- 11 minutes ago
An interim investigation report reveals alleged misappropriation and theft of funds during the donation process at the Ram Temple in Ayodhya.
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00:00Let's raise some of the big questions tonight.
00:02Should the Ayodhya Trust be completely disbanded and a new one appointed?
00:07Are Mandir Trust members divided amongst themselves?
00:11Has there been a total supervisory failure in Ayodhya?
00:16And where does the buck stop?
00:18Joining me now, our special guest Mahant Rajaram Chandra Acharya Sarpanch of the Shri Panch.
00:27Ramanandi Nirmohi Akhada is joining me.
00:30So he comes from the Nirmohi Akhada and he is 102 years old.
00:34I want to tell you he has fought the title case since 1949.
00:38Karthik Chopra Mukhtar and national spokesperson of the Nirmohi Akhada in Ayodhya is joining me.
00:46And I am also joined by Shri Raj Nair, BHP spokesperson.
00:51I appreciate all of you joining us here on the show.
00:54First of all, I want to come to my guest who is 102 years old.
01:03Chandra Acharya Ji, Mahant Rajaram Chandra Acharya Ji,
01:06tell us that who the SIT is doing its investigation,
01:13he is saying that we will not be forgiven.
01:19BHP also says that we will not be forgiven.
01:21Do you believe that the investigation is going in the right direction?
01:30It is going to be on the top of the temple, Kandr, which is the invasion of Kandr, but this
01:42is the 182nd place of Ramajan.
01:50I am giving you that.
01:53Where are you going?
01:56so you are saying that you are saying that this is not the first time because
02:00one minute sir, I remember that Nirmoui Akhara has VHP to 1400 crores
02:08of the money in 2017 and you are saying that you are saying that this is not the first time
02:16that this is not the first time.
02:18I mean we are fighting with Ramjanma Bhumi, Nirmoui Akhara is fighting from 1885.
02:28Yes.
02:30VHP and BJP are all the people who have fought in Congress before Nirmoui Akhara is fighting
02:371885, 1886.
02:40Yes.
02:41So no problem is not our position in becoming an act.
02:44They are fighting for the rights of their own hands, they are pushing us to protest here.
02:50So for now , what should she add to the movement of the individuals with the people who have
02:58alreadyots of the people with the people who have already studied in the head of the people
03:01So you are saying that this all is of the people in the beginning of the people of the people
03:03of the people.
03:04Then we think that you are saying that this all is being done.
03:05Yes.
03:13you are national spokesperson of the nirmohi akhada now i'm hearing what uh the acharya is saying but
03:23the truth of the matter is that there has been a long-running battle between the nirmohi akhada
03:28and the vishwa hindu parishad over the ram mandir who should take credit now because of what has
03:34happened the vhp is saying you can't hold us responsible actually we
03:39no no i would like to just come in over here this battle for ram janabhumi has been one of
03:46continuous
03:46possession change ever since 1528 1528 in 1528
03:54right english please sir defend karte in english please sir
04:01after that after that regularly the nirmohi akhada used to always take possession back and hold on
04:07to it in 1858 after the first war of independence after wajid ali shah is disposed and british rule
04:12comes in the britishers then put a brick wall between the inside the inner courtyard separating
04:18the inner courtyard in two parts please understand there is an inner courtyard and an outer courtyard
04:24and inside the inner courtyard there is the ram chamutra the nirmohi akhada has always believed that
04:29the entire site is the birthplace of vagwan shri ram lalla virajman during the high court hearings justice
04:35sudir garwal asked our lawyer ranjit dar varma ji ke mr varma please tell me the exact spot where lord
04:41ram was born mr varma said lord ram was a chakravarti samrath he was born in a palace therefore the
04:47birthing chamber for us was this entire area as far as we were concerned we could let's not go into
04:52the
04:52past with you regard let's talk about today let's not let's not go into the past i am talking about
04:58today today today when the vhp is saying that the government of the day is saying we are investigating
05:04these irregularities why are you raising a red flag why don't you have faith in the sit
05:12we do not have faith in the sit we have asked for an immediate disbanding of this trust because
05:18all the trust properties and assets and funds all are the property of bhagwan shri ram lalla virajman
05:23and not our trust that was made and registered at an address in greater kailash one new delhi
05:28the address of bhagwan shri ram lalla virajman is ram janabhumi his office is at ram kacheri mandir
05:34so so this a trust was made if you look at the original trust deed the trust trust was the
05:41stamp
05:41paper was bought by khela ram murmu government of india the government of india was the settler of the
05:46trust they created the trust and decided in the trust deed itself it says that out of all the different
05:51schemes which the supreme court has suggested they find that instead of society or xyz trust is the is
05:58the best solution but that trust is registered in new delhi two places are kept empty in that trust
06:03which later are filled up with mahandita gopal das and champat raiji this particular thing to trust so
06:10you're saying the vhp you're saying the vhp and sang paribar no no you're saying the vhp and sang paribar
06:16hijacked the entire trust or the entire movement is that your charge
06:23not not the movement the trust because the nirmoya khada has been fighting all the way through
06:27in 1959 nirmoya khada as shaibiyat where title of the lord is undisputed challenges the 145 proceedings
06:35which were wrongly instituted on 5-1-1950 these were put into appearance in 1953 for the simple
06:42reason that the city magistrate said there are two civil suits so when the civil suits abate we'll hear the
06:47145 now this 145 rightfully should have been heard after the judgment of the supreme court
06:52because the 145 proceedings were kept in abeyance in that 145 proceeding the land was taken from the
06:58sadhus of the nirmoya khada a list was given of all the items that were found over there including the
07:03murtis the shali gram pathar etc etc vidhi was given to them about how puja is to be done and
07:09the condition
07:09of handing over charge i repeat charge not ownership to the receiver was that a pujari would be appointed
07:16and that pujari system continued all the way through mr lal das ji who was later murdered
07:21and finally ends at satendra das ji maharaj who was the last pujari as far as the receiver was concerned
07:27in 1982 there is a dacoity on the site itself but what was what was acquired in 1950 was only
07:35the inner
07:36courtyard the outer courtyard till 1982 till 17 february 1982 was in the possession and control of the nirmoya khada
07:43so there was no question about the nirmoya khada sir let's not again i repeat let's not go into
07:48the past i am asking i am asking you about today you're going back into the past i am asking
07:53you
07:54about today we have today when when there has been this today when there has been these serious charges
07:59of misappropriation of funds where do you believe the buck stops
08:06the buck stops with the central government which was which was tasked by the supreme court to make
08:11a fair trust to protect the properties of bhagwan shri ram lalla virajwan to build his temple to manage
08:19that temple and ensure that everything is done in a free and transparent manner the central government
08:24did everything the central government in good faith created this trust but the membership of this trust was
08:30manipulated by the vhp and people like mr champatra and nitya gopal das who had no business first of
08:35all to be there because the trust is based on the acquisition of certain areas act 1993 which ruled
08:41that no member of any trust or any trust prior to the date of 9 first 7 january 1993 could
08:47ever be
08:47handed over this property which was acquired by the central government post the demolition on 6 december
08:521992 and it could i take your point 67 acres i take i take your point sir mr chopra mr
09:00chopra just
09:01a minute mr chopra you know you're making very serious sir you're making very serious allegations
09:07the supreme court in his judgment had called for the constitution of a trust what you are saying is
09:12the manner in which the vhp you claim virtually took over the trust the likes of champatra is where you
09:18have your objections i want shiraj naya to respond he must have the right if you give us two minutes
09:23no no i i must allow him to respond just give us one minute rajdeep i'll finish yeah okay okay
09:29please
09:29finish please finish
09:33okay please finish so basically the supreme court judgment in para 804 805 say that after having
09:40taken our shaibyat they they still say that we had we are always had a historical role and presence on
09:45the site without stating what that role and presence was and therefore they recommend to the central
09:50government that in any scheme of management that is made by the central government nirmoyi akhada is
09:54to be given adequate role and representation nirmoyi akhada is a panchayati nanyas it has a board of
10:00governors and as far as we are concerned when you say nirmoyi akhada it means the entire board of 15
10:06members obviously we can't have 15 members in the trust so we were being satisfied with three but we don't
10:12get three one of our mahants who is based in ayodhya is unilaterally taken into this trust by people who
10:19make this trust now that is against our constitution can i can i now stop you anything is passed by
10:27the
10:27entire committee i've heard you now i think it's only fair that i now allow mr shiraj nair a chance
10:32to
10:33speak mr shiraj nair you see at this entire issue seems to have split in a way the sadhu sand
10:40samaj the
10:41nirmoyi akhada has run even in the past a campaign or questioned the vhp or the vhp's monopoly that it
10:46tried to establish over the ram mandir or the politicization of of the entire movement now all
10:52of this happens do you concede this has caused huge reputational damage is it enough for a champa try
10:58to say look i am innocent others did this it surely goes well beyond that because i'm looking at the
11:04report again the report is very very detailed and suggests that there was a huge failure at different
11:10levels particularly on supervision and institutionally well rajiv we were very clear in the first week of
11:22jule july when all these things came up we were the first to say that we don't want to shield
11:29anybody
11:29we don't want to protect anybody the sit was formed eight people were arrested two trustees champad
11:36rajiv and annal mishraja resigned and now the society has asked for some more time definitely
11:41it has hurt i in your last show also i said 120 crore hindus have been deeply hurt because of
11:50this act
11:50this act which has happened it is unimaginable nobody could imagine that this kind of things could have
11:56happened 500 years of struggle by hindus to regain this temple and this bhavya diva temple had had come up
12:04every people from across the world mr chopra is saying that the trust should be discovered coming
12:09no no mr chopra is making a more he's claiming that the manner in which the trust was constituted the
12:15vhp
12:15and dare i say the center chose its own representatives excluded people who according to him should have been
12:22there it should have been more inclusive and thereby the wish way the buck therefore stops with the
12:27sang paribar you took over the trust this trust was not meant only for the sang paribar it should have
12:33been a
12:34wider more inclusive body is what is being suggested
12:40should it be disbanded now
12:42When we were asked about the constitution of the trust,
12:46see, now the matter is subsidized.
12:49Karthik, I didn't speak anything.
12:50What I want, Mr. Chopra, let him complete.
12:53Let Mr. Nayar complete.
12:54I never came in between.
12:57Yeah, please go ahead.
12:58See, the trust consists of various saints
13:01from various mathas and mathas.
13:05You know the trust.
13:06Who chose them?
13:07You have the list of the trustees also.
13:09How were they decided?
13:10Decided by Mahanji.
13:12No, who decided on them?
13:13Who chose them?
13:14See, as I said, now,
13:18see, right now we are talking about
13:20the incident which happened
13:22and the matter is subjudiced.
13:23Now, talking about all these things
13:25at this juncture is absolutely unfair.
13:27Sir, the interim reports are the institutional failure.
13:30I am asking you a simple question.
13:32No, we are not talking about the report.
13:33We are not talking about the report at all.
13:36We are not even talking about the report.
13:37We are talking about other issues.
13:39See, Rajdeep, interim...
13:40So, when you finish...
13:40One minute, one minute.
13:41We definitely agree.
13:42Whatever has happened is absolutely wrong.
13:45But let us wait for the SIT to complete its investigation.
13:49Let's not jump the guns.
13:52Now, there is a lot of rumor mongering happening.
13:55Lot of AI-generated videos coming up.
13:57Right now, we are all eagerly waiting
13:59for the SIT report to be completed.
14:01And whoever is found to be guilty,
14:03we will not side by them.
14:05As per the law of the land...
14:06You made that point to me earlier also, Shiraj.
14:09Our stamp, that is very clear from day one.
14:11Mr. Chopra, you are saying this is not about the report.
14:13Then what is it about?
14:15Is it about control and ownership?
14:18You see, if you go back a couple...
14:20No, if you go back a couple of years,
14:22there was this huge scam that was reported in the media
14:24over the land purchases.
14:26Yes, 2021.
14:27We had that scam.
14:27That brought dishonor to Bhagawan Sri Ramlalala Virajman.
14:30And after that, the trust at that time
14:33was only receiving funds from within India.
14:36Later, they got the FCRA license
14:37and started receiving funds from Hindus all over the world.
14:41From every corner of the world,
14:42Hindus suddenly sprung up and started donating.
14:45Those Hindus want to know
14:46that if they've sent money in dollar, pound, euro, dirham,
14:50has it reached the trust?
14:51At what rate was it received?
14:53At what rate was it converted?
14:55What was that money used for?
14:57Was it used for anything for public purposes,
14:59for Shraddhaloos?
15:00Or did it just get deposited?
15:01Did it get used in the construction of the temple?
15:04Mr. Nipendam Mishra did an excellent job
15:07in managing the temple construction.
15:10We salute him for doing that.
15:12We have full faith in the Honorable Home Minister
15:14and Prime Minister of our country
15:16because they, in good faith, created this trust.
15:19But when the members were chosen,
15:20somebody else chose those members.
15:22We'd like it to be found out who chose those members.
15:24There were certain senior people
15:26from the opposing side
15:27who prior to the mediation visited us
15:29and other people
15:30and made us,
15:32offered us various concessions
15:33because at that time,
15:34Manji had offered four acres of land
15:37at Maniparwar to be given to the Muslim side
15:39in exchange for the Muslim side
15:41giving up its claim.
15:43During the mediation,
15:44I cannot get into those details
15:45because those were,
15:46we had a gag order.
15:47I have only a minute.
15:48However, Rajiv Dhawan in the Supreme Court
15:50I have only a minute.
15:51Mr. Chopra, I have only a minute.
15:52During the hearings, he says that,
15:54sure.
15:56So, I want, I want Sriraj Nayar.
15:58So, essentially what we say,
15:59that the same way,
16:00No, no, Sriraj Nayar,
16:01The same way,
16:02145 was,
16:03was yesterday,
16:04we want 145 to be implemented.
16:07We would like the central government
16:08to close this trust,
16:10take control of what assets,
16:11appoint a receiver.
16:13And if the central government
16:14could not do it,
16:15they could request
16:15the Honorable Supreme Court
16:17to appoint a receiver.
16:18See, yesterday,
16:19Govindev Giri Maharaji
16:20clarified everything
16:21and the trust is open
16:24for whoever wants to come
16:25and check
16:25about their donations,
16:28whether in cash or in kind.
16:30Everything is at place.
16:32Now,
16:32No, if you all speak over each other,
16:34we can't hear.
16:35Mr. Chopra, you,
16:36Mr. Chopra, you,
16:38Mr. Chopra,
16:38this can't be a monologue.
16:40You know,
16:40Sriraj Nayar,
16:41I want you to conclude
16:42by just saying,
16:43Mr. Chopra is raising valid points.
16:45You see, the fear is
16:46that in your,
16:48the BHP believed
16:49that they had virtually
16:51taken over this movement.
16:52And therefore,
16:53today,
16:54when the trust
16:56and your senior representatives
16:58are found to have
17:00made supervisory failures,
17:02if not anything else,
17:03surely the trust
17:04should be disbanded
17:05and there should be a trust
17:07which should be appointed
17:07in a manner
17:08that it's not some
17:09close club of yours.
17:11This is not some
17:11close club.
17:12This is a trust
17:13in which millions of people
17:15have placed their faith.
17:16The BHP has not taken
17:18the theka
17:18for all,
17:19for whatever happens there.
17:20You will have to open it up.
17:22You will have to be
17:22subject to scrutiny now.
17:27Yes, Rajdeep,
17:28first of all,
17:29all statutory obligations,
17:30compliances are met.
17:32Audits are done
17:33on regular intervals.
17:34Now, yesterday,
17:35the treasurer of the trust,
17:37Sri Govind Dev Giri Maharaj,
17:39clearly said,
17:40whoever wants to come
17:42and check,
17:43the trust office
17:44is duty bound
17:45to inform very clearly
17:47about the donations
17:48they have made
17:49to the trust,
17:50whether in kind also.
17:52Now,
17:52what is happening is
17:53the temple,
17:54Garbhagra is not a museum
17:55to place all the articles
17:57given by the donors.
17:59So,
17:59the trust is duty bound.
18:00Now,
18:00second thing,
18:01what he is saying
18:02is about hijacking
18:04and all,
18:04this is all right now.
18:05I think it's all uncalled for.
18:08Sir,
18:09you may say,
18:09he is going for
18:09major reforms.
18:11Three people are appointed.
18:13There are going to be
18:14major reforms
18:15in coming here.
18:15we will wait and see.
18:16Mr. Nayar.
18:17We are ourselves
18:17are hurt for whatever.
18:18Okay,
18:19sir,
18:19hurt is enough,
18:20but hurt must come with.
18:23no,
18:23Mr. Nayar,
18:24Mr. Nayar,
18:25now I will stop you also
18:26because hurt must come
18:27with accountability
18:28and the fact is
18:29questions are being raised
18:30by the Nirmoyi Akhada
18:31and other groups now
18:32and therefore,
18:33the VHP cannot escape
18:35responsibility.
18:36You cannot pass the buck
18:37anymore.
18:37I appreciate my guest
18:39joining me on the show today.
18:41I've run out of time.
18:42I appreciate all of you
18:43joining me.
18:44Thank you very much.
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