- 15 hours ago
In this episode of To The Point, the top focus is on the controversy over Diljit Dosanjh's 'Satluj', which was removed from OTT two days after its release.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary.
00:02The big news coming in from the Ram Mandir Trust meeting.
00:05All eyes were on that and the news filtering in seems to suggest
00:08that sweeping changes have been made where the trust comes into question.
00:13Champath Rai and Anil Mishra's resignation accepted.
00:17We're going to break it down, but first up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:24Sweeping changes at Ram Mandir Trust after their key meeting ends.
00:27Champath Rai and Anil Mishra's resignations accepted.
00:30Krishna Mohan named Interim General Secretary.
00:36Mumbai and Sabah continue to reel under relentless rain,
00:40severe waterlogging across several areas.
00:42A police is killed and one injured after a three-story chawl collapses in Mumbai's Mankhurd area.
00:51Barely weeks after its inauguration,
00:54traffic on missing link of Mumbai-Pune expressway disrupted by monsoon-triggering landslide.
01:01Questions now begin to be asked about engineering resilience of India's newest mountain expressway.
01:09Shocking rape and murder of a 12-year-old miner in South 24 Paraganas of Bengal.
01:15Key accused along with two others arrested.
01:17Bengal chief minister takes stock, assures justice to family of victim,
01:22but also puts Mamata Banerjee, the former chief minister of Bengal, under house arrest.
01:33Diljeet Dosanj reacts after his film Satloj was taken off an OTT platform.
01:39Says he is happy with response that the movie has received.
01:43The film is based on life of activist Jaswan Singh Kalra
01:46and had premiered on the platform on the third after years of delay.
01:50He also had suggested earlier that he suspected that the film would be taken down.
02:12All right, the latest news break coming in.
02:14The Ram Mandir Trust meet has just ended a short while ago
02:17and the biggest takeaway coming in,
02:19sweeping changes that the Trust was forced to take in.
02:23Chhampath Rai, Anil Mishra's resignations have both been accepted by the Trust.
02:28It's said that they were automatically accepted.
02:31Now, with these acceptance of resignations,
02:34Interim General Secretary has been appointed in the form of Krishna Mohan.
02:39Will more action take place?
02:41The next meeting of the Trust has been designated for the 22nd of July.
02:45But this was accepted that the Trust that has come under a lot of fire and scrutiny,
02:51banged in the middle of the controversy of donation theft where Ram Mandir is concerned,
02:58understood that Chhampath Rai and Anil Mishra,
03:00there was possibly no way out,
03:02that the Trust would have had to accept their resignation.
03:05And that has actually happened.
03:07Let's cut across and listen in to all reactions that are coming in.
03:10So,
03:37it's all about our community,
03:40a
03:41a
03:42a
03:42a
03:42a
03:42a
03:42a
03:43a
03:43a
03:43a
03:44a
04:14a
04:14a
04:14a
04:14a
04:20a
04:22a
04:23a
04:24a
04:24a
04:26a
04:27a
04:27a
04:27a
04:29a
04:30a
04:30a
04:31a
04:31a
04:44a
04:57a
04:57a
04:57a
05:04a
05:04a
05:04a
05:07a
05:23a
05:24a
05:27a
05:27a
05:27a
05:27a
05:27a
05:27a
05:27a
05:33a
05:36a
05:38a
05:39a
05:50a
05:51a
05:53a
05:53a
05:53a
05:53a
05:55a
05:56a
05:57a
06:01a
06:20a
06:21a
06:21a
06:21a
06:21a
06:24a
06:25a
06:26a
06:29a
06:32a
06:33a
06:34a
06:34a
06:34a
06:43a
06:44a
06:45a
06:46a
06:50a
06:51a
06:51a
06:51a
06:55a
06:56a
06:57a
06:57a
06:58a
06:58a
06:58a
07:02a
07:08a
07:08a
07:08a
07:12a
07:12a
07:22a
07:23a
07:23a
07:23a
07:23a
07:23a
07:24a
07:24a
07:26a
07:29a
07:34a
07:35have no right to either accept or deny that particular thing in a way he's
07:39trying to what the statement clearly shows that he wants to show that Champa
07:43Traye hasn't been proven guilty yet so far till the time the final report of the
07:48SIT comes in and that's why he was very calculated to see the statement of
07:52Govind Giri his statements regarding Champa Traye are very calculated he even
07:56says that Champa Traye himself did not want to in a way stay in that position
07:59after this particular thing also what we got from the sources that the police
08:03team also interrogated Champa Traye where he in a way accepted many things even
08:06Champa Traye was quite upset with these particular updates and he clarified to
08:11the trust that he himself did not want to in a way pursue or continue for the with
08:14that position in the trust when all these things are happening his known people
08:18have backstabbed him that's what the versions of Champa Traye have come so far
08:21and now Govind Giri is saying all of that in the press conference so one thing is
08:25very clear that the resignation has finally been done so Champa Traye and Anil
08:30Mishra are not are not now are no more the strong people in the in the trust now
08:36this is the one big thing another big thing which comes to the light that the
08:39trust will wait for the final report of the SIT and then another meeting will
08:43take place on 22nd of July where new trust members will be formed for the
08:48further action for the in a way cleaning of the trust what currently the
08:52embezzlement thing is going inside within the trust another important point is the
08:56interim general secretary Krishna Mohan Yadav so he is somebody who has been
09:02associated with the trust for long he was the one who initiated that particular
09:06procedure of the FIA against the aid accused in this particular Ram temple
09:10theft case so these are the three major chunks which comes out of this particular
09:14PC also interestingly what we were showing what we were seeing on the social
09:18media about the about the jewelry about the Ramchirth Manas the gold plated gold Ramchirth Manas the trust
09:24claims that everything is safe within the trust nothing has gone even when it
09:29comes to the ornament and other belongings as per the donation though he's
09:33not claiming about the cash he's not claiming about that particular money but
09:36yet he claims that whatever is registered he has got he showed the
09:39register to the media persons he clearly said said that he has got 2800
09:42belongings records of those donations he got from the different people across
09:46the world at the Ram Mandir so the press conference was more about this
09:50particular announcement number one the acceptance of the
09:53resignation what we say either acceptance or that all right someone stay with me
09:56let's get in reactions that are filtering in right now I got jump at the
10:01analogy of my problem for one area in gay so what Josh ko prawa with karsak
10:07the Gabao ko samjha sakte kuch kuchu evidence kesa chale karkar sakte
10:14is a
10:16I have a
10:17एसा ना हो ना दीखे इसलिए जो चंपत जी ने और अनिल जी ने इस्तीफा दिया उनकी भावना का आधर
10:29करते हुए वो त्याग पत्र स्विकार कर लिए गये और अंतरिम विवस्था ये डॉक्टर ये टृष्टनमोहन जी जो ट्रस्टी है
10:41उनको सौंपी गई ये बाद में
10:45kind of
11:13the
11:13future
11:13of
11:14and
11:15future
11:15of
11:15of
11:15कीमती वस्तु में भा सब सुरक्षित हैं और जिस किसी ने भी ऐसी कोई वस्तु दान दी थी वो चाहे
11:24तो ट्रस्ट के ऑफिस में समय तैकर के आए और सत्यापन कर ले ऐसा खुला निमंत्रन ट्रस्टियों ने दिया है
11:36चांदी जो थी वो गला ली गई है और जो चांदी गला
11:42आई गई है वो कौन सी थी किसकी थी इसका रिकॉर्ड भी उपलब्द है इसका भी सत्यापन हो गया है
11:50बहुत सारे लोग आरोप लगा रहे हैं उनके पास कुछ जानकारियां होंगी कुछ डाक्यूमेंट्स होंगे कोई गवाही होगी उन सब
12:05से प्रार्थना किये है कि सत्य
12:09कि खोज के लिए अगर वो अपने आरोपों के लिए गंभी रहें तो उनको एसाइटी को आकर के वह रिपोर्ट
12:16करना चाहिए एसाइटी को कहेंगे तो जांच में साहता भी लेगी इतना सब होने के बाद भी इस सारे दुश
12:26प्रचार से अब प्रभावित रहेकर वहां रा
12:38आवे में जो कीम्ती समान था उसको लेके बहुत सारे सवाल उधाए गाए गए और कुछ लोगोने ग्जांपल भी इया
12:44जहे वो पाच्करोड वाली सोने की जो रमाइन है वो गायरू वहीत
12:49Alright, lots of reactions coming in. You just heard from the VHP and right before the trust meeting, the RSS
12:54has had also come out and said that the trust needs to re-instill the trust that people, devotees across
13:02India had laid in them.
13:04We are going to continue tracking the details of that development but the biggest news coming in from that meeting
13:10is that both Champathrai and Anil Mishra's resignations have been accepted.
13:16We are going to continue to get you more but viewers, let's now shift focus to the other big story
13:21that we are tracking very closely right here on India Today.
13:24And it's seemingly about the mysterious disappearance of a film from an OTT platform.
13:33The irony is that this very film covered and looked at and studied and spoke of the alleged mysterious disappearance
13:42of 25,000 people,
13:45their illegal abduction and cremation during the insurgency in Punjab in the early 19th.
13:52A film, Satluj, that spent years battling censorship, vanished in just 48 hours.
14:00Diljeev Dosanj's star of Satluj has been pulled off an OTT platform barely two days after its OTT release.
14:09The very reason that the film chose to take the OTT route was because it fought for about three or
14:17four years,
14:17the case going all the way to the top court where the censor board wanted over 120 cuts and the
14:24filmmakers refused to make them.
14:26So they took the route of an OTT platform because it is easier to relay the film there without these
14:35cuts.
14:36Having said that, just two days of its release on that OTT platform, the film was pulled down.
14:41Igniting with it outrage, fueling a political storm and reopening the debate about censorship and also what really went down
14:50in the early 90s in Punjab.
14:52While announcing the takedown, the OTT platform, Z5 in question, insisted the response to Satluj had been overwhelming.
15:01It never really detailed why, who, what took down the film.
15:06The platform said it stands firmly with the makers, but with the current developments, with what has happened, the film
15:13is no longer on the platform.
15:16The Z5 went on to say that it remains committed to championing authentic stories, but has made the film unavailable
15:23in India till further notice.
15:24No reason that was really given, and that's quite foxing.
15:28Even as streaming has been suspended, Z5 says it is exploring legal options, is committed to bringing the film back
15:35to its audiences.
15:36The question though, viewers, is, why has Satluj become such a lightning rod?
15:42It's based on the life of human rights activist, in this case, Jaswant Singh Kalra, who was a bank employee,
15:49who at the time of insurgency and disappearances in Punjab gave up everything, became a human rights activist.
15:57And then, in 1995, was abducted, never to be found, who exposed the alleged illegal cremation of thousands of unidentified
16:06bodies during Punjab's militancy years.
16:08The film also revisits the alleged disappearance of these people.
16:13Now, before Kalra himself was abducted and then later killed in 1995, the journey to the screen of this film
16:20was no less turbulent.
16:22It has been a four-year-old journey.
16:25The CBFC reportedly sought more than 125 cuts before clearing the film.
16:30The makers refused, the film never saw theatrical release, and finally premiered directly on OTT, from where it was taken
16:37down, like I said, in two days.
16:39The main star of this film, who projects Kalra himself, is Diljeet Dosanj.
16:44Well, he isn't quite backing down.
16:46The actor has defended Satlaj, saying that this is a story that deserves to be told, despite years of obstacles.
16:52He also said that he suspected that the film will be pulled down.
16:56Sources say certain portions of the film could be misused by anti-India forces.
17:00Now, that is the reasoning that has been given by many government sources.
17:04There is, and I must reiterate this, no official reason, law, development, which seems to suggest that this film was
17:11taken down.
17:12But sources seem to suggest that it was taken down because it could once again fan anti-India sentiment in
17:19the state of Punjab,
17:20raising concerns that go beyond certification and censorship.
17:25However, the issue has become highly political.
17:28The Shirumani Akali Dal, the SGPC Congress, the Ahmadinei Party have all entered the debate,
17:33backing the film and questioning its removal, turning Satlaj from just an OTT release into Punjab's latest political flashpoint.
17:43So, the question also is, has the ban on Satlaj only made the film that much bigger?
17:50Has censorship only sparked curiosity in people?
17:55Let's listen in to all reactions.
18:27Let's listen in to all questions.
18:57Let's listen in to all questions.
18:57ouverture itself is radio imp annat.
19:02For many people just wanted to comment in the country.
19:05Let's listen.
19:47We in Punjab demand the immediate restoration of Punjabi film Sat Luj
19:53enacted by Diljeet Dushan, the pride of Punjab, based on the elimination of Professor Jaswan Singh Khalida
20:02who was a human right activist in Punjab in 1995.
20:08This film was withheld by the censor board for the last three years.
20:12The name was changed twice, finally settled at Sat Luj.
20:16It was aired on the Z5 platform and within hours it was removed from the platform.
20:21So we feel that this is extreme, you know, discrimination with Punjab
20:27because this story is based on absolute true facts.
20:32Alright, so viewers, what you just saw was the politics of it.
20:35But there is a polity which is also concerned.
20:38And has this film in its ban only been made bigger?
20:41It's not that there are no questions where this film comes into question.
20:44Alright, but certain questions that we asked this evening.
20:47Under what specific legal, provisions, statutory power or written government order
20:52was the film Sat Luj removed from streaming in India?
21:00Was the action taken under the IT rules, the IT Act or any other legal framework?
21:06Because even the OTT platform has said it was removed with certain developments that have taken place.
21:12We don't know what those developments are.
21:15Can politically inconvenient storytelling find space in our country?
21:20This is a question that needs to be asked.
21:23And lastly, will a ban end up generating more interest in Sat Luj than it suppresses?
21:30Alright, at the back of it, viewers, there is a certain set that does believe that possibly
21:38the film Sat Luj over-exaggerates the numbers of 25,000 abducted and cremated.
21:45And there has never really, that number has never quite been corroborated.
21:49So there are multiple thoughts.
21:50But why the ban is what we are debating on this show this evening.
21:55Joining me, Mayank Tiwari, screenwriter.
21:57He has written for many OTT platforms.
22:00Joining me also is Vineet Jindal, advocate.
22:03He has filed a complaint with the MHA regarding the film Sat Luj.
22:06He says that he is sought an FYR now, directly against Diljeet Dosanj.
22:11I also have with me Kamarpal Singh Bittu.
22:14He is from Dal Khalsa.
22:16I have Karanbir Singh Sidhu.
22:18He is the former special chief.
22:20He is chief secretary.
22:22Punjab was the deputy commissioner of Amritsar.
22:25When Bhai Jaswant Singh Kalra was abducted from his residence in Amritsar
22:30on the 6th of September 1995.
22:34He, at that time, had apparently ordered a magisterial inquiry.
22:38He was also a witness in the case of the CBI conducted case
22:42where many, at that time, police personnel were convicted
22:46and some of them are still serving their sentence.
22:49We also have with us Ravinder Singh Beans.
22:51He was Jaswant Singh Kalra's lawyer, senior advocate and is a human rights activist.
22:56Before I cut across to others, I'd like to cut across to Mr. Ravinder Singh Beans.
23:01Mr. Beans, when you look at the story for a man that you represented
23:05and you represented many like him, especially during the early 90s,
23:10what's your take, sir?
23:16No, I know just one thing, personally, and I know him as a very decent human being,
23:22a person you look up to it, and he was always very helpful and courageous.
23:28If any system of governance wants to target such a man
23:32and somebody wants to tell the story, which is not only inspirational,
23:36but it's a course correction, that's not a way any country or any state should be governed
23:41where you kill such kind of person.
23:44There's a person who's using law to help people.
23:47He used to file habeas cost petitions in the high court
23:50where he find people disappeared.
23:54So, a man completely against in constitutional and legal work,
23:58he himself was a lawyer, he himself was part of political party,
24:03he was head of a human rights wing of a mainstream political party,
24:07and such a man is killed extrajudicially only because he unearthed evidence,
24:13and evidence is refutable evidence,
24:15evidence which was ultimately upheld in the Supreme Court,
24:19evidence where the Supreme Court and the National Human Rights Commission
24:22is compelled to give to 1,500 families compensation,
24:27and some 125 police officers stand convicted as on today.
24:33He was doing something which is something which a very normal, happy, good citizen should do,
24:39ensuring that there is a rule of law in the country,
24:42ensuring that the police works in accordance with law,
24:46and not just pick up and kill something which has not happened in the rest of the country also.
24:54We repeatedly thereafter are seeing such kind of extrajudicial killing
24:58in Manipur, in Kashmir, in Chhattisgarh, in UP,
25:02and the mainstream narrative has completely changed too,
25:06that if you are unable to solve the crime, you start killing.
25:09This is what basically every human rights activists protest.
25:13This is a very, very dangerous shortcut method.
25:17It actually kills the basis of the criminal justice system.
25:20Mr. Baines, for somebody who knew Mr. Khalra personally,
25:22who represented him legally,
25:24I want to ask you a very direct question,
25:25because there is a whole set today which says
25:28that Jaswan Singh Khalra had very strong anti-India, Khalistani sentiments.
25:33Is there any truth at all, or is that just bunkum and hogwash?
25:40He was as, his thinking was as secular as my thinking.
25:45It is a complete lie.
25:47It is something which is a misinformation to say that he has been,
25:53he just was doing what I have been doing for the last 40 years.
25:56He, in fact, did it better.
25:58He was going to field and collecting evidence.
26:01All subsequent narrators, look at his friends, look at his family.
26:04Not one person, his grandfather was a freedom fighter
26:07who fought for the freedom of this country.
26:11And you just taint him like that.
26:13You could not file a single case against him.
26:15What is the police version?
26:16We don't want him.
26:17He is not wanted.
26:18He is not involved in any crime.
26:20That's what the police defense in the Supreme Court.
26:22When you don't have any evidence, how do you even say?
26:26Look at each writing, his speeches.
26:28He campaigned in parliament election of 1992.
26:31And we have recorded speeches.
26:34Not as single speech talks of Khalistan.
26:37Not as single speech talks of separatism.
26:39He was plainly talking of good governance, rule, law.
26:43He was against injustice.
26:44Something every Sikh is.
26:46Every Punjabi is.
26:47We protest.
26:48If this is a sin, this is something which the constitution needs such people.
26:53Country needs such people.
26:55So that the established authority knows what is, how to be lawful, how to be humane.
27:01You don't kill citizens like that.
27:03That's what he was doing.
27:04But Mr. Baines, what of, again, you know, I'm trying to ask you all questions.
27:09I'm trying to play the devil's advocate.
27:11You represented him.
27:12You knew the man very well.
27:13You knew the times very well that he existed in and what the times were.
27:18There is a sense which seems to suggest that possibly the likes of KPS Gill have been villainized in a
27:25manner.
27:26He did the best he could at that point of time.
27:28And the 25,000 figure that has been mentioned multiple times in this film of disappearances, of forced abductions, of
27:37cremations, extrajudicial killings, is an inflated figure.
27:41The figure never quite existed.
27:46I will just counter it by very specific data.
27:49You see, 2097 persons he counted and that's upheld in the Supreme Court.
27:54Thereafter, internationally known human rights activist Ram Narayan Kumar published the book Reduce to Ashes with 2,700 more cases.
28:05Thereafter, in SAAF, on his website, found out even 5,500 cases.
28:10And lately, another organization found 6,600 new cases once the RTI came and they collected all FIRs.
28:19That petition is pending in the High Court for last five years.
28:23So, we have already counted 17,000 people.
28:27And if the Jaswan Singh Khalra set of the pictures are 25,000, effort of 15 persons can collect reliable
28:34information about 17,000 disappearances,
28:37certainly 25,000 is not an exaggerated figure.
28:4017,000 we have counted.
28:42We have evidence.
28:42We have FIRs.
28:43We have the name of the person of the families.
28:46We have witnesses even now.
28:47To say that this is exaggerated, it may be underestimated.
28:51But it's certainly not exaggerated because even we could count 17,000.
28:55And the government has not constituted any commission.
28:59So, they don't have any data.
29:01They just see it's exaggeration.
29:03We have the data.
29:04We have been collecting data.
29:05Now you count us.
29:07There is no official reason why this…
29:09It's a part of judicial record.
29:10Sir, I'm going to ask you one question before I let you go.
29:13There is no official statement by any body which says why this film was taken down.
29:20But sources seem to indicate that it could, at a time of peace, because Punjab has moved on from there,
29:26and some would even suggest that if there was no KPS Gill at that point of time,
29:31the insurgency would have lasted a lot more.
29:34And because Punjab has moved on, to release a film at this point of time, right before an election,
29:40could in fact register an anti-India sentiment and a pro-Khalistani sentiment.
29:45Do you see that correct?
29:46Do you see that could be an excuse or you don't make any of it?
29:53You see, if you don't like an idea, to suppress is not the solution.
29:57It's a…
29:57If you have a freedom, you will obviously express, you will make films on items which not all agree.
30:04Punjab has a controversial history.
30:07KPS Gill is a hero for many.
30:09But in Punjab, he's a villain number one.
30:12Therefore, generations to come in Punjab will never going to accept KPS Gill as a great fighter and a police
30:17corps.
30:17The way it is, he's viewed as a brutal police officer who did not use any police method except a
30:24military method of killing.
30:26He organized gangs to kill people and then cremate the bodies.
30:29He went completely outside the frame law and therefore, but the national narrative is he's a hero.
30:36He's a super cop.
30:37We do not find that narrative correct.
30:40And Jaswan Singh Khalra's story actually shows the other picture, other side of the picture.
30:45For 30 years, you have been saying he's a super cop.
30:47What harm it will done if you have another movie, another hero, another inspiration.
30:52Maybe the truth lies in between.
30:54But the attempt to kill that story, the attempt not to show that story shows the fear that the truth
31:00might emerge.
31:01That KPS Gill may not be the super cop as he's told to be.
31:05All right.
31:06Mr. Baines, I thank you for taking the time out and joining us.
31:09There you had Mr. Baines, who not only represented Jaswan Singh Khalra, but also knew him personally at the time.
31:17I'm joined by now by Karanbir Singh and our other panelists.
31:20I want to cut across to Mr. Sandhu.
31:22Karanbir Singh Sandhu is the former Special Chief Secretary.
31:25But importantly, he was the Deputy Commissioner of Amritsar, looked at the Tarantaran District, which was the hotbed of insurgency
31:31in the early 90s.
31:33He actually ordered a magisterial inquiry at the back of the disappearance of Jaswan Singh Khalra.
31:40But today, Mr. Sandhu, you believe this film will only cause more unrest than do good.
31:48You see, let us go to the context first.
31:51It is not only the early 90s that you saw insurgency and almost unabiding violence.
31:56Ever since Operation Blue Star and even before that, you had this endless circle of, you know, police killing terrorists
32:04and terrorists killing innocent people, whether Hindus and Sikhs and so on.
32:08And the type of figures that we are discussing today are not, you know, something derived from six months.
32:15These are cumulative figures coming out of post-Blue Star till Mr. Khalra is, you know, documenting those.
32:24And essentially, what really was the basic database on which he worked was the cremation register, which the municipal cooperation
32:32maintains.
32:35In their cremation ground close to Durgana Mandir.
32:39And in many such cases, it was said that these are the bodies which are unidentified bodies.
32:45And therefore, those figures were collated.
32:49And ultimately, the figure of 2096 has come up from there.
32:53Now, from the police angle, what they say is that, you know, there was an encounter and unidentified people were
33:00there who were killed.
33:01We had no reason, methodology of determining who they were.
33:06And of their accord, they would say that in many cases, the parents would refuse to identify their own kids.
33:11And they'd say, you know, we haven't seen his son, but he's been on the run for three years, four
33:16years, and so on, so forth.
33:18And therefore, please, you know, you cremate him and so on.
33:22Now, coming to that fateful day, we should again place it in context.
33:27The situation in Punjab, from all accounts, by February 1994 was almost normal or towards normalcy.
33:35And you didn't have, you know, daily killings and so on taking place.
33:39And by that time, Mr. Kharao was the general secretary of Sharunia Khalidala, a mainstream party.
33:44And also a well-known international figure.
33:47He'd been traveling to Canada and making speeches there and drawing attention to these killings,
33:52which by implication was that these are extrajudicial killings.
33:58And, you know, this requires a kind of investigation.
34:01His red petition was dismissed by the Punjab and Harayana High Court.
34:06And the appeal was pending with the Supreme Court Justice Kuldeep Singh.
34:11That was, again, you know, to have a huge, comprehensive, all-embracing investigation into all such disappearances,
34:20extrajudicial killings and so on.
34:22So, on 31st August 1995, Sardar Byant Singh, he's assassinated.
34:27And six days after, to be precise, on 6th of September,
34:32Mr. Khalidala is picked up by people purportedly of Punjab police.
34:36I am the district magistrate and deputy commissioner.
34:38And the people, they say, you know, he's been picked up.
34:41We don't know whether they're terrorists, whether they're police people and so on.
34:44They have not told us what the case is.
34:46So, I get in touch with the SSP Amrissar.
34:50And Revenue District Amrissar had three SSPs, Amrissar, Majitha, which is Amrissar Rural, and Tarantara.
34:57And since he was abducted from his residence in police district Amrissar,
35:02bang next to opposite the...
35:03So, you ordered, because there's a shortage of time, you ordered a magisterial inquiry.
35:07The question I want to ask you, Mr. Sandhu, the question, Mr. Sandhu, I'd like to ask you is,
35:13why do you think that the timing of the film is not right and it might actually fan anti-India
35:18sentiment?
35:19You see, what is very important is, what is the context?
35:22And many people would say that it is a one-sided story.
35:26And people who are now, you know, 32, 33, we are talking of incidents which are 30 years, 35 years,
35:3440 years old.
35:35So, now you present something which shows that there was absolute brutality
35:40without, you know, presenting as to what was happening on the other side.
35:45It was a proxy war by Pakistan and people who were terrorists, militants, you know, Khalistani,
35:51whatever you call them, you had two DIG-level people killed in encounters.
35:55So, it was not as if, you know, one-sided war was going on.
35:59And as regards super cops like Mr. Roberto and Mr. KPS Gill, they had been around since 1984
36:05and President's Rule from 87 to 92 was there.
36:08So, the point coming to specifically on kind of paucity of time,
36:14one would say that this movie, first of all, if the censor board had proposed 120 cuts,
36:21then definitely those were the things that you didn't want this to be displayed in public theatres and cinemas.
36:30So, you're saying it was best that the film not be aired at this time?
36:33You know, those were difficult situations.
36:35I think firstly, we need to answer the regulatory framework that if something
36:39which requires a censor board to get into the public theatres
36:43requires only a self-certification for an OTT platform.
36:47Okay, but that's a legal, that's a legal, yeah.
36:49You're right, sir. That is the legal explanation to it.
36:51But on a cultural context, you do feel that the timing of the film wasn't right.
36:55Correct, sir?
36:57Irrespective, no, please don't put words into my mouth.
37:00Okay, no, I apologize.
37:01What the modifications were of the people to release it, this thing?
37:06I mean, with the political motivation, you could say elections are coming
37:09and therefore this would present Congress.
37:11Fair point.
37:11No, I don't want to put words in your mouth.
37:12So, basically what you're saying is that we just, I will paraphrase
37:16that maybe what needs to be investigated is on what motivated the makers
37:19to release the film at this point of time.
37:21Correct, sir?
37:22No, what I would say is that the film was released irrespective of the motivation.
37:27What was the impact?
37:28There are people sitting, youngsters within Punjab, both Hindus and Sikhs,
37:32people sitting across youngsters throughout India, youngsters abroad
37:36and anti-national elements sitting in foreign domains
37:39who would say, hey, this is something which Government of India has allowed to hear
37:43and without getting the other side of the story of what happened in the brutalities.
37:47Which was, no one is justifying extrajudicial killing of Pai Jiswan Singh Kharada.
37:53Six people have been given life imprisonment.
37:56Their conviction has been upheld up to the level of Supreme Court
37:59and they cannot be released.
38:01They're still there.
38:04There is a flip side to it.
38:06And if you are, you know, you have a point there, like Mr. Baines had a point
38:09that this story needs to be told, there is a flip side to it
38:12because at the time if you speak to a lot of journalists who've covered the Times
38:15would also say that there were terrorists who had started to target
38:18the families of police personnel.
38:20So there had to be a pushback of sorts.
38:22So, you know, I understand and we're going to try and at least, you know,
38:25give out that balanced view here.
38:26But I want to cut across to Mr. Bittu there.
38:29He's from Dal Khalsa.
38:30And I'll ask him that question, you know, taking off from what Mr. Sandhu said,
38:34that Mr. Bittu, you know, the government sources seem to suggest
38:39and sometimes things are very, very, you know, it can blow up into a larger,
38:47it's so sensitive that a film can really invoke sentiments in a manner
38:51that the country could suffer.
38:53So government sources tell us that looking at the security concerns,
38:59claiming it could be misused by anti-India elements,
39:02could fan pro-Khalistani sentiment,
39:05that could be the reason that the film has been taken down.
39:08Do you think that's fair or unfair?
39:13This is the lame excuses.
39:15How come this film disturbs the law and order in Punjab?
39:19How come this film raises the question of national security?
39:25What has been depicted in the picture?
39:27This is the real stories.
39:29We have suffered.
39:30We have witnessed these things in Punjab.
39:33So let the people of the world and let the people of the Indian civil society
39:39know how India handled the Punjab conflict.
39:45And let me also tell you, within 72 hours, every household of Punjab has downloaded the film.
39:58It is being circulated and spread not only in Punjab, but across the Sikh globe.
40:07All right.
40:08You know, it's a complex situation.
40:10I want to also bring in Mayang Tiwari, who's just a pure screenwriter.
40:13Mayang Tiwari, one would suggest then that there is,
40:16where political narrative comes into question, is one thing.
40:20But when national security comes into the question, it's another.
40:23How does one draw a line there?
40:25This film has been taken down.
40:27There are no laws that govern the OTT space.
40:29It's largely self-regulatory.
40:30We still don't know why it's been taken down.
40:35Thank you for having me on the show.
40:37Firstly, I believe that the government narrative, which was put by one gentleman here,
40:41that this is not the right time and what will you think?
40:44See, we have to be very clear about this.
40:46India is a democracy.
40:48India is also a certain government.
40:50And India is also a state machinery.
40:52This state machinery is represented by the police, by the government, at the ground level.
40:58This is what the people, common people, do.
41:00Now, whether it is one kind of government or another kind of government,
41:04any kind of film that is talking about the excesses of the state against a citizen,
41:09they all need to be made.
41:11And India or anywhere in the world, we don't make such film.
41:14Because the state machinery works in a very defensive way
41:18and presents arguments that it is against the interests of the nation and itself, the state.
41:22While it is true that they may be true to this argument, the government has a lot of funds.
41:28The government has its own external affairs ministry.
41:30They have filmmakers who can make films.
41:32We can always make films that bring out the truth.
41:35But why is it that when a brave filmmaker like Hanit Rehan goes out, makes a film,
41:40it is only then that people start thinking about how the youth will be influenced.
41:45So I do not support that argument.
41:47And I also feel that as a reporter, before I moved into films, I was a reporter.
41:52And I have personally seen, you know, the courage and the struggle of human rights activists,
41:57nobody supports them.
41:59They go from pillar to post.
42:00And they are, first of all, called anti-national and they are called all kinds of films.
42:05But when it comes to cinema, you are saying everyone has a right to put their point forward
42:10if there can be a space for a Kashmir files, there can be space for a Bengal files, for Kerala
42:17files,
42:17there can be space for this film as well.
42:20I want to bring in Vinit Jindal and Rukit, who filed a complaint with the…
42:23Yes, sir.
42:24Ten seconds, sir.
42:25Make your point.
42:26Before I go, I just want to say, the idea is about state excesses against a citizen.
42:30It could be you, it could be me, it could be anybody on the panel.
42:33These films have to be championed on that ticket.
42:37Okay.
42:38I want to go, I want to bring in Vinit Jindal, advocate who's filed a complaint with the MHA,
42:42who actually wants an FIR to be registered against Diljeet Dosanj.
42:46Why, sir?
42:48It is not only about Diljeet Dosanj, Priti.
42:50It is also about the director and the G5.
42:53The reason behind it, they have bypassed the rules and regulations, which is because their intent is something else.
42:59There are no rules and regulations, sir, when it comes to OTT.
43:02That's why, that's why I am coming to each and every point, what you want to be raised.
43:06It is not only about OTT.
43:08This whole story has been started since four years back.
43:11They have approached the Bombay High Court to, no, give a direction to censor board for taking, no objection for
43:18releasing that movie on the cinema halls.
43:20But during the hearing, that petition has been withdrawn by the director.
43:24Why?
43:25If they are on that justified point, then definitely they are a judicial process.
43:30They can go with it.
43:31They are not doing it.
43:33They are intentionally...
43:34But they have taken the legal route, sir.
43:36They have flouted no rules or no norms.
43:39Before any...
43:40Sir, one second.
43:41The fact is, sir, before any material, any creative material is published on OTT,
43:48it passes certain checks and balances where legality is concerned.
43:52So, clearly this film cleared all those checks and balances and only then was it put on the OTT platform,
43:59which is largely self-regulatory.
44:01We still do not know under which law, rule or was it self-discretion that this film was pulled out.
44:08We have no clue.
44:10Priti, there is no rules and regulation before, no, releasing any movie or serial on OTT platform, I am telling
44:18you.
44:18I have seen already there.
44:19I have seen so many incidents like this.
44:21There are no rules and regulation before, no, releasing the movie on OTT platform.
44:26There is no rule and regulation.
44:28It will be implemented only when the serial or movie has been released on the OTT.
44:33That is only after that has been worked it out.
44:36And that's why the government of India stepped in when this movie has been released.
44:40And why this movie has not been, no, advertised, that these dosage himself says that they know.
44:46They are already being known about this thing that this movie has to be...
44:49I want to just, I want to go to Mr. Sandhu and give him last 30 seconds.
44:53Mr. Sandhu, to draw you back into the conversation because, you know, there's the timing of it.
44:57There's motivation.
44:58Is it the correct time or not?
45:00But there is a huge set today in Punjab who seems to be violated of this film being taken down.
45:07Do you think the backlash of the band could be bigger than just letting people see the film?
45:13You know, it will be presumptuous to see how people react.
45:17What I would say is that, you know, freedom of speech and so on, this is one thing.
45:22Even a sense of out-cleared movie can be banned by the state government if it leads to public order.
45:27We are not talking about national security.
45:28True, sir.
45:29And law and order, widely causing loss to, you know, life and limb of people.
45:34Now, if we allow these type of things, Punjab needs healing.
45:38Punjab already is in the process of healing.
45:40Tomorrow people will want to filmize, you know, dramatized accounts of Operation Blue Star,
45:45where tanks are, you know, attacking Golden Temple.
45:48And then the riots of November or anti-sick program.
45:54So you're saying one has to walk a very fine line when you revisit the scars of history.
46:00Mr. Sidhu, I've run out of time, but I thank all our panelists for joining us.
46:05Mr. Sidhu there and all our panelists, thank you for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
46:09There are, of course, two sides of the story.
46:11We've tried to give you both.
46:12And we let you decide what you make of it.
Comments