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00:00I love where Nick Wilson's head is at.
00:02We're getting ready for the All-Star break here.
00:04It was a terrible second inning last night.
00:07Felt bad for Joey Cantillo, I told you.
00:08He battles.
00:09Some people say that's a bad thing.
00:11Listen, if you're not an ace and you're never going to be a number,
00:13like, he's never going to be an opening day starter,
00:15for a contending team anyway.
00:17He's never going to be an opening day starter.
00:19He's kind of, to me, he's third man in the rotation.
00:23That's kind of where his ceiling is.
00:27When you battle, that's not a bad thing.
00:29Battling is not a bad thing.
00:31Getting through innings, keeping your bullpen at bay as best you can,
00:36for the most part, Joey Cantillo does a great job of doing that.
00:39Got a lot of respect for Joey Cantillo.
00:41So battling, I don't know where people thought that was like a game manager
00:45type of backhanded compliment or something like that.
00:48That's not a bad thing in my world when it comes to a pitcher,
00:50especially when we're kind of trying to restock it
00:52and trying to find a new ace.
00:53Because Gavin Williams is a guy we kind of want to put there.
00:56I don't know if he's ready to be there yet for a lot of us.
00:59Tanner Bybee, I know that he was the opening day starter.
01:01I don't think a lot of people feel that way.
01:03It's not just the win-loss record.
01:04I think that Parker Messick is on his way.
01:07But it still might be a little premature to call him your ace
01:10because he's so young.
01:12So that being pointed out, we're getting ready for an all-star break here.
01:16We're fighting for a division.
01:18I love where Nick's head is at.
01:19I just don't agree with him when he says this about a possible trade target
01:25for your Cleveland Guardians.
01:26Even the fact he's owed $30 million a year through the rest of this decade,
01:30I'm like trying to figure out where they could move Frankie.
01:33When you've got five more years, it's going to have to be to a team
01:35where you eat a lot of the money to begin with.
01:37If the Guardians were one of the teams that got in on this,
01:40there'd be a part of me that would embrace the idea that Frankie comes back.
01:43I could come around to the idea.
01:45But face value, no, I'm not interested.
01:47You're not interested in Lindor?
01:48No.
01:48Oh, bring him here.
01:49I can't sign up quick enough.
01:50I'm stuttering because I'm shocked by that answer.
01:52He's hitting 216.
01:53It's Lindor.
01:54Making $30 million a year.
01:55He's a great all-around player.
01:57Hold on.
01:58Are we paying him $34 million a year?
01:59Are we talking about them eating 50% to 60% of the money?
02:01I mean, even if he's at $14 million a year,
02:04that might as well be $30 million to the Guardians.
02:06What he does defensively alone, even if he never hits again,
02:09which he will, he'll hit again.
02:10He always goes through these different little stretches.
02:13Defensively alone, he brings that value to the table.
02:16All right, that's afternoon drive.
02:18I got that wrong.
02:20That's on me because I believe Nick had said this like a month ago
02:26and buttressed up against it that he would be willing to bring him in.
02:30That was Jonathan saying that he wanted to bring him in.
02:32That's my fault.
02:33I eat that.
02:34I'm sorry.
02:35I apologize.
02:36Love where their heads are at.
02:38Disagree with Jonathan.
02:39Disagree with Jonathan on bringing in Francisco Lindor.
02:43Anthony, would you want to bring in Francisco?
02:45I got plenty of reasons why, and none of them really have to do with money.
02:48Well, the first thing is, no, to me, money is the biggest part of this
02:51because, I mean, the guy was, was he second in MVP voting two years ago
02:56in the National League?
02:57So you're not going to get players good or who has the ceiling that Lindor does,
03:02even at his age, not that he's that old.
03:04I mean, he's still somebody, he's been kind of an up-and-down player,
03:08but he still has a higher ceiling than anybody else you would employ.
03:11There's so many things that I think about that aren't even money to begin with.
03:16Because if you were to make this investment in trying to trade for Francisco Lindor,
03:21you're telling me that money is not the same option that it used to be,
03:25or the same object that it used to be.
03:27So I think that that would be more of a David Blitzer move,
03:30not a Larry Dolan, not a Paul Dolan move.
03:34I think that that's what that would be.
03:35So if it's still Paul Dolan, yeah, the money ain't ever going to make sense.
03:39There's no point of having the conversation.
03:40But the point of that conversation that they're having is,
03:43as I got to look at the Mets, the Mets have been an absolute dumpster fire.
03:46And you got fans chanting for Pete Alonso.
03:49They're upset that, you know, Nimmo,
03:51they're upset with a lot of guys that were supposed to be clubhouse guys.
03:56Like, they might be better at certain things than Austin Hedges and things like that,
04:00but their clubhouse guys are gone, and they're an absolute mess.
04:04And they don't look like they like each other.
04:05They don't look like they like going to work every day.
04:08They fired their manager.
04:09That's a team that's dead in the water.
04:10So you don't think change of scenery would help?
04:12But I don't think, well, this is what I'm saying.
04:14If I were in charge of the Mets and trying to clean up this mess,
04:18Francisco Lindor's not the guy I'm moving.
04:20He's not.
04:21If I can find a way to get out from some of the other contracts,
04:25like Juan Soto doesn't seem to want to be a part of the team,
04:28doesn't seem to be happy there.
04:29If I can find a taker for him, maybe I would do that.
04:32Maybe I would go in some of the other places.
04:34Yeah, but what about from the Guardian's point of view?
04:35From the Guardian's point of view of how?
04:38The question is, would you take Lindor?
04:40It sounded like you wouldn't.
04:41I wouldn't.
04:42I would not.
04:43And this is part of it.
04:46Is, one, is he that good to bring back?
04:49He has been that good.
04:51Is he that good consistently to bring back?
04:53Is he good enough to give up a lot of young prospects that we're interested in?
04:57I'm not sure if he is.
04:58But that doesn't mean that he isn't, all right?
05:01Second thing is, and this is one of the bigger things that I think of,
05:04this is unequivocally Jose's team.
05:06And it's been a damn good culture with Jose's team.
05:09Francisco Lindor, I don't think is a bad guy.
05:11I don't.
05:12I think that sometimes he plays brain dead while he's out there,
05:15and that usually rears its head in April at the beginning of the season,
05:19and then he kind of settles into the year, and off he goes.
05:23But I wonder about the power dynamic a little bit.
05:27A little bit.
05:28Because, you know, Francisco Lindor was the star when he came in.
05:32Jose was the guy who all the prospectus people didn't have great things to say,
05:39just thought he'd be a middler, thought he'd be up here for a cup of coffee.
05:42And now he's become one of the all-time legends in Cleveland,
05:45one of the icons in all of Cleveland sports.
05:48He's a future Hall of Famer.
05:49You can't stop saying great things about Jose Ramirez,
05:52and there's obviously all the good reasons why.
05:55And I don't know if I want to invite that back.
05:59Because if you're Francisco Lindor, you're looking for a fresh start.
06:03I don't know if you want to go back to a place where somebody else
06:07clearly runs the organization as a ball player,
06:11clearly has the hearts and minds of the fan base,
06:14and then go back to that and go,
06:15hey, messed up, was over in New York, here I am again, let's get this going again.
06:18Like, I know he's a fine ball player.
06:20He is.
06:20And I know that his batting average ain't that good.
06:22Nick brought that up.
06:23I know that that's not fair.
06:24He's been better in the postseason than Jose, though, too.
06:26Has he had more chances?
06:28And has he had more protection around him in the postseason?
06:31They didn't go to the postseason last year.
06:32They went to the postseason two years ago.
06:34You have more protection in that lineup when you're spending that amount of money
06:38compared to what Jose Ramirez is dealing with in his lineup,
06:40whether it's you and a bunch of kids.
06:42Or, excuse me, young men.
06:44Very young men.
06:45So, I don't think – I love where Jonathan's head is at, I should say.
06:51I like that the discussion is going on.
06:53We should have this discussion.
06:54It's intriguing.
06:55I just don't think I'd bring him back.
06:58If there were even a possibility.
06:59I just think he has so much – the higher ceiling thing, I can't get out of my head.
07:04Now, obviously, you know, the price is everything.
07:07Like, obviously, we're not going to pay him $30 million a year, you know,
07:12for the rest of this contract.
07:13So, how much truly is it that the Mets are willing to absorb in that contract?
07:20That's going to be the huge story.
07:21Well, that's kind of where the conversation dies.
07:23Like, we can have the conversation, but in reality, I'm not paying the freight
07:29if I'm the Mets to get rid of Francisco Lindor
07:32because we know people who cover the Mets.
07:35We know people who are, like, in with the Mets, actually,
07:38and they're like, he ain't the problem.
07:39He's not the problem with that.
07:41Now, there might be other extenuating circumstances
07:44that I really am kind of uncomfortable getting into
07:46that really don't involve him.
07:48That might be the problem, but he's not part of their problem.
07:50So, if I'm restarting the Mets, if I'm one of those guys,
07:53I'm restarting with Francisco Lindor.
07:55The funny thing is, even if he were part of the problem there,
07:58I would bank on what we've got going on here,
08:03and that's not necessarily in, like, hitting development
08:06or anything like that.
08:07Like, I think there have been a lot of questions over the years
08:11with, you know, what we haven't been able to do
08:14with guys that are in slumps or whatever.
08:16I'm just talking about the overall essence of who the Guardians are
08:22and what is acceptable here, what is expected here,
08:27and really how there's been kind of a seamless transition
08:32from Tito to vote.
08:34Yes.
08:35I think that could benefit somebody like Francisco big time here.
08:39I think it could, but had he not had the history he had here yet,
08:42like, he kind of left and people got, we got pretty bitter about it.
08:45Like, how he wanted to be called Francisco instead of Frankie,
08:48the whole thing, we got upset about the falling asleep during the rain delay.
08:52I mean, he was a kid here.
08:53He's no longer a kid.
08:54Well, he was a young man here.
08:55I understand that, and things can change.
08:56And I've gotten over the anger and frustration of that.
08:59I don't want to talk trash about a guy on his way out the door.
09:02I just think that this probably wouldn't be the best place for him
09:05if they were thinking about moving Francisco Lindor.
09:07It kind of is a movable contract.
09:09We'll see how things go here over the next six months,
09:13seeing how the CBA could possibly go.
09:16It might be a decent enough contract for them to be able to move,
09:19but I just don't think that we're the destination for him.
09:22But when it comes to Lindor, you would trade for Francisco Lindor
09:25because Nick and Jonathan had the conversation,
09:28and Nick said he wouldn't.
09:30Jonathan said he would.
09:33It is a conversation to have.
09:35He has a history here.
09:36I just don't think that this would be the best place to try to revitalize yourself.
09:41Not that he's doing terribly,
09:43but I don't think that this is the place that you revitalize yourself
09:46or find a fresh start is back in a place you were already at.
09:49I know that Manny, when he was in Boston, said so many times,
09:54he would get mad and say,
09:55I wish he didn't sign this contract,
09:57wish he would have stayed in Cleveland,
09:58wish they would have had the money to sign me,
10:00all that other stuff.
10:01But Manny ain't Francisco.
10:03It is a different player, different generation, the whole thing.
10:08Money, yeah, it's a non-starter.
10:09We know it's a non-starter.
10:10But when it comes to theory,
10:12when it comes to where your baseball team is,
10:15your middle infield,
10:16middle infield seems kind of set.
10:18Rocchio's turned himself into a ball player.
10:21It seems that, no, I don't think that it's the prudent move.
10:25What do you mean by set?
10:26Because, like, there's no comparison between Rocchio and Francisco Lindor.
10:33There isn't, but there's also no comparison between the money
10:35I'm going to pay either one of those players.
10:37So am I willing to?
10:38So money does matter.
10:39And my first reactions are not monetarily.
10:42That's what I say.
10:43But when we get down to the money,
10:44it's like Brian Rocchio ain't going to get $30 million a year,
10:47$30-plus million a year over the next decade, for crying out loud.
10:50But Brian Rocchio's turned himself into a fine ball player.
10:52And if I have Travis Bazzana and I have Jose Ramirez,
10:55and I do have some young guys coming up,
10:58I might be able to do this.
10:59Now, I don't want to overthink it
11:01and say that Francisco Lindor isn't better than Brian Rocchio.
11:03But when it comes to the price and value of what you're getting,
11:06I don't know if you want to make that investment in Francisco Lindor.
11:09Owen definitely has something to say.
11:11Well, hold on.
11:12What were you going to say back to that?
11:13Or do you want me to get to Owen?
11:14No, go ahead.
11:15All right, Owen, go ahead.
11:15I just wonder if, can you not put Rocchio in the outfield?
11:19I mean, we have a rookie catcher in right field.
11:22I understand that, but that's like a place-holding thing.
11:25And I don't want to, like, turn Rocchio into place.
11:28There is something to be said.
11:29But Lindor's a big-time player.
11:33He's fabulous.
11:33In a world in which the Guardians have not been able to acquire big-time players.
11:38I understand.
11:39And if you can get him where the Mets are also footing a lot of that bill.
11:43All very true.
11:45But I also am in a place right now with Rocchio,
11:48and maybe it's just my own fear,
11:50and probably this is an argument against me.
11:52Lindor's a lead-off hitter, and Rocchio's the nine-hitter.
11:55And any time you try to move Rocchio out of nine, he revolts.
12:01Well, he got a couple of hits up there, up higher in the lineup, a little bit.
12:08He's comfortable in his places.
12:10And he's comfortable at short.
12:12He's comfortable middle infield.
12:14And I'm sure he could.
12:16He would play outfield.
12:17He'd be bullpen catcher if you asked him to do that.
12:20That's not part of the question.
12:23It's just, am I getting him at his very best?
12:26And I don't believe that that's him at his very best.
12:31Don't you think a three-quarters Rocchio and Lindor is better than a full Rocchio?
12:37If we're worried about Rocchio's very best, don't you think adding Lindor is a better option?
12:44This is like when people talk about, I don't want LeBron because he's 41 now.
12:49Well, he's still a top 15, 20 player in the NBA.
12:52But can I just keep Rocchio at shortstop, put Travis Bazzana there at second like always,
12:57put Kyle Manzardo over at first, deal with whatever defense.
13:00I think he's gotten better at defense.
13:01I feel worse about this season's team right now than I felt about them last year.
13:05And this time last year, they were seven games under .500.
13:08Oh, that's a whole different topic.
13:12I think there needs to be some sort of, if you have the ability to add to your lineup right
13:19now,
13:19I think you need to take advantage of that.
13:22And it's Francisco Lindor.
13:24It's not a guy coming up from Columbus.
13:27But wouldn't we just have...
13:29Or as they say, you're getting Jose back in a month or whatever it is.
13:34And go, that's just like adding a free agent or trading at the deadline.
13:38I hate that point too.
13:40And that's definitely what they're going to say.
13:41I understand that.
13:42But when you have Jose...
13:44And then remember, you have Anja Martinez out there to play outfield for you.
13:48So I think I'd rather make that investment.
13:51And then instead of being...
13:54I don't know exactly what the Mets would pay up front.
13:56I don't know that I can trust everybody to still be healthy by the end of the year.
13:59No, but if Francisco goes through one of his swoons, which he's tending to do,
14:03usually it's at the beginning of the season,
14:05and Rocchio just turns into Rocchio again,
14:07the guy that people were making fun of on the internet,
14:10myself included, two years ago,
14:11then we got ourselves a real problem here.
14:13He brings up a good point too.
14:15Why not put Bazana in the outfield and put Rocchio back at second?
14:18Well, wait a minute.
14:18I got my number one overall pick.
14:20I'm just going to start moving him all over the place.
14:21I don't want to do that.
14:23I wanted to make...
14:24He was the future second baseman.
14:25I'm going to put...
14:26I disagree with Keith.
14:27He's the future second baseman.
14:28He stays at second.
14:29That's where I'm keeping Travis Bazana.
14:31I'm not just moving him all over the place for Francisco Lindor.
14:33I would move anybody anywhere to get a legitimate bat in this lineup
14:37and somebody who I trust in big...
14:40I do.
14:40I trust Lindor in big moments.
14:42Even now, I'm not going to act like I'm dialed into the Mets games,
14:45and he's been injured this year.
14:46But, you know, when you're just two years removed from somebody being,
14:50you know, second in MVP voting...
14:52As much as being a big Guardians slash Indians fan
14:56and wanting Francisco to flame out when he went to New York,
15:01I wanted that.
15:02It hasn't happened.
15:03They're not having...
15:04He's not being moved or being talked about being moved
15:07because he flamed out.
15:08It's because they paid Soto too much money,
15:10and they have to live with that.
15:11And I don't care about them.
15:13I don't care about them having to live with poor decisions.
15:15If we can have a chance to get him back,
15:17I'd like to try to get him back.
15:18Let me get to Brendan in Cleveland.
15:20Brendan, you're first up on the fan.
15:22Hello!
15:23Good morning, guys.
15:24Hi, Brendan.
15:26Just want to let you guys know,
15:27you two are the best to do it in Cleveland Sports Radio.
15:30I've followed you guys since you guys were doing the night shows
15:33and then moved to the mornings.
15:35We do appreciate that, Brendan.
15:37Thank you very much.
15:39So, you guys made a point, Ken.
15:41I want to hit on some points you made really quick.
15:43So, talking about Lindor coming back,
15:46you even mentioned Manny Ramirez.
15:48He took the Boston contract,
15:49said he wished he would have stayed in Cleveland
15:51if they could have offered the money.
15:53But look at Jose, who stayed and took the pay cut.
15:57Do you think that they,
15:58if they're thinking about bringing Lindor back,
16:00that they should run it by Jose?
16:02Absolutely.
16:05Because Jose's thing and taking a pay cut,
16:07Jose could have left and took big money somewhere else
16:11and then said, well, if they're going to do this with Lindor,
16:13I could have done the same thing.
16:14I think that you would always run it by Jose.
16:18I think they run a lot of things by Jose anyway.
16:22At least with...
16:23I think short of Aaron Judge, you'd run everything.
16:25Yeah.
16:25Or Shohei, you'd run it by Jose.
16:27Brendan, I think that's a great point.
16:29Because this is a team,
16:30and thank you so much for the call.
16:32And I'm not just agreeing with you
16:33because of the kind words that you said.
16:34This is clearly a team,
16:36like you see other teams in baseball
16:39where the culture is terrible,
16:41the culture is bad,
16:43guys don't want to show up to work every day,
16:45and they're going through the motions
16:46and they're just punching the clock
16:47and then they're headed home
16:47as soon as they can to get away from each other.
16:49The Mets are one of those teams, all right?
16:52The Cleveland is not.
16:53Cleveland has won games
16:54and kept themselves in the division
16:56for a multitude of reasons.
16:58One is it's not a great division, okay?
17:00Two is that they are a talented baseball team.
17:03Three is that, yeah, they have a good culture.
17:06A big reason is that they have a good culture.
17:08You would run that past Jose.
17:09If Jose said no,
17:10you'd have to take Jose's word for it
17:12and say we're not going to be involved in this.
17:14I can't fathom a world where Jose would be like,
17:15no, I don't want a player who could help,
17:18who could help, you know,
17:20add support in a lineup that desperately needs it.
17:22That's one of the worst in the big leagues.
17:24That's true.
17:25That is absolutely true,
17:26but I don't think he's saying,
17:28Brendan is not saying that Jose Ramirez
17:30would be like, absolutely not.
17:31He's asking the question.
17:33Honestly, I'd have to question,
17:34and I've never questioned this ever,
17:35so that's why I think it's ridiculous.
17:37I don't think it would happen.
17:38But if Jose is out there saying,
17:39I don't want this guy,
17:40I don't want this guy,
17:41then I have to question
17:41how much he really cares to win.
17:43I have to ask you why he has those feelings,
17:45and then I'd have to take those into account
17:47because I don't think that Jose Ramirez
17:48is going to find any willy-nilly reason
17:50and not bring some guy in.
17:52I think that everybody knows him
17:53as one of the smartest baseball people in the game.
17:56I don't think if he had a reason
17:58to get rid of a guy or not bring a guy in.
18:00You're leading people on an assumption
18:02that Jose wouldn't want Francis.
18:04Right, which I can't have.
18:04I can't fathom a world where that would be the case.
18:07No, that's not what I'm doing at all.
18:10If I was doing that, I would do it.
18:12Well, then clarify that right now.
18:12I thought I was very clear.
18:14Let me clarify.
18:15The guy asked,
18:16Brendan asked whether or not
18:17he should ask Jose Ramirez
18:19whether or not Francisco Lindor
18:22could be traded for.
18:23That's the end-all, be-all.
18:24If Jose Ramirez had a problem with it,
18:27then I wouldn't make the deal.
18:28That's all I said.
18:29I wasn't leading anybody,
18:30and I don't think anybody thought
18:31I was leading anybody
18:32to think that Jose Ramirez
18:34doesn't like Francisco Lindor
18:35or wouldn't accept the trade.
18:36I don't know what Jose Ramirez would say.
18:39I'd be very interested to hear
18:40what he would say
18:41because if it were anything negative,
18:42well, then obviously
18:43we got ourselves a hell of a story here,
18:45and maybe we're getting away
18:46from a landmine that's out there.
18:48But if he wanted to bring him in,
18:50yeah, obviously I'd consider it
18:52depending on what the money would be,
18:53how much the Mets would take.
18:54If I could afford $30 million a year,
18:57which it ain't my money,
18:58so I don't care,
18:58then yeah, fine.
18:59Bring him in if you want to.
19:01But I don't think that this...
19:02Take that Stephen Kwan money
19:03and give it to him.
19:05You're just bringing up old stuff
19:06all the time, aren't you?
19:07He likes doing that.
19:07He does like rubbing that.
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