown at the Congress party and its head honcho, super boss, Sonia Gandhi, who on Independence
42:24Day looked so upset, so visibly angry. She seemed so rattled. And you know, she's clearly seen
42:31saying, this is not our version. Excuse me, Madam Sonia Gandhi. There is nothing called your
42:36version of Vandai Matram versus my version of Vandai Matram. There is only one version of
42:42Vandai Matram, which means… Let me get Dolly Sharma to respond.
42:51So the images that went viral on August 15, what was it? Was Sonia Gandhi actually saying
42:58stop as the BJP alleges after the first two stanzas of Vandai Matram or was she actually
43:04seeking a chair for Malikarjun Kharge to sit because, you know, he was tired and he'd been
43:09standing for quite some time. Gaurav ji, I think Jairam Ramesh ji, the communication
43:15head of the Congress party has made it very clear, number one. Number two, I was listening
43:20to Sanju Verma. I just want to ask, you know, please show me the act, the section and the
43:27rule, which makes every Indian citizen legally bound to sing all the six stanzas of Vandai
43:32Matram, not a political speech, you know. Show me the law. Show me the law. You know, if she
43:39knows it better, I want to know which law, which section. And I want to make her very clear,
43:45you know, the Ministry of Home Affairs issued an advisory protocol in February 2026 regarding
43:52the redemption of Vandai Matram including full six stanzas version of specified official occasions.
43:59Right? So, there is no law, no section, no, they are not, no, no citizen is bound to sing
44:08six stanzas and BJP is nobody. Because, you know, if they say so, that means Sardar
44:15detail was wrong, that means Gandhiji was wrong, every freedom fighter.
44:22Sanju Verma wants to respond to you once you have completed your point.
44:24Sanju Verma in hand and singing Vandai Matram everywhere in front of the Britishers was wrong.
44:31Fair enough, ma'am, you have made your point. Sanju Verma wants to, wants to give the
44:36legal position on this before I bring in Rajat Sethi. Go on, ma'am.
44:40No, I didn't give the legal position first. The Congress spokesperson said, BJP is nothing.
44:46BJP has given you the dhajjya vradi.
44:48Three people have been killed in the Congress party in Rahul Gandhi's
44:52Congress party. So, you think and say, you were routed in Uttar Pradesh, routed in Maharashtra, routed in Uttarakhand, routed
44:59in Haryana, routed in Delhi.
45:00Get a little shame. They go out and say, we don't get scared from BJP.
45:05Don't get scared and get out. Uttar Pradesh will also die in 2027.
45:09Gaurav Ji, you have to give me 30 seconds to answer this.
45:13As soon as she completes her point, absolutely, ma'am.
45:16Can I finish? Gaurav, let me finish.
45:18Go on, ma'am.
45:19Gaurav, let us get to the crux of the whole thing.
45:22Vande Matram, the fact that now it has the same status as the national anthem,
45:28it has the same status as the national flag, is already there.
45:32White Section 21-3, Section 25-2-C, and Section 26-1-D of the amended act, that's the legal
45:40position.
45:41But very quickly, tell me, Gaurav, do you need a law for Rahul Gandhi to attend the Red Fort Independence
45:46Day celebration?
45:47He did not attend. Mr. Khaddi did not attend.
45:50Rahul Gandhi did not attend the Republic Day Parade of 2026.
45:54And Gaurav, my final point.
45:56Rahul Gandhi is so arrogant, he did not even attend the current Vice President CP Radha Krishnan's oath-taking ceremony.
46:03Kaya Vice President BJP-K agent hai?
46:06Rahul Gandhi did not attend the oath-taking ceremony of former CJI Sanjeev Khanna and current CJI Suryakam.
46:12Suryakam ji, kaya BJP-K agent hai? Rahul Gandhi is an unmitigated anti-national disaster.
46:19So, ma'am, that's a very serious charge to make against the leader of opposition.
46:23And on what basis are you substantiating it?
46:26Because Dolly Sharma wants to respond to you.
46:27Sanjeev Gaurav, Dolly Sharma, quickly respond before I bring in Rajat Sethi.
46:31Yeah. Gaurav, you know what is Vande Matram?
46:34They will not understand what is Vande Matram.
46:36Vande Matram is giving jobs to the youth.
46:39Fulfilling the promises that they made in every election.
46:42And repairing the education system country-wide.
46:48You see the condition of the schools where Gen Z and Info are Gen L.
46:54Okay. Ma'am, just let Dolly Sharma complete a point.
46:58I mean, I don't know.
47:00Don't skip the goalpost.
47:01Don't skip the goalpost.
47:03Please talk to Vande Matram.
47:05Okay, only Dolly Sharma for the moment. Respond, ma'am.
47:08Yeah. Real Vande Matram is fulfilling the promises that you made to the citizen of this country.
47:16Please stop the paper leaks happening.
47:19Yesterday also happened, you know.
47:20Give jobs.
47:22Give good schools.
47:24Give good hospitals.
47:26If I give you an example of Ghaziabad,
47:29that is my constituency from where I contested parliament.
47:32There is not a single ventilator in a hospital.
47:35And member of parliament is of the Bharatiya Junta party,
47:395 MLA's, 80 councillors.
47:42And there is no ventilator.
47:43This is the real Vande Matram that BJP is not able to.
47:47We do not want slogans.
47:49India does not need slogans.
47:50India needs delivery now.
47:52When they cannot deliver, they die for.
47:54And this is again a die for.
47:55Sure, but should it be an either or or both?
47:58You know, you asked what is Vande Matram.
48:01Let me bring in Rajat Sethi.
48:03Let me bring in Rajat Sethi.
48:05Because Vande Matram was actually adopted by the Congress in 1896.
48:11Abandoned its own legacy.
48:13And that's the question I'm asking you.
48:15First sung in the Indian National Congress in 1896 by Gurudev Ravindranath Tagore himself.
48:20It was actually a battle cry for India's freedom struggle against the British.
48:25Against the British efforts to divide and rule.
48:28It was against communal lines.
48:30Hindus and Muslims were marching together singing Vande Matram in 1906.
48:35And these are historical records.
48:37How can Vande Matram and that time there was no distinction in 1906.
48:41Two stanzas or six stanzas.
48:42If it united everyone, then why is it dividing us now?
48:46Unless that same British policy of divide and rule is being pursued even today.
48:53So Gaurav, you know, this Vande Matram and the motherly swaroop of the embodiment of our national fight
49:00was very well captured by Vande Matram.
49:04And it was sung all throughout till the first opposition came from Muhammad Ali Jinnah.
49:10So that Jinnah's DNA still lingers.
49:14That political DNA of Jinnah is to divide and rule our society still carries on
49:19and it finds a lot of interesting manifestations in the Congress party.
49:23If you see the funny turn of events over the last three days.
49:26On the 15th of August, when Sonia Gandhi ji and Khadge ji were actually,
49:30before the camera they were identified trying to stop Vande Matram.
49:34You look at what happened after that.
49:36The Congress leaders like Jairam Ramesh came out and said,
49:39no, no, no, we did not come in between Vande Matram.
49:42We were just asking and requesting for a chair.
49:44So the guilt was there.
49:46Clearly they were feeling that, you know, this is going to haunt us
49:50and this imagery, that video is going to really haunt us throughout.
49:53But over the next three days, what they figured out was that,
49:56let us go back to our Muslim pandering and Muslim vote bank politics.
49:59Because they somehow felt that this is one possibility in which they can attract back the Muslim vote
50:04by trying to create discord and this is why.
50:07See, nobody asked them.
50:07BJP did not make this, I think, as a major political issue.
50:11But today, Hari Prasad, Khadge ji, all of these people came out
50:15and tried to dig a pit and jump into it.
50:17Why were they doing it?
50:18Go into the analysis of it.
50:20They deliberately did this because of political reasons.
50:22They want to dog whistle the minorities of our country to say that we are trying to protect.
50:28We are trying to act as a wall between Vande Matram and you.
50:31Sir, this is directly made a charge of the Congress.
50:34I have to get the Congress to respond to that before I bring in Sanju Verma.
50:37Sanju Verma, give me 30 seconds.
50:39Dolly Sharma, you want to respond to this?
50:40That this is Muslim appeasement politics of the Congress party that only first two stanzas
50:47and not the remaining four.
50:49See, whatever they say, whenever it is convenient for them,
50:54sometimes Pradhan Mantri says,
50:55all of us, all of us, all of us.
50:57So, all of us, all of us, all of us, all of us, we forget.
51:01And I want to remind them, 1941, when in Bengal,
51:05Shama Prasad Mukherjee joined the Fazluk Haq Ministry.
51:08Who was he?
51:10He was the one who proposed to Pakistan.
51:15So, this is the one who believes in the government.
51:20Okay.
51:21Sanju Verma, 30 seconds that I have on this part of the show.
51:24I want you to respond to the Congress saying,
51:27real Vande Matram is provide jobs, provide ventilators and hospitals.
51:32This is just creating a controversy ahead of elections.
51:36Sanju Verma.
51:38You know, Gaurana, I need my 30 seconds. Thank you so much.
51:41Gaurana, I just want to say one thing.
51:43BJP has created 18 crore jobs in the past 12 years.
51:48The world's largest health insurance scheme, Ayushman Bharat.
51:51The world's largest sanitation scheme, Swach Bharat.
51:54The world's largest self-employment scheme, Mudra Yojana.
51:57The world's largest poverty eradication scheme via the direct benefit transfer.
52:03More than 50 lakh crore has been directly transferred into the bank accounts
52:06of the poor and weaker sections of the society.
52:09Pradhan Mantri, Fasal Bhima Yojana.
52:11Pradhan Mantri, you know, Kisan Samman Midhi Yojana.
52:1511 crore farmers have got 4 and a half lakh crore directly into their accounts.
52:20So, Congress party says, BJP, Vandev Matram, Gauribi, Hattana kaise hai.
52:26Ya, Logo tak, you know, last mile delivery kaise karni hai.
52:29We don't need lectures from them.
52:31We don't need lectures from Congress party.
52:34Fair enough.
52:34But the point, you know, you've made a fair point, but the point that the Congress party makes
52:39is leak-proof NTA so that our children have a brighter future.
52:44The opposition says that's true, Vandev Matram.
52:48While that is, where is the problem in singing all the stanzas of Vandev Matram?
52:53It's a song that united our country in our struggle against the British.
52:58Why should it be seen as divisive today?
53:00I leave it to our viewers to judge for themselves.
53:04I want to thank all our guests.
53:05A quick break.
53:07News and updates continue on India Today.
53:09Stay nice.
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