00:01We think that this is something that could be mandated by the federal government.
00:07It does enable, if your provider has an outage or is unavailable, that you would be able
00:13to camp on or use another network.
00:16This is used widely, as you said, across the world, in Canada, in New Zealand, in other
00:20countries.
00:21And the way those networks are configured to accommodate this kind of arrangement could
00:27potentially save a problem like we saw last week with the Telstra outage and could enable
00:33people that important access when they most need it.
00:37So, I mean, does this require more infrastructure here?
00:40Why don't we have it here?
00:42Well, we don't believe it requires more infrastructure.
00:44We believe that it is about ensuring that the telcos share the infrastructure that is already
00:49there.
00:50They tell us they've got full coverage of the country.
00:52Well, if there's full coverage, there's no reason why we can't access that coverage.
00:57Regardless of which provider we're paying for.
01:00And certainly your postcode shouldn't determine which network you are able to access.
01:05And in this day and age, we all rely on it for everything we do.
01:09It's a safety issue.
01:10We should be prioritising the public interest over commercial arrangements, which we have
01:15done to date.
01:17You've released a new report showing increased public support for domestic roaming when systems
01:22go down like this.
01:23And you've argued that it's time to take another look at it.
01:25What are you hearing from consumers?
01:28Well, 94% of consumers with a firm view said to us that they want to see domestic mobile
01:34roaming in place.
01:35So it has very strong public support.
01:38It certainly has support in other places where it's rolled out.
01:44And we know that competition hasn't really worked the way it was intended to when the ACCC signed
01:50off on not enabling this arrangement to be in place back in 2017.
01:56The reality is that we're not really seeing network investment that ensures the reliability
02:02of the system.
02:04And that prices are very high in Australia.
02:06The OECD has said that prices are comparatively high in Australia for mobile coverage.
02:12And, you know, that's not a sustainable situation, particularly as we go forward and there are
02:18new technologies coming into play.
02:20We need to be able to get coverage when we need it for safety and for everything else we
02:24do.
02:25So with what you're proposing, would that actually result in less of a cost for consumers, let
02:31alone not having outages like we saw?
02:33Well, it shouldn't mean an extra cost for consumers.
02:36We're already paying a premium to access a premium network.
02:39We expect a premium result, but we're not getting that.
02:43We're seeing more and more outages, less reliability of the system.
02:46We don't have mobile reliability standards in place like other essential services, and
02:51we should.
02:52We now need to make sure this system is reliable, resilient and available to all Australians
02:58when they need it, particularly when it comes to our safety.
03:02And this would add that extra layer.
03:05It would provide backup.
03:06We shouldn't have to have consumers having multiple phone networks or businesses having
03:11to maintain multiple networks when they're already paying a premium to access the network
03:17they are accessing.
03:18So this would enable the owners to be put back on the big telcos to ensure that we have that
03:25coverage available.
03:26And the federal government could do this now.
03:29Speaking of the big telcos, Telstra will appear before a Senate inquiry this week, and we
03:34heard from Federal Minister Jason Clare saying the company faces a potential $30 million fine
03:39over that outage.
03:40What are your thoughts on what we're likely to see there in that exchange?
03:44And also how much a fine like that would compare to perhaps earnings that a telco like
03:50Telstra could lose if we implement domestic roaming?
03:54Well, look, we saw Telstra make a $2.3 billion profit last financial year.
04:00They've recently made a $1.2 billion profit for the half year financial results.
04:06So I think it's quite, you know, a small cost in the overall scheme of things when they
04:12can't guarantee access to triple zero when Australians are most reliant on it.
04:18And it could actually lead to deaths.
04:20And we've seen this before.
04:21So, you know, $30 million, you know, it's certainly better than the previous fines were.
04:28We've had a recent uplift in that fine.
04:32But what we need to see here is, you know, this is an essential service.
04:38It should be treated that way in the legislation, in the regulation we have in place.
04:42And we need to ensure that we're not just reliant on fines and CEO scalps every time there's
04:49an outage, because we know there are many outages.
04:52We've recently seen the outage register research that the telcos are now required to publish,
04:57showing that there are a million and a half services affected by outages between April
05:01and June alone this year.
05:04So, you know, we've now got to look to shoring up the reliability, the resilience of the system.
05:11That means reliability standards.
05:13It means domestic mobile roaming.
05:16And ultimately and eventually we'll have satellite to digital technology, which will provide another
05:21safety net.
05:22But we need to get this in place now.
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