- 16 hours ago
In this episode of Democratic Newsroom, the focus is on the controversies surrounding the recent FIFA World Cup match between Argentina and Egypt and Donald Trump's intervention to review a red card decision against US striker Folarin Balogun.
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00:00Hello and welcome to yet another edition of the Democratic Newsroom.
00:04We meet today because it's often said that sports unites, but sometimes sports also divide.
00:11And we are here at the back of a very controversial match where Argentina won by the skin of its
00:18teeth when it came with Egypt.
00:20That particular match and the mysterious reversal of a red card where the United States of America is concerned.
00:29And prompts us to ask a question today.
00:31Global events like FIFA, can they be fixed or is it just a bunch of sore losers who are looking
00:36for conspiracy theories?
00:38Let's throw the floor open. Joining me is my colleague. He runs our entire sports coverage, Nikhil.
00:45I have young Harshit, he's one of our bright sports anchors.
00:48I have Cyrus who along with everything tech watches sports very keenly.
00:53And we have Rajdeep Sardasai who needs little introduction. Rajdeep, would you like to begin?
00:57Okay, I'll begin very, because you see, I love sport.
01:01And the joy of sport for me has always been rooting for the underdog.
01:07And I have absolutely no compunction in saying I was rooting for Egypt.
01:11As I was rooting the other day for Senegal, as I was rooting for Cape Verde in the match before
01:18that against Argentina.
01:19I was rooting for the underdog because the greatness of sport is when the underdog defeats the top dog.
01:25And the joy of seeing that happening in real time, 11 minutes to go, Egypt 2-0 up.
01:31You're cheering them all the way. And guess what? Argentina wins 3-2.
01:36Now, maybe the Arab world was feeling even more emotional about what was happening.
01:43But so were lots of us. And that emotion, I think, spilled over into what happened after the match.
01:48It's very possible to argue that the second goal that Egypt scored, which was disallowed, on another day could have
01:55been allowed.
01:55Someone has sent me videos of other matches where fouls have taken place a long distance away.
02:00And they've been given. So, it's a 50-50. It's subjective.
02:03I mean, VAR is also being run by a human being. It's being run by another referee.
02:08So, it's subjective. Again, you could argue that the Argentinian third goal could, on another day, have been disallowed.
02:16The penalty may not have been given.
02:18But all of that does not lead you to this conspiracy theory that the World Cup is being fixed.
02:23Sorry. I cannot... You will have to provide me much greater proof than subjective decisions taken by VAR or the
02:31referee to say that the cup is being fixed because everyone wants to see Messi or wants to see Argentina.
02:36That's where emotion is getting mixed with reality.
02:40I think, eventually, the story was Argentina 2-0 down, wins 3-2. And great teams do that.
02:45They come out, you know, even in a tough corner and win the game.
02:49So, I think we should now dial down a bit on conspiracy theories.
02:52I am appalled by what Donald Trump did.
02:56Let me make that...
02:57But has he done it?
02:57No, no. Of course, he admitted that he rang up the...
03:01He asked for a review, is what he said.
03:04Sorry. Who the hell is Donald Trump to ask for a review of a red card?
03:08Donald Trump says he got ceasefire between India and Pakistan.
03:10Did he?
03:12So, let's separate issues.
03:13Everything that Donald Trump says should be...
03:14Let him finish.
03:15No, so, I have absolutely...
03:16No, I allowed him to finish.
03:17So, I'm very clear.
03:19I don't see an Argentina conspiracy to win the cup.
03:22I don't see any kind of fixing being done.
03:25Usually, teams do tend to...
03:27Referees are a little bit more cautious when they are dealing with big teams.
03:30You've got Lionel Messi.
03:31Are you going to red card?
03:32The greatest player ever, perhaps, that the world has seen.
03:34You're a little more cautious.
03:36But it's subjective.
03:37Don't mix that with these conspiracy theories.
03:39But yes, Donald Trump should be called out.
03:42It is not the job of the President of the United States to be ringing up FIFA and asking for
03:47a review of red card.
03:48Which happened.
03:48And I think FIFA itself did not cover itself in glory by agreeing so quickly for a red card.
03:54It may not have been a red card.
03:55But the President should not intervene.
03:57Sorry.
03:57Alright.
03:57So, Rajdeep started off rooting for Egypt.
04:00When I was watching and I want to bring in Nikhil Nest, I was actually rooting for Argentina.
04:03Oh, come on.
04:04I was actually rooting for...
04:05Hear me out.
04:06I was rooting...
04:07Why?
04:07Because I was.
04:08I like Messi.
04:09I was rooting for Argentina.
04:10You like Messi?
04:10I like Messi.
04:11But within...
04:12Within the first 10 minutes, I was converted.
04:15Egypt was playing fabulously.
04:16And no, I am no football expert.
04:18But once the show ended, I felt...
04:20Oh, I thought you'd won the Ballon d'Or.
04:22No.
04:22I thought...
04:23You know, once the show ended, I thought that something right didn't happen today.
04:26I just felt that there were at least two instances where refereeing was concerned that changed the course of the
04:32match.
04:33That's what I thought.
04:33This is your emotion.
04:35This is a couch potato emotion.
04:36But you yourself said it.
04:37You yourself said it.
04:38Emotion.
04:38Emotion.
04:39But I thought so.
04:40Right, Rajdeep?
04:41That's what...
04:42You know...
04:43You said it could have happened 50%.
04:45It's a 50-50 call.
04:46Yeah, and which could have changed the course of the match.
04:48Certainly the second goal is a 50-50 call.
04:50Exactly.
04:51That's what I'm saying.
04:52So, I came from there and I believe not conspiracy theories, not...
04:55Oh, you know, one can celebrate Messi's greatness but also question the fairness of the referee.
05:01There's nothing wrong in doing so but...
05:03You're pointing to a conspiracy theory by saying that...
05:05No, it's not a conspiracy theory.
05:08I thought you were all of this conspiracy theory.
05:09Allow Nikhil to come in because Nikhil has a very strong point.
05:12I agree with a lot of things that Rajdeep has said.
05:14I disagree with what he says is subjective.
05:16I'll get to those found a little later and I'll follow the rule book.
05:19Okay, nothing, you know, how I saw it or anyone else saw it.
05:23I'll just tell you the rule book.
05:24But before that...
05:24But Nikhil, rules are not followed on paper.
05:26I'll get to that.
05:26Rules will be followed for one match and not followed for the other.
05:29I will get to that.
05:29I will answer...
05:29I'll give you three other goals.
05:30I will give you ten other examples.
05:32I'll get to all of that.
05:33But let me...
05:33My opening comment to that is...
05:35The issue for me is if we were going to debate whether the validity of a foul, if this debate
05:39was around that, I'd be happy.
05:41You know what has happened?
05:43You and I did a program yesterday.
05:44They put a reel out on India Today.
05:46Okay, it's done half a million views.
05:48It's got about 2,000 comments.
05:50All 2,000 comments that are abusing me for saying that it was okay for Argentina to win.
05:55Let's celebrate Argentina.
05:56And I'll tell you what the problem with that is.
05:58If you go through those 2,000 comments or some of those that I went with,
06:01most of the people that I click on the profile will have a Ronaldo picture or a Real Madrid picture
06:06or a Manchester United picture.
06:08So half of them have no skin in the game, but it becomes a Messi versus Ronaldo debate.
06:12Secondly, the half of the people that are abusing me are calling me either Zionist or says that he's a
06:17Mossad agent or he's from Israel.
06:19So therein comes in the religion debate.
06:21The problem is nobody is stuck to football.
06:23Let's talk about football.
06:24And that's the problem with football that nothing can be looked at in a very objective way.
06:29Like you may be looking at it.
06:30Like Rajdeep may be looking at it.
06:32Or like maybe Cyrus, Harshit and I will look at it.
06:34Like majority of the people, for them, it's either a religious fight or it's a fight between Messi versus Ronaldo.
06:40You remove that, take that out and then discuss the matter around.
06:44And then I think I can give enough examples as to where I thought this particular thing that Rajdeep points
06:48out to the two goals.
06:49And now you've got Kolina, the greatest.
06:51I know he represents FIFA, the greatest referee of the world.
06:54But he is.
06:54But you know what he can say?
06:56He can say yes.
06:56He is FIFA.
06:57As FIFA has said in the past, yes, there are issues with this.
07:00We will look into it.
07:00What he's come out and said is categorically denied.
07:04Saying there's no issue.
07:05And all I'm saying is just because it happened to one.
07:07But he will defend his referee.
07:08Will you sell out Rushit?
07:09I will give an example.
07:10You'll never sell out Rushit.
07:11I'll run you through both the instances.
07:13Now the thing is, see, it's not this or that.
07:14Because one team got a foul, others should get a foul.
07:16No, it shouldn't be like that.
07:18Every foul is different.
07:19But now you go to Thierry Andri.
07:22Thierry Andri accepts that there was a foul in Argentina.
07:24It's a valid foul.
07:26Okay.
07:26Alan Scherer says, foul is there, but how far back will you go?
07:31I'll just answer.
07:31But he also says if one's a foul, then the other one's a foul.
07:34No, that's what Thierry Andri says.
07:35But that's what I'm trying to say.
07:36No, that's what Alan Scherer says.
07:37Even Thierry Andri says.
07:39Thierry Andri says that if you had done VAR for that.
07:42You should have done VAR because it explains the frustration of the fans of Egypt.
07:46But on what occasion does he know that VAR has not happened?
07:48VAR only comes into play.
07:50VAR thinks it's a foul.
07:51It does a background check.
07:52Make your point.
07:53Okay, Hatshid, allow him to make his point.
07:54Make it finish and I'll come to you.
07:56That's a foul.
07:57I'm just saying the first bit is a foul.
07:58Now, how far back can you go?
07:59It's happened to Argentina.
08:01In this World Cup qualification, in a game versus Paraguay, Messi does a foul.
08:05Here, Egypt scores with four passes.
08:07After that, in that game, Argentina did 15 passes.
08:10After that, scored a goal.
08:12VAR went.
08:13VAR came down and said no.
08:14And that's a loss that Argentina suffered for Paraguay in a qualification.
08:18That's the same team.
08:18You can go so far back as to where the move started.
08:22It does not matter whether there are four passes, 10, 5.
08:24If possession had changed hands, if Argentina had possession, I agree.
08:28Yes, then it should have stopped.
08:29And it's just not the World Cup.
08:31English Premier League, Italy.
08:32He will remember.
08:33But there are enough examples of the other side.
08:35You go back into the English Premier League, there were so many fouls which were disallowed.
08:39Yes.
08:46I think I see where this is coming from and where, you know, how the fuel is getting added to
08:52the fire.
08:53And there's a reason why this debate has been so polarizing.
08:56For the simple reason, again, you've got very contrasting examples.
08:59Let's stick with this edition of the World Cup.
09:01There's a Ghana player who gets pulled down by the English defender, Konsa.
09:07This is the last group game for England.
09:09Now, we know how popular England is.
09:12We know how popular the English Premier League is.
09:15That is a mere murmur on social media concerning only a very small English fan base
09:20and people like you and I who consume English football.
09:23Having said that, was that the matter of subject today or was it the subject of debate yesterday?
09:29It wasn't because it's English football we're talking about.
09:32But you want English football to go forward?
09:35You want English football to go forward?
09:37But it was a debate.
09:38Everyone talked about it.
09:39Not today.
09:40But why?
09:41Then you will go back.
09:42I'll have to take you guys back to the Argentina game against Algeria.
09:46Again, a group stage game in which there's a Leo Messi involved.
09:49He's stopped.
09:50Exactly.
09:51There's a foot up challenge on the player and the player goes down.
09:55Messi isn't even cautioned.
09:56Correct.
09:56Now, what's adding fuel to the fire right now is that so many of these instances where
10:01you have had these critical decisions go in favor of teams and personalities that you
10:06want to go forward.
10:07You want in England to go forward.
10:08Messi's money.
10:09You want Messi.
10:10You want Argentina.
10:11And this is where the speculation arises from.
10:14No, that's why Argentina got two penalties against them in the last final.
10:17If you wanted Messi to win the World Cup, France shouldn't have gotten those penalties in
10:21the World Cup final.
10:22Argentina got the maximum number of penalties that any team has got in the last World Cup.
10:33So, I think why this debate has been so divisive is because, yes, I agree with Nikhil, this
10:40has not just become an Egypt versus Argentina debate.
10:42This has become a Messi versus a Ronaldo debate.
10:45But my sense is, it's also become the Arab world against the white order.
10:51It has become that as well.
10:53But to that, the thing is, again, the figures we're talking about are just so big that we're
10:59in the era of hate watching, right?
11:01You don't like the success of the other.
11:03And that's what it's come down to.
11:04People have reason to believe that an Argentina team, I'm not saying this conspiracy theory,
11:09Argentina haven't played a team ranked lower than 23 till now.
11:13I'm not saying this is by design.
11:14But you know, if Portugal had finished higher, they would have come here.
11:17That's not Argentina's fault.
11:18And this is where I don't submit to all these conspiracy theories.
11:21Again, Argentina doing their bit.
11:23They're doing their bit.
11:24So, Harshan very deftly has pulled out each and every conspiracy theories.
11:28And he says, but I don't subscribe to any one of them.
11:30But there they are.
11:31Because Argentina's doing their bit and the other teams aren't doing their bit.
11:34Okay.
11:35Go ahead.
11:35Much of it is being, where the conversation is around FIFA is corrupt.
11:38That FIFA is involved in this.
11:40Let me remind you that FIFA has been pulled up because of controversies in the past.
11:44They have influenced the game.
11:45They have influenced federations.
11:46And because of which we are supposed to think that FIFA is involved in this.
11:51Now, the referee, Francois, he was refereeing the 2024 Champions League final as well.
11:55He has the reputation of being a good referee.
11:57So, to pull him out and say that it was his call that he was being a bit biased towards
12:01Argentina,
12:02I don't know whether that's fair.
12:03In VAR.
12:04And the irony is it's a French referee.
12:06French referee.
12:07So, the conspiracy theory will say France would want Argentina out.
12:10Could be.
12:10Which is the new conspiracy theory that there are four Argentinian referees assigned for the French game.
12:15But the French coaches come out and said no issues.
12:18Make your point.
12:19That's the problem.
12:20There is so much ambiguity around.
12:22Technology has existed.
12:232016 was when VAR introduced.
12:25Until today, there has been no single match that has gone without controversy of VAR.
12:30And every, in fact, last season, Arsenal won the league.
12:33Seven decisions VAR were in favor of Arsenal and none against them.
12:37You had TGAOL issues.
12:39Okay, wait, wait.
12:40Now, I have less time.
12:41So, I want to bring in everybody.
12:42You had yourself.
12:43There is my gavel today.
12:45Rajdeep.
12:46Okay, have you made your point?
12:47So, I'm just saying, if you can't blame any of the single team just because star power is there.
12:51Nobody is blaming the team.
12:53I don't think you can't.
12:54Nobody is blaming Argentina.
12:55But also to FIFA, you know, Preeti, I'll tell you, it's a, sorry, it's a example that we see in
13:00cricket.
13:01Rajdeep will also say, we had a match fixing scenario in the 2000.
13:05After that, every match where a team collapses, Naysayas will say, this is fixed, this is a good team.
13:12India are the bullies.
13:14They have the maximum money.
13:15But Nikhil, let's also take, because we are the last five minutes in the show, let's also take a minute
13:19to reflect the sheer fact that now,
13:22whichever the host nation is, the Prime Minister or the President could easily influence FIFA like President Trump did, Rajdeep.
13:28You see, the problem, you see, the larger problem is FIFA's own reputation.
13:32There are huge question marks over, you know, when Qatar was handed over the World Cup, there were charges of
13:37corruption, of bribery.
13:39Yeah.
13:39And they've, you see, therefore, FIFA has not been very transparent.
13:43And then when you have, now going to the Donald Trump incident, when you've got the President of the United
13:47States intervening,
13:48frankly, I didn't think it was a red card.
13:50Let me be very fair to the Americans.
13:53Mollogan, yeah.
13:53Yeah, but any decision of that kind, the moment the Prime Minister rings up or the President rings up,
14:00you are bringing an unfortunate political tinge to it and seemingly suggesting that America will sort of influence the course
14:09of this World Cup.
14:10America may be a superpower outside.
14:12It's not on the sporting field.
14:14Let's be honest, they're not a football superpower.
14:17For the American President to ring up, justify it, I think that's where sport gets toxified by politics.
14:24And that's my big problem.
14:26Okay, Raj, give me enough now.
14:27So, you're absolutely, enough, okay, enough.
14:30Last one line.
14:31Okay, last, my only one line is, let sport be played on the field.
14:36Put in all your emotions as fans, as supporters, once the result is out.
14:41Okay.
14:41Unless you have 100% proof, stop these conspiracy theories.
14:45I will tell you a very short, 30-second short story, which is an amazing story about this Bollogan versus
14:51Trump issue.
14:52Bollogan, son of two Nigerian immigrants.
14:55His mom is seven months pregnant, wants to travel to UK to give birth to the child.
15:00But the American Airlines refused that.
15:02So, the child is born in New York, basis which he gets the American citizenship.
15:06Otherwise, he would have been a UK citizen.
15:08Guess who he plays for?
15:09US of A.
15:10Trump is right now fighting for that birthright citizenship.
15:13He wants that lot taken away.
15:15And he's fighting for a player who, by the dint of his birth, was playing for US and he's standing
15:20up for it.
15:20That's quite interesting.
15:21Okay, I need to close the show, but I'm going to ask all of you.
15:23Well, you know, at one point in time, I was supporting Argentina.
15:25That's a very short show you're having today.
15:26That's what it is.
15:27That's the time we have, Rajdeep, sir.
15:28I see.
15:29Yeah.
15:29Okay, so I'm no longer supporting Argentina.
15:32I think my two teams now are France.
15:34Number one, I want France to win the World Cup.
15:42You know, if France wins, I think it's a victory for Africa.
15:46I even want England, actually.
15:48I even want, yeah, that's true.
15:49I even want England.
15:50I want either, my first choice is Morocco.
15:53Morocco.
15:53Because I believe the time for Africa has come.
15:55So is France.
16:00You know, the fact is Morocco has never won, Africa has never won.
16:03Football is growing rapidly there.
16:05England hasn't won in 27 years.
16:07No, in 50 years.
16:08England has not won in 60 years, since 1966.
16:10But forget that.
16:11So, I want Morocco number one.
16:13But just for what the fans have done to the game, I won't mind Norway.
16:17Norway.
16:19And I'm loving those Holland videos.
16:21I don't know.
16:21Every time I see the Holland videos, I see Holland videos.
16:26Every time I see Holland videos with his dad, I get a warm feeling and I love it.
16:30Conventional, nothing controversial, Spain.
16:33You want Spain.
16:33Oh, come on.
16:34So, you want Norway, you want Spain.
16:36I want a new winner.
16:37Actually, I want England.
16:38And then France.
16:39I want Mr. Trump to have to give the trophy to Hakimi.
16:44You have given yours?
16:45Yes, I did.
16:46I said anyone.
16:46Anyone is not given one.
16:48Spain, Morocco.
16:48You want Argentina.
16:49Nikhil is an Argentina fan.
16:51No, I'm a fan of football.
16:52Okay.
16:53Okay, we leave it at that.
16:54We're all fans of football.
16:55We're going to leave it at that.
16:57But thank you, all of you for joining us.
16:59I hope, did you guys pick a side?
17:01We don't quite know.
17:02But thank you for watching.
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