- 2 days ago
ITL opens the phone lines to debate whether Texans fans and the media are giving C.J. Stroud too much grace.
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00:00I'd like to go to the phone line where we got the homie Lamont calling in.
00:03Lamont, what you got, man?
00:04Hey, man, how's it going, fellas?
00:06Hey, man, going well, brother.
00:08Yeah, I got a couple of points, man.
00:09I won't hold you too long.
00:11I think it's time for us to take the key of gloves off of C.J. Stroud.
00:15You know, I'm a Christian, and I understand that that guy's a Christian.
00:19And it seems like all of the, you know, the Gauley references,
00:24and I don't have anything negative about that.
00:28I mean, I believe in Christ.
00:30I believe in all of that good stuff.
00:32But it seems like we got a soft spot for him.
00:35It seems like we got a soft spot for him.
00:38And Reggie, you watching the 25 year, the 25 season,
00:46once you get into that playoffs, and I'm just not talking about the game to be lost.
00:50I'm even talking about the game to be won against Pittsburgh.
00:54And you just see how that guy plays.
00:56Geez, I don't see why anyone has any hope inside of C.J. Stroud right now at all.
01:04And lastly, with this whole top 100 list, I do not think that C.J. Stroud is a top 100
01:11in the city of Houston right now in the Texas.
01:14And the Texans only have 53 spots.
01:16And that's all I have, fellas.
01:18Appreciate you, LeVon.
01:19He's not even top 100 in Houston.
01:22My man started with, I'm a Christian.
01:23And anyway, that man's not even top 100 on the team.
01:27I appreciate the call.
01:29I think, I hear you with the idea of the kid gloves, but the thing about it is, I mean,
01:34we've seen the capabilities.
01:35And maybe I'm just, maybe I am a prisoner of this line of thought.
01:39But when I see that you have produced this capability, now it's just about getting you back to it.
01:44And I said this talking on the Texas Collective podcast.
01:48The idea of, clearly, C.J. Stroud isn't what he has been at his height.
01:53That one is the thing that everybody can agree with.
01:55I think there's two schools of thoughts on how you get to him not being at the top of his
02:00capabilities.
02:01It's either you think that there's just a level of pressure that he cannot handle, which is something that we
02:05will have some level of answers to.
02:06Or you believe that there's kind of the circumstances that are around him that have put him in that place.
02:11And I don't think it has to be all or nothing, but you lean one way as a primary or
02:15a majority of what's happening or the other.
02:17And I lean towards circumstance.
02:19It is very clear that there's been a lot of circumstance around him that has failed him in his capability
02:25of finding levels.
02:25I do think that there is some level of, there's still a level of responsibility that he has to hold
02:31within this.
02:31But I think that circumstances level out, you see significantly better play for him.
02:35Because when circumstances were decent in year one, you saw the level of get of him.
02:41I'm hard-pressed to believe that this dude is just terrible.
02:44And that's not to say that there's not things that he needs to work on.
02:47Like, he needs to be more steeled to some of these circumstances.
02:51And definitely, you talk about those playoff games this past year, like, he went off the reservation.
02:56That's clear.
02:57But I just am hard-pressed to be like, what I saw was just some level of flash in the
03:02pan or some level of mirage that does not actually exist with CJ Stroud.
03:07Well, clearly it wasn't a mirage, and clearly circumstance matters.
03:11You just, you know, what you said.
03:13But part of, and we talked about this earlier, we did a whole segment, you know, can he handle the
03:18pressure that's been ratcheted up?
03:19Part of that, we talked about the pressure of all these videos resurfacing and, you know, not being on these
03:25lists or that list or whatever.
03:27We talked about all that.
03:29Another pressure that you have to handle is handling not being in your best environment.
03:35Like, there are quarter—CJ Stroud is not the first quarterback that had to play in a system that wasn't his
03:42favorite.
03:42He's not.
03:44I mean, dozens, if not hundreds of quarterbacks over the years, you know, have had to play in a system
03:49that wasn't his preferred system.
03:52He's got to handle that.
03:54But part of handling the pressure is like, hey, man, you're not pouting, not being, you know, like, well, this
04:00doesn't fit me, so I'm not going to play as well, whether it's deliberate or subconscious or whatever.
04:06So, you're right.
04:07It is circumstance.
04:08But it's also, dude, as Lamont said, take off the kid gloves.
04:14Grow up.
04:14Be a professional.
04:16This is the system you have.
04:17And I think that that's—
04:19This is it.
04:20Don't be wrong.
04:20When I'm talking about circumstance, what am I supposed to do with a line that's falling apart all the damn
04:24time?
04:25I understand that.
04:25But that's a different kind of pressure.
04:27That's the actual pressure.
04:28Yeah, but when I'm talking about the circumstance that you were given, like, because one of the things that we're
04:32trying to do is like, hey, man, CJ Stroud hasn't been good since that first year.
04:36I mean, the second year, we were kind of applauding, and we were talking about how everybody was failing him.
04:41And it feels like those failures have not been quite corrected, but now we're going, okay, well, now this is
04:45CJ Stroud's fault.
04:46Like, no, there's still a large factor of the ways in which he's been failed from this.
04:51And I think that that is—
04:52100%.
04:52That has not been corrected enough for me to go, yeah, no, this all now falls on his shoulders.
04:56Let me be very clear.
04:57I would love to see him in a different system that highlights and, you know, really gives him the opportunity
05:04to flourish with what he does best.
05:06I personally would love to see it because I've seen it before, and it's awesome.
05:09What I'm saying, you know, this is kind of like—Figgy, you've mentioned this in the past.
05:12Oh, the teacher doesn't like me.
05:14Screw that.
05:15Do your damn work.
05:17I don't care if the teacher likes you or not.
05:19That's kind of what's happening here, you know?
05:21So handle that pressure.
05:23Yeah.
05:23You know?
05:24And on top of it, it was a lot of stuff that probably didn't—maybe didn't have nothing to do with
05:28the system that, you know, his mistake.
05:30Y'all talk about the accuracy and, you know, all that type of stuff that he got to fix on
05:35his own, too.
05:35Mm-hmm.
05:36All right.
05:37Now it seems like the lines are going haywire.
05:41Al's on the phone.
05:41Al, what's happening, man?
05:43What's going on, guys?
05:44Appreciate the time.
05:45And I'll preface mine with saying I'm military, so—but I'm a Christian, too.
05:49Everybody let us know what your faith is when you call it.
05:52There we go.
05:52There we go.
05:53I love it.
05:53Faith, Al.
05:54But I love what you guys are doing.
05:56I wanted to give an opportunity to talk to somebody, and I'm thankful I can talk to my local.
06:01But I'm counting myself.
06:03I need people to kind of talk me out of this.
06:04But, I mean, for me, I'm pro-CJ.
06:06But I'm also listening to everybody get a little emotional, and I'm wondering, man, I've heard that with Justin Herbert.
06:11Almost like a unique Mendoza line for quarterbacks.
06:14And Justin Herbert and his expectations and what we did with him.
06:17And then I look at CJ, and I realize, man, we put a lot of stock and onus on him
06:22being successful his first year.
06:24You know, a lot of talking.
06:25He did all this.
06:26Obviously, he didn't live up to the expectation that we set, that we established for him, outside of what he
06:31accepted for himself.
06:32And so, when I look at it now, I'm like, this, to me, feels a natural progression, a natural part
06:37of a quarterback growing up and understanding who he is, what he can do, how he can do it.
06:41And like you guys were just saying, he's getting the necessary support around.
06:44So, I'm listening to everybody talk about the pressure, realizing that for him, he can't even think about what we're
06:48saying or what we're doing.
06:49He has to go out and execute.
06:50Because if he starts winning, this will all change.
06:53So, but I'm looking at the narrative, and I'm like, where does the narrative come from?
06:56And there's a lot of it built in from our expectations and the fact that we're projecting because he didn't
07:02live up to it at this point.
07:04Because if you can tell me what we're going to replace CJ with, and we're going to be okay with
07:09that.
07:09And we've just got to be realistic.
07:10I just want to be realistic about it because I don't make knee-jerk reactions.
07:14And I'm not saying we are, we're talking it through, but I just want to see what are we going
07:17to do in place of him that's going to be better than what he's shown the capability and potential are
07:21doing.
07:21And are we doing the things necessary for him to be the successful version?
07:25And I think that's what we're leading to, and I'm excited about this next year.
07:28Regardless of what I've seen, I know what he has the capability and potential are doing.
07:32So, I'm excited about what's happening.
07:34I just think that there's a unique line created by Justin Herbert that we're using to support our backs.
07:40And a part of it is based off of our expectations and him letting us down.
07:44So, that's where I'm coming from.
07:45For me, I'm fine.
07:46I'm patient.
07:47I want to see what he's got.
07:48Yeah, look, I think I hear what you're saying, you know, in terms of the expectation and the situation he
07:54is and where are we going to land with where he is right now.
07:58My answer to that is CJ Stroud has one year.
08:04There is no – I think all the indications are he's got one year to really show what he can
08:12do.
08:13And whether it's because of the outside influences or the system or whatever, this is, again, cliche time, this is
08:20the hand he's been dealt.
08:21So, you do have to make the most of it.
08:23You know what's funny, though?
08:24You know, because we've definitely talked about this amongst a number of people who are interested in CJ Stroud, like
08:30the experience, the story, whatever you want to say, that this is a big year for him.
08:35And it's like one of the most interesting ones.
08:38When you start talking about, like, who has pressure, at least in – we've talked about pressure in a number
08:43of different ways – at least in, like, kind of a narrative sense, I actually wonder if CJ Stroud's pressure
08:47is that high because it would be pressure if – depending on him being in Houston.
08:51I think CJ Stroud is a starting quarterback in 2027, regardless of that's here or somewhere else.
08:57And so, like, I think that there's actually a little bit less pressure than we care to give him.
09:01Like, I think their pressure actually does land pretty squarely with the Texans because this is a Super Bowl –
09:06clearly a Super Bowl window.
09:07And so, can you make this work with CJ Stroud here?
09:10I think CJ Stroud gets another starting job regardless.
09:12No, I think he does, but I disagree on the whole pressure that he's feeling thing simply because he's hearing
09:21it.
09:22He's feeling it.
09:22He's seeing it.
09:23He hears us.
09:25He sees these lists.
09:27He's seeing that video take – to make the rounds again.
09:30And he wouldn't be human if, you know, if he's like, all good, you know, all good, it's on them.
09:36It's on them.
09:37I'll start somewhere.
09:38No, he wants to start here, and he wants to win.
09:40And so, I think he's feeling it.
09:41All right.
09:42The phone continues to go up.
09:43Sure, why not?
09:44Well, let's just do this at this point.
09:45It's called an audible.
09:46All right.
09:47Indeed, indeed, which we didn't see enough of from the Texans last year.
09:51All right, KJ is on the phone line.
09:52KJ, what's happening, man?
09:53What's up, fellas?
09:55I'm always in contact with Figgy.
09:57Love the show, man.
09:58Man, John, I've been a fan since you was a writer.
10:01Reggie, you've been a perfect fit, dude.
10:03I don't get to call in and tell you guys this, but I literally listen every day.
10:08And shout out to all three of y'all, man.
10:10Y'all literally make my work there a little bit more enjoyable.
10:12Yeah, we appreciate it.
10:13That's what we do it for.
10:15That's it.
10:17CJ's issue is really between the ears.
10:19First and foremost, let's get this point established.
10:21I hear people talking about the line and all that.
10:24He's not the first quarterback to come to the NFL to play with a bad line.
10:26Peyton Manning had one for years, his early years in Indianapolis.
10:30Joe Burrow hasn't had a good line since he got in the league, a consistently good line.
10:35Yet these guys still put up numbers.
10:36I think, and we saw CJ rookie year with the average and best line still put up numbers.
10:43My thing with CJ, I'm going to give you a couple of receipts.
10:46It was like the second to the last game of the regular season last year.
10:49Well, the line actually blocked with CJ.
10:51It was a drop back.
10:52He did a five-step drop.
10:53CJ literally had all day to get rid of the ball.
10:56No one came.
10:57He had three options at that point.
11:00He could throw it out of bounds.
11:01He chose the latter, the third, which wasn't even an option on the list.
11:06He threw the ball to the feet of an offensive lineman who was with no receiver in sight.
11:11That was an intentional ground.
11:12It took us out of field goal range.
11:14Basically took points off the board.
11:15That is a mental mistake.
11:17CJ has run multiple times this past season.
11:21Run out of bounds behind a line of scrimmage.
11:23The play that we talk about, Niko not being available.
11:27I played tight end at Texas Southern.
11:29The reason Niko wasn't available, if you remember that Pittsburgh game when Niko ultimately got out, Niko actually went out
11:35earlier that game on what CJ threw a suicide ball.
11:39A scared pass.
11:40He was scared.
11:41He just got rid of the ball, put it in harm's way, hit it to the receiver, and got him
11:47knocked out.
11:47My point for saying all of this is, are there issues with the team?
11:51Absolutely.
11:52But there are fundamental mistakes that CJ's making that literally no quarterback would make under those circumstances.
11:59We saw the Ducks he threw up against New England.
12:01We saw the bad play against Pittsburgh.
12:04My last point, and I'm going to let you guys have it.
12:06This is a meme that is going to hunt CJ for a while.
12:11When he had that fumble against Pittsburgh, and he sat down there on the ground like a five-year-old
12:16kid with his lip poked out while his team was scrapping for them.
12:19Am I saying he should have gotten afraid?
12:20No, but just the image of your quarterback looking defeated like that, as a defensive player, because I played defensive
12:27end as well.
12:28We hunt for stuff like that, and if we see a weakness, we latch on to it.
12:32CJ's going to have to let him drop, man up, put some hair on his chest, and show that this
12:36was just an outlier, not the standard.
12:38Love the show, man.
12:39Appreciate you, K. Back where you talk about the demeanor.
12:42Yeah, man, I understand what you're saying there.
12:43I think also, though, that's all contextually based, man.
12:46Can you imagine if Tom Brady, and I know I'm doing the Tom Brady thing, can you imagine if Tom
12:49Brady wasn't nearly as good as he was?
12:51We talk about him as a petulant child over there throwing iPads on the sideline.
12:54These things are very contextually driven.
12:57I would like to say, when you start talking about circumstance and other people have been in those circumstances, you
13:02saw Peyton Manning.
13:03Peyton Manning having a bad line to start with.
13:06Peyton Manning, in his first three seasons, was sacked as many times as CJ was in his second season alone.
13:13When we talk about people have bad lines, did you have atrocious lines like CJ Stroud?
13:17Are we talking about, I think sometimes we forget the degree to which it has been bad, the circumstances around
13:22him here, and he's been asked to make up for these things, and the ways in which that cuts down
13:26a young quarterback.
13:27I mean, you can't compare him to Peyton Manning, but Peyton Manning also was smart enough to get rid of
13:30the ball.
13:31Do you know how many years it took into Peyton Manning's career?
13:35No, but just in terms of your sack thing, Peyton Manning would get rid of the ball, would live to
13:40play another down.
13:40Okay, fine.
13:41Do you know how many years it took for Peyton Manning to have an interception percentage that was as low
13:45as CJ Stroud's worst interperception percentage in his career?
13:48What's that?
13:49It was year, let me see, year six in the league where he finally had an interception percentage that was
13:55lower than CJ Stroud's highest interception percentage.
13:58Do you get what I'm saying?
13:59I think that sometimes we get to the place where we can kind of wash away the early portions of
14:04bad situations for quarterbacks, because they eventually figured it out.
14:09If CJ Stroud figures this out, really, if the Texans can figure this out around CJ Stroud, then this will
14:16all feel a lot more minuscule, but we're in the midst of it, and so it's catastrophic right now.
14:22But I think you have to remember the circumstances that are here.
14:24Like, we've lived in it so long.
14:26I don't know if you've ever, you know, I told you earlier, my grandma was a hoarder.
14:31When myself and my mom walked into her apartment, we were like, how do you live like this?
14:34But she was in it, like, it's the boiling pot for a frog kind of thing, where you slowly turn
14:40up the heat, and then you don't realize how hot it is.
14:42I think we've forgotten how bad it has been, some of the circumstances that he's been put around in this
14:46offense.
14:46No, I don't think anybody's forgotten.
14:48We constantly talk about it.
14:50You know, the offensive line, this, and, you know, everything about it.
14:54And we constantly talk about it.
14:55In fact, to the point that it's almost given him a little bit of a pass on some of these
15:01other things.
15:02Like, well, he's getting killed.
15:03Yes, he is.
15:04But there are certain things that ultimately fall on his shoulder.
15:07They are.
15:08But this is the thing, and I think this is the thing that Ron always harps on, and I agree
15:11with him in this regard.
15:12It feels like C.J. Stroud is the only one that everybody wants to hold to account for.
15:15No, no, I get that.
15:16I totally get that.
15:17But if we're talking about C.J. Stroud and pressure and handling it and the system, yes, there are some
15:23bad things.
15:24You know, if this is a decent enough offensive line and he does not show appreciable improvement, then we'll have
15:31the ultimate answer.
15:32And I think they will move on from him.
15:35And there's a possibility that ends up being a mistake that you rue.
15:38Of course.
15:39I think so, yeah.
15:40There is.
15:41I didn't expect that to be a phone line segment, but we appreciate you guys getting involved with the program.
15:45They brought it, too, man.
15:45Yeah, y'all did.
15:46Y'all did.
15:46Y'all did.
15:47Good callers.
15:47I got to remember to tap you guys in with the conversation more often.
15:51We appreciate you rocking with us here.
15:52And.
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