00:00Where a cleanliness drive launched by the Tinsukia Municipal Board in Assam has now drawn national attention.
00:08The municipality's Hall of Shame campaign uses CCTV cameras installed at several locations across Tinsukia and Assam
00:15to name and shame public urinators.
00:19One of the largest industrial hubs of Assam, Tinsukia, is now identifying people
00:24allegedly caught urinating in public or littering.
00:27Images captured by the cameras are then displayed on LED screens at prominent locations in the town,
00:33with officials hoping the public display will act as a deterrent and encourage cleaner civic behaviour.
00:42Meanwhile, Rajya Sabha MP Milan Diora wants Mumbai's civic body to adopt the same model.
00:48Earlier, the Mysore City Corporation installed mirrors along a wall near the suburban bus stand
00:54to discourage public urination.
00:56All of this has led to a larger debate where Indians are concerned.
01:02One has to admit where it comes down to civic sense.
01:07We need a bit more there.
01:09And is it just a civic issue, a cultural issue, a gender issue, whatever it might be.
01:15It is time now, instead of just please, and we had that with the Prime Minister 12 years ago
01:21from the ramparts of the Red Fort where he pledged Swach Bharat.
01:25Now, the please need to, there needs to be a crackdown, many would suggest.
01:30Extract fines if you find public urinators or those who litter in public, or public humiliation.
01:37And there are lots of trains of thought on that.
01:40Joining me right now is comedian Cyrus Brocha.
01:45Thank you, Cyrus, for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
01:48My first question.
01:49We've had the likes from your city, Milan Diora, who's an MP,
01:53who has advocated adopting the ASAM model of naming and shaming public urinators.
01:59Do you agree? What's your take?
02:06I'm very, firstly, I'm very pro-Milan Diora.
02:08Whichever party he goes to, I follow him like a Pomeranian.
02:12I think he's spot on.
02:15You know, we have lots of issues in the country, no doubt about it.
02:17I mean, there are huge issues from poverty and infrastructure issues,
02:21and, you know, I mean, war and nuclear proliferation.
02:24All these things are there as well, no doubt.
02:25But we must not forget the simple things, the everyday things.
02:28And I think India needs about a two-year course in etiquette.
02:31And this is not about Amir Gari.
02:33This is about everybody.
02:34It's just, everybody seems to not understand the boss,
02:36he's our locality, let's keep it safe, let's keep it clean.
02:40And they don't follow anything.
02:41And I don't know, I've lost them.
02:42You know, I just, I cry at night thinking about this.
02:45For hours at a time.
02:47You know, people just leave me alone because I'm so upset.
02:50The biggest problem is that we used to do a show called MTV Bakra many years ago.
02:53And in Delhi, on the road to Bharinabad, we did these gags where we stopped people who urinate.
03:00And the boys there knew that this spot and that spot is the one which is frequently the most.
03:04So we stopped mostly two-wheelers.
03:05This is the December, the winter of Delhi, December jam.
03:09This is obviously very cold.
03:10And it became like a social experiment.
03:12Our idea was to make fun and, you know, catch people awkward moment.
03:15What are you doing?
03:16What are you doing?
03:29So I didn't have an answer to that because it was like, really, that's unfair.
03:33You know, it's cold.
03:34You're feeling like, you know, you need to release at that point at some point.
03:37But two-hour journey on a two-wheeler in the cold of the evening and not a spot to, not
03:41a proper infrastructure in place for a toilet.
03:43So we have a lot of these issues and I started realizing that this is an all-India issue.
03:48In Mumbai, I know by heart where the public toilets are.
03:52And in South Mumbai, I'm okay because I'm an old man now.
03:55So I need to pee all the time.
03:56It's part of what we do for a living.
03:58But as you go further, you start finding there are less and less toilets in certain parts.
04:03And I just, I can't understand why we build anything without thinking about the toilet.
04:07Whether it's a restaurant, whether it's, you know, a place to watch shows.
04:10Because everywhere the toilet has been given very poor treatment.
04:14I think the toilet is the ultimate minority of India.
04:16And that someone should finally stand up for the toilet.
04:19I'm glad Bilinda has done that.
04:20Because this is a very simple thing.
04:22You pay your taxes.
04:23Small basic things like roads should be okay.
04:25You shouldn't die in a manhole.
04:26And above all, if you need to pee, there should be something nearby.
04:29It doesn't have to be in the immediate dust-based meters.
04:31But it should be at least in the next five to ten minutes, you should be able to find your
04:34way to a toilet.
04:35Anywhere in the country.
04:37Well, you know, at one level, bang on, Cyrus, coining toilets as the ultimate minority.
04:43And you are, right?
04:44There are just not too many toilets.
04:46Or even adequate toilets.
04:48We have an acute lack of civic infrastructure in this country.
04:51But if you do, you know, let's flip it a bit, Cyrus.
04:54If you look at other countries, let's look at the UK.
04:56Let's look at America.
04:58Most toilets are paid facilities.
05:00So, even though it's not easy to access free public toilets, there is a sense that people are not going
05:05to start peeing in public.
05:07In India, that context is not there.
05:09Do you think it's a cultural context?
05:11Or is it just gender?
05:15Yes.
05:15Firstly, the mails are to blame more, obviously.
05:17No question about that.
05:18If you ever go into a free mail toilet, and I have done, which is against the law, it's always
05:22cleaner.
05:22There's no question whether it's in an airport, a train station, a local public toilet.
05:26But that's not the matter.
05:27I'm coming up to the social ramifications of this whole thing, which is basically, we are not taught, and again,
05:33it doesn't necessarily mean just poor people or unfunned people.
05:36It's across the board and across our different classes of society.
05:40We are not taught that it's important to not pee in public.
05:44If the role models are wrong from your grandfather over there, you first saw peeing.
05:48So, that's a big problem.
05:49So, if we go to London or Paris, we're shocked.
05:51I was shocked the first time when somebody said you have to pay money to pee.
05:55And I didn't have any coins on me because we were in a big group, and I wasn't carrying anything
05:59on me.
06:00So, I had to go back and get money to, you know.
06:02But I think we're not ready for that.
06:03Because first, you have to have the basic internal system working where you realize that you want to keep your
06:09city, and by that, I mean city becomes country, clean.
06:13And by that, you don't want to pee or defecate in public.
06:15It's just not a possibility, no matter how bad your kidneys are, or how old you are, or whatever leakage
06:20is happening.
06:21You just don't want to do that.
06:22So, that now goes back, like you said, directly to our sanskriti and parampara, which has to change slightly.
06:28Well, you do study the society quite closely, even if it's for comic relief.
06:32But Cyrus, how do you grow a civic conscience?
06:35Because then, it's not a class issue, it's not an education issue, or a literacy issue.
06:41You see Mercedes, and you see people throwing out trash from a car like that as well.
06:50That's because the law is taking its course there, and you're scared.
06:53You're scared you'll be caught, or whatever.
06:55So, that's the main, the stick is working there, not the carrot for us.
06:58But here, when Vinan says you have to shame them, and all that, I think he's completely right.
07:02But that's the later action to be taken, for the adult who's doing wrong.
07:06I want to go back to the beginning.
07:08It's just how we are unkind to animals, or do not have to, you know, have basic etiquette with other
07:12people.
07:12Open doors for ladies, their senior citizens' parks.
07:15All these basic stuff, as you start from childhood.
07:17I think schools, they all should know.
07:18Forget ABC, first teacher called this.
07:20Especially for the Indian male child.
07:22Say, son, you don't want to go to the toilet, you have to go to the toilet.
07:26And then explain what is the toilet.
07:27Of course, there has to be a toilet.
07:29That's another story altogether.
07:31Yeah, the cart-horses issue is going on there at the same time.
07:34But we've improved.
07:35There are some more toilets.
07:37There are definitely more toilets than I was in the 90s, when I was growing up.
07:40So, there's no improvement in that direction.
07:42So, let's not blame the government for everything.
07:44I think this is a whole Indian male phenomenon.
07:47We have to take toilet tuitions.
07:49And the toilet tuitions start at home.
07:51And in those first few years, the kid should feel a sense of pride in not wanting to dirty the
07:56locality.
07:56And this extends from not just the toilet, but also aboutтАж
07:59You know, our East Colony is lame.
08:01We should be trying to look after it.
08:02We should be stricken span.
08:03But we're still spitting.
08:05We're still peeing.
08:05We're still throwing things out.
08:07As you said, Mercedes cars don't make any difference.
08:09If I take a camera, I can shoot about 10 different people in 10 different classes of society,
08:14marowing the pavement and the roads.
08:16Because there's no love.
08:17We talk about Mother Earth and, you know, Maa, Gandhi and all that.
08:20But it's not reallyтАж
08:22It's just all move-only stuff where you talk about things and you don't do anything.
08:26So, I want to go back and the children have to be taught.
08:29I think teach them civic love first.
08:31Love for the area they live in.
08:33Why?
08:34I don't want to be communal.
08:35But in Gura, Parsi Bagh, it's always clean.
08:36Nobody's clean in public.
08:38If they can do it, a small minority, why can't the rest of India?
08:41Well, I love the word toiletutions.
08:44But if we wait for toiletutions, Cyrus, that's two generations.
08:48And, you know, that's a long wait for people to grow a civic conscience with toiletutions.
08:53In the meanwhile, do you think it's a hefty fine?
08:56Because usually it's money that could put the fear of God in the mind of Indians.
09:01Is it, you have to pay money, so best not to do it?
09:06I'm pro the Assam code and method.
09:09Simply because I feel that this entire...
09:12You know, the word shame or sharam is gone out of...
09:14It's extinct.
09:15It doesn't work anymore.
09:16So, we have to bring that back firstly.
09:18So, people feel a sense.
09:19Because they don't.
09:19I remember the answers I got when I was asking them.
09:22Why do you want to do it?
09:24The answer movie is like, where do you want to do it?
09:27You know, it's not into their head that it's wrong.
09:30That's the whole issue.
09:32And they only enter with some sense of sharam or shame.
09:35But, you know, Cyrus, I had a bunch of very accomplished women on my show.
09:39Yesterday, and they said this is a breach of privacy.
09:43This is not your partner's road.
09:45This is our road.
09:45This is India's road.
09:46Maharashtra's road.
09:47Delhi's road.
09:48These are...
09:49They can't pee there and get away with it.
09:51It's not wrong.
09:52No privacy here.
09:53I will shoot the offending member as well.
09:55Put it all up there.
09:56Let them feel a real sense of shame.
09:58Their families will be appalled.
09:59And then people understand that they don't want to do it.
10:01Please.
10:02Because the fact of the...
10:03It's like people coming up one way.
10:04If you ask them what are they doing, they tell you, why don't you also do it?
10:08You know, how do we get people to understand it's wrong?
10:11It's a fundamental issue is that.
10:12The second issue is that, of course, if nothing's working, you shame them and then put the pictures
10:16up, put videos up, make it the biggest selling thing on your networks.
10:21And hopefully, you know, the world will come across because you don't want to be the next
10:23guy.
10:24Your wife, your mother, your sister, your brothers, your people, you know, all of them will
10:28feel a sense of shame for you and by you.
10:30So, I'm not against it.
10:33I don't know if fines work.
10:34Fines, how much can we fine them?
10:36Are we really going to fine 10 grand when the guy is like completely miserable at the
10:39end of the day?
10:39No.
10:40For 500 bucks, I don't know, it's like 500 in Mumbai, I think.
10:44I know a few people keep the money with them and be in public.
10:47So, I think we have to go back to the, sadly, go back to the shaming situation.
10:52So, Milan is absolutely right.
10:54No, I tend to agree with you.
10:55Name and shame.
10:56If you can unzip yourself in public, even though it's in a corner, then you deserve to be outed.
11:00But, Cyrus, do you think we talk about these issues enough?
11:04Because it never really comes up.
11:06We need to be more fixated about these civic issues because this is a clear problem with
11:12us, a lack of civic sense.
11:16Absolutely.
11:17I'm fully on for this.
11:18You know, I think we don't take it seriously.
11:21You know, with some kinds of news, you blow up stories and you're not really relevant after
11:25some time.
11:25And this is relevant 24 hours a day, seven days a week, generation after generation.
11:29And we still made no headway.
11:31Like you said, the Lexus guy or the Mercedes guy is putting fun out of the...
11:34I mean, it's all...
11:35Every day you'll see it.
11:37I mean, there's no end to that.
11:38So, again, we have to go to the beginning and start.
11:40The Indian male is defective.
11:42Let's face that.
11:43We have to fix lots of things.
11:44Okay?
11:45We have to surgically do little things here and there to make him a better person.
11:48And it's going to take...
11:49It will take one or two generations.
11:51I can't see it happening.
11:52Like, I'm a horrible Indian male, but I'm still better than some of these other guys.
11:55You know, I mean, it's just...
11:57I feel...
11:57I apologize to the women of India.
11:59I don't know what else to say.
12:00I think they are a far better species than the men.
12:02There's no question in my mind.
12:03Well, you know, I think as representing the Indian women, thank you for saying it for what
12:08it is, Cyrus.
12:08And thank you for taking the time out this evening.
12:12My pleasure.
12:13Now I have to pee.
12:15All right.
12:16Okay.
12:17All right.
12:17Bye, Cyrus.
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