00:00Ethan Sands. Ethan, good morning, brother. How are you?
00:02Good morning, good morning. I'm happy to be here.
00:04Happy LeBron James made a decision. Let's get into it.
00:07Let's get into it. What was your initial reaction to LeBron's decision?
00:10It makes sense. It makes sense from a basketball standpoint.
00:14It's the best situation for him to try and win a championship.
00:17And obviously we understand what they built over there.
00:21The roster instruction with Tyrese Maxey, with Jalen Brown, with Joel Embiid.
00:26And obviously you look around and you think about what moves they had to make
00:31to get into the situation that they are now.
00:33And it became more enticing to LeBron James because of the movement that they did
00:38to prepare themselves to be in this Eastern Conference hierarchy
00:42and an upper echelon team.
00:44And now we're trying to figure out what other teams are going to make moves
00:48around the margins to try and compete with them.
00:50And also trying to figure out what moves the Cavs can make
00:54at the latter portion of this offseason to be in preparation to contend
00:59in the 2026-2027 season.
01:03We're obviously going to get into, Ethan, what some of those moves might look like
01:06for the Cavs, and I think some are more obvious than others at this point.
01:09But in relation to the basketball fit part, I think what you said is fair.
01:15The Sixers went out and got Jalen Brown.
01:17They made this team that looked very enticing to LeBron to win a championship.
01:20But I've heard a lot of people sort of speculating on the Cavs' fit
01:25and what that would have looked like.
01:26And some even saying it was James Harden's presence that sort of deterred
01:30LeBron from being here.
01:31What do you say in response to that?
01:34Do you think that was something that ultimately cost the Cavs LeBron James?
01:39Or do you think that that was something that he would have been able to work with?
01:42I think there were analysts saying that, right?
01:45But I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Rich Paul took to his own podcast
01:48and discussed that there was no beef or there was no thought
01:53that James Harden was going to be holding back LeBron James in any capacity,
01:57also understanding they're two of the best passers of all time.
02:01As much as James Harden loves to dribble the basketball arguably too much,
02:05we've seen that he can still increase the value of other players around him.
02:10And I think even if you were to put on a lineup of, in a hypothetical world, obviously,
02:16James Harden, Sam Merrill, Max Drew, LeBron James, and one of your favorite bigs,
02:21and Evan Mobley or Jared Allen, I think that's a lineup or a secondary unit
02:25that the Cavs would have been able to put on the floor that makes a difference.
02:28That is, not only defensively you have different things that you can do,
02:33but also offensively, of course, you have the spacing, the shooting,
02:36and the passing that makes everybody a threat.
02:38So, yes, there were lineups that the Cavs could have put together
02:42with LeBron James and James Harden on the floor, even at the same time,
02:45that would have been beneficial for this Cavs organization, for this Cavs team.
02:50So, I don't think we can say that James Harden was the deterring factor,
02:54especially if he's the one that was willing to take a pay cut
02:58and decline his player option in a situation where LeBron James was going to come here.
03:03And that was the only reason that James Harden took a pay cut
03:07or even opted out of his player option was because he thought it would be beneficial
03:12to trying to bring LeBron James on.
03:14So, I'm not in the boat of trying to put blame on James Harden
03:17for being incapable of getting LeBron James to come to Cleveland.
03:21For me, it's obviously a little bit more of the Cavs' unwillingness
03:26to make moves around the margins beforehand,
03:28whether that's trading Evan Mobley to get Jalen Brown or Giannis Antetokounmpo.
03:33This roster was not enticing enough or fit enough to win a championship
03:39as it's constructed currently for LeBron James to think it was better suited
03:43than the Philadelphia 76ers.
03:45And we can talk about the moves that they didn't make all day
03:47to where Blue in the Face, but there's the understanding that LeBron chose Philadelphia
03:52because of what he believes they can accomplish this next season,
03:56and that was in comparison to what the Cleveland Cavaliers might not be able to.
04:00Ethan, when you look at what Dan Gilbert tweeted out back in May,
04:05he said, we will dig in all summer and do everything we possibly can
04:08to take that next step.
04:10We will grind until we get there.
04:12And then all three of us have had the conversation to where it seemed like
04:15there was so much hesitation to trade Evan Mobley.
04:18And I guess this is a two-part question.
04:20I'm sure you've done your poking around.
04:22How realistic was the options that came about with the Jalen Brown and Giannis
04:28and even the Jalen Williams and OKC?
04:32And why do you think this offseason overall hadn't turned out the way that Dan Gilbert
04:37envisioned for the Cleveland Cavaliers?
04:39I think in all honesty, the beginning portion of the offseason,
04:43there was so much speculation of whether or not Donovan Mitchell was going to sign
04:47an extension this summer or next summer.
04:49And because next summer he could have signed a max contract that would have been
04:54$80 million more than what he signed for this season,
04:57it put this difficult situation on the Cleveland Cavaliers where they understood
05:04that if they traded away Evan Mobley and then Donovan Mitchell didn't sign here
05:09and walked because they couldn't offer him or didn't want to offer him this max contract
05:15when he turned 31 years old, that they were going to be in rebuild mode because you lose
05:21your two-star players.
05:22And up until Donovan Mitchell signed that extension this summer, there was this speculation behind
05:28the scenes.
05:28So when he did that, then you already have Jalen Brown and Giannis Antetokounmpo traded other
05:34places.
05:35So it was kind of too late at that point for the Cavs to maneuver or be even heavier in
05:40these conversations for Evan Mobley to potentially be traded for Giannis Antetokounmpo or Jalen Brown.
05:46And obviously it's been reported already that they weren't even considering to trade Evan Mobley
05:53for Jalen Brown, which I think is a little bit underwhelming when we talk about exactly what
05:58you said, Dan Gilbert tweeting out that they were nowhere close to where they wanted to be
06:04after making it to the Eastern Conference Finals, but obviously getting swept in four games
06:09by the New York Knicks.
06:10So I do understand that the Cavs needed to make moves this offseason, but they were in
06:15a precarious situation where if they weren't cautious, they could end up in a rebuild mode
06:20rather than contending for a championship.
06:22And that was contingent on the contract of Donovan Mitchell signing an extension, a four-year
06:28extension, which he did this summer, rather than signing one next year, which would have
06:32been even more money.
06:34And Evan Mobley, not only his development, his growth, but understanding that he is still
06:38a franchise cornerstone that this organization is relying on and maybe over-reliant on when
06:45it comes to his development and where they believe he can be, because he is just a 25-year-old
06:51trying to figure out who he's going to be in this league.
06:54But again, he's entering his fifth year in the NBA, and by this time in people's career,
07:00you have a good understanding of who they could be and whether or not this is just the reality
07:05of what Evan Mobley is going to be bringing.
07:07But I'm intrigued to see what he does in 26-27 to increase his standing with the organization
07:13and the fan base.
07:14So, Ethan, are you at this point, as you talk about Evan Mobley, do you feel that the Cavs
07:22are right to stand by Evan as this franchise cornerstone, or do you think that this was
07:29the time to move him, and what we've seen to this point is who he is?
07:32I think that the Cavs should have moved, because I think Giannis Antetokounmpo was one of the
07:39best top five players in the NBA, right?
07:42Evan Mobley could become that, but there is an understanding of what a championship window
07:48is.
07:48There's an understanding of what the Eastern Conference hierarchy is looking like, right?
07:53I was in the boat that they should have moved on from Evan Mobley at the trade deadline when
07:57they traded for James Harden, because they had the chance to do it then, and they had more
08:03draft capital then, obviously, as well.
08:06So, I do think it's important to continue to bring up that this Cavs organization was
08:12placed in a situation where they had arguably the best player for other teams to trade for
08:19an Evan Mobley, whether that's for Giannis or Jalen Brown or whoever you may think, and
08:25they chose not to.
08:27So, I do think that last season was the best chance for the Cleveland Cavaliers to win a
08:32championship, and they opted not to.
08:34And now they're in a situation where they have to make marginal moves that we don't
08:38know if they will make a tangible difference in increasing their chances of winning a championship
08:43or even contending in an Eastern Conference that continuously gets stronger around them,
08:48particularly this offseason.
08:50I think the Cavaliers like you, Ethan, had the opportunity to swing big this offseason.
08:55And I told Spencer, and I'm curious to know what you think about this, that maybe, you
09:01know, there was a little fear created there for Kobe Altman or a little doubt created because
09:07if we go back a couple years ago, there was the rumors of the reported package that San
09:12Antonio put together to trade for Darius Garland.
09:15And then you fast forward to where we are now, the rumors of OKC possibly wanting to trade
09:19for Evan Mobley or Boston wanting to trade for Evan Mobley or even Milwaukee.
09:24All organizations that have won a championship.
09:28And I tried to kind of pick his brain a little bit, him being Kobe Altman, to where, you know
09:32what?
09:33Maybe all these different people that's from championship organizations want my players.
09:38Maybe I'm missing something.
09:41And so maybe that created a little bit of fear and reluctancy of wanting to move on.
09:46Do you think that could have been the case based on who called?
09:49Yeah, I think there's obviously the potential for that to be the case.
09:53But I also understand where Kobe Altman's coming from.
09:57Like, this is a roster that he's constructed, that he's believed in, that we've had conversations
10:02with him after almost every season where he's saying this is only year one or two or three
10:07of this grouping, and then also bringing in James Harden.
10:10And you know that they played 25 games together in the regular season before having to step
10:15into the postseason fire pit, right?
10:19And now they have an entire offseason together.
10:22They have training camp.
10:23They have time to really mesh with this roster.
10:26But to me, I'm still worried about the wing depth of this team, this organization, because
10:32we know Max Struis is 6'5", and is a great shooter, a great player.
10:36He brings fire, and all these things.
10:38But there is an understanding that he also has trouble guarding true small forwards.
10:44Then you talk about the conversation of potentially starting Jalen Tyson at that three position.
10:48He's 6'6", he's sturdy, he's strong, he was one of the best shooters in the NBA last season.
10:54But he's also just entering his third season.
10:57So there's definitely different variations to this conversation of what the Cavs can do in
11:03their wing performance.
11:04But then the biggest thing is, they only have one player at the wing position above 6'6".
11:11And that's Naquan Tomlin.
11:12Naquan Tomlin is a raw prospect that is still learning his game.
11:17He shot around 25% from three-point range last season.
11:20That's not going to get it done.
11:22And we understand what he can bring energy-wise.
11:25But he truly wasn't a rotational piece.
11:27So in an era of the NBA where long, lengthy wings are the capital in our currency, the Cavs
11:36are not in that boat where they have a lot to kind of work with in that department.
11:42So I do think it's interesting to take in perspective what Kobe Altman is thinking about
11:46behind the scenes about his construction of this roster.
11:49But there's also the fairness of being critical of what they haven't done to this point to
11:54improve around the margins to increase their chances of winning a championship because that
12:00has been the goal.
12:01And as Dan Gilbert said, that they're going to do whatever it took to be in that positioning.
12:06And to this point, the Cavs have only been losing players.
12:10They haven't really added anything other than the extension of Donovan Mitchell, signing Craig
12:15Porter Jr.'s team option, fourth-year option, and bringing back Thomas Bryant.
12:20So what have they done to get better is my question.
12:24Yeah, it's a fair question, Ethan, for sure.
12:28I want to sort of go a different direction because there's like four other things I want
12:31to ask you.
12:31We only have so much time left.
12:32But I know you're not from here, but you've been around this team enough.
12:38You've been around this fan base enough.
12:40You've been in Cleveland long enough to understand what the relationship this city has with LeBron
12:45is like.
12:46What do you think this decision, if anything, does to his legacy here in Cleveland, but
12:52also on a national scale?
12:55I think his legacy in Cleveland is cemented, right?
13:00You cannot take away the 2016 championship.
13:02You will never be able to take away the hometown hero that had the weight of the city to create
13:09and protect the promise that he brought that he was going to bring a championship to Cleveland,
13:13being the only player to be able to do so, ending a 52-year drought, but also knowing
13:20that, I mean, LeBron has gone elsewhere, and especially this decision here where you had
13:26the potential to end the storybook ending with coming back and finishing your career in
13:31the place that it all started with a team that you potentially could have helped win another
13:36championship.
13:36So I do think it is 100% okay for fans to be upset, devastated, disappointed, whatever
13:45words you want to use with the decision of LeBron James.
13:48But you also have to understand that he's ring-chasing.
13:51He's trying to chase wins, and he's trying to put himself in a category that is in competition
13:59with Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, that have five championships, six championships, right?
14:04And I do think that he wants to do something that those guys were incapable of doing, which
14:11is ending their career on top, ending their career with a championship.
14:17And if he can do that, he ends his story in a different way.
14:20And I think he made the decision to go to Philadelphia because he believed it was the best chance for
14:26him to do so.
14:27We got to go.
14:28We got about 45 seconds.
14:30Let me just ask you this, yes or no, just to keep it tight.
14:32Like, Jonathan Kaminga's name is the name that's been tossed around a lot.
14:37But yes or no, did Cleveland Cavaliers make a major move of significance via trade before
14:41the start of the season?
14:43Of significance, I say no, because I don't think there is a player on the margins right
14:48now that could create a difference for them in the Eastern Conference.
14:53Do they make a move?
14:54Potentially.
14:55So I'm going to go with no, as it's contingent to what they're doing and how it's going to
15:01affect their standing.
15:02Ethan, man, go be great today.
15:04Get you some nice lunch.
15:05Get you a drink in.
15:06You want to enjoy the rest of your Saturday.
15:08I appreciate you guys having me on.
15:09Always fun talking to you.
15:11Enjoy the rest of your day.
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