- 5 weeks ago
A police investigation into the handling of donations at the Ayodhya temple has resulted in an FIR being filed against several individuals on charges including embezzlement and criminal conspiracy.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome, you're with the news today, your prime time destination news, newsmakers, talking points, the big
00:06talking point this Thursday night, the Ram Mandir FIR has finally been filed, is chandachori or theft of the donations
00:15been proven?
00:16Will those cheated devotees, who cheated devotees be made to pay? Passport, not citizenship proof? Then what is? Time now
00:27for One Nation, One Citizenship ID as some are calling for all those questions and plenty more on the news
00:36today. First, let's get cracking as always with the nine headlines at nine to nine.
00:42FIR finally in the Ram Mandir donation scam. Eight accused are named based on SIT findings, which flagged several lapses
00:51in the handling of cash at Ram Mandir in Ayodhya. Eight people have been arrested.
01:02Political peaks over the citizenship row. MEA says passport, just a travel document. Opposition asks, what then is proof of
01:11citizenship? BJP fact checks, says MEA hasn't announced a new policy. It was in place since several years.
01:21Amidst the raging controversy over the sacrilege video in Punjab, Chief Minister Bhagwat Maan denies the charges once again, says
01:30man in the video is Jagma Samra, who is a blackmailer and a drug addict.
01:38Another CCTV emerges in the Lohagarh murder case in Pune. Accused Chetan and Sia met at a cafe to allegedly
01:46plot Chetan's murder. Sia's parents speak out, says she never spoke about Chetan with them.
01:54Tara Tala tragedy rocks Kolkata. Debt toll rises to leaven after the Chet collapse incident. Five people arrested. Chief Minister
02:03Suvendu Adhikari orders a SIT probe and a citywide project audit.
02:11Rahul Gandhi apologizes for defaming Union Minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan's son, seeks relief in the case. Rahul in 2018 had
02:18linked Shivraj's son to Panama paper scam.
02:24Prime Minister Modi and the BJP mark 51 years of the emergency anniversary by calling it the darkest heat of
02:31independent India.
02:32NCRT introduces a section on emergency in a Class 9 textbook. Congress says several black chapters unveiled under Prime Minister
02:40Modi.
02:43And heavy rains cause landslides and flash floods in Arunachal Pradesh, unleashing devastation across the state.
02:50Many families forced to leave their homes and seek safer locations.
02:57Destruction and devastation in Venezuela after two strong earthquakes strike the country in just 40 seconds.
03:03Debt toll climbs to 164, nearly thousand injured as aftershocks continue.
03:22But the major development that's breaking this evening in the Ram Mandir donation theft or Chanda scam has been called.
03:30The Uttar Pradesh police have finally filed an FIR after an SIT preliminary report indicated irregularities.
03:36In this Chanda scam or donation scam, eight accused have been named.
03:41The complaint was filed by Ram Mandir Temple Trust.
03:44FIR has been registered under six sections of the BNS.
03:48Cash handlers Anup Kalp and Lavkus Mishra have been named.
03:52Champat Rai, the secretary of the Temple Trust.
03:55Its driver, Tinu Yadav, also named Subhash Karunesh, Avinash Shukla, Manish Yadav, Ram Shankar Mishra, among the other accused who
04:05have been taken as of now into custody.
04:08So clearly, the SIT has forced the government now to act.
04:12Eight people have been detained.
04:15Maria Shakil joins us with more.
04:17Maria, can you tell us just who these eight people are who have been detained?
04:21And what is their link to Champat Rai?
04:23Yes, so Rajdeep, I would say that the FIR has raised perhaps more questions than answers.
04:28Barring Tinu Yadav, who is a close aide of Champat Rai, who is the general secretary of the Ram Janambhumi
04:35Tirath Trust.
04:36Most of these people are largely unknown.
04:39These are cashiers, those who handle donations.
04:42But remember, Rajdeep, the SIT had highlighted a number of questions.
04:48They had spoken about systemic failure.
04:49They had said that the entire transportation of the donation was forged.
04:55There was a problem with that, that they had raised questions about dysfunctional CCTV cameras as well.
05:02So are we to believe that the upper management was not aware of any of the wrongdoings of all those
05:10eight people who have been named in this FIR?
05:12Remember, Tinu Yadav, the driver or a close aide of Champat Rai, was also responsible for the deposition of all
05:20these donations to the banks.
05:22He had access to those keys.
05:24So the question is, did Champat Rai not know that his close aide was indulging in embezzlement while he was
05:33running the trust?
05:34So these questions remain unanswered.
05:37And also, Rajdeep, is this only one FIR or will there be other people who will be named in the
05:43subsequent FIR?
05:44So a lot of questions unanswered is what I'll say after looking at this list, which is largely of people
05:50who are unknown cashiers or those staffs who used to work under the larger administration or the senior management.
06:00Okay, Maria Shakir, joining us with those details, thanks very much for joining us at the top of the news
06:05with that big story.
06:06The Ram Mandir in Ayodhya, remember, is not just a place of worship.
06:10It is one of the most significant religious and political symbols of this BJP political age.
06:16Now, allegations surrounding the handling of donations, offerings at the temple, triggering off that major controversy, prompting a government-ordered
06:23SIT probe.
06:24And today, an FIR being filed against close aides of General Secretary of the Mandir Trust, Champat Rai.
06:31As Maria raised the question, just how far does the rot go?
06:35Take a look at what we know so far.
06:47The shroud of secrecy over the donations made to the Ram Mandir in Ayodhya remains with the Mandir Trust now
06:53refusing to comply with the PMO's directive seeking complete public disclosure of its finances.
07:00From donations and bank accounts to land transactions and assets.
07:10The man who blew the whistle to the PMO, BJP worker Rajneesh Singh, says that all he wants is a
07:15fair and transparent investigation because the issue concerns the faith of close of devotees.
07:34The trust has refused to divulge the information, citing the ongoing SIT investigation set up by the Yogi government.
07:42But a day after the three-member special investigation team submitted its interim report, it seems that the probe has
07:48soon widened beyond just allegations of missing cash.
07:53The probe has reportedly found that employees handling cash donations were not subjected to adequate background verification.
08:00It also points to poor enforcement of dress code protocols meant to help identify authorized personnel inside sensitive areas.
08:09Investigators further claim that in some instances, employees deliberately positioned themselves in front of the CCTV cameras, potentially obstructing surveillance
08:18and enabling theft to go unnoticed.
08:21The SITs also flagged negligence in the transportation of donation boxes from collection points, as well as serious lapses in
08:28procedures governing the movement of cash until its final deposit in bank accounts.
08:34Meanwhile, the controversy expanded beyond donations.
08:38Appearing before the panel, Aam Aatmi Party MP Sanjay Singh alleged that land purchase using devotees' money was acquired at
08:45inflated prices and demanded that the SITs mandate be expanded to include these land deals.
08:53The SITs mandate is provided by the SITs mandate by the SITs mandate by the SITs mandate by the SITs
09:14mandate.
09:31With Singh's party leader Aravind Kejewal demanding a CBI or ED probe ahead of his Ayodhya visit, the issue is
09:38becoming a political headache for the ruling state government.
10:05And what is adding to pressure on the Yogi government is that even the VHP has now entered
10:10a debate.
10:28Facing the heat, the Yogi government has reiterated that nobody guilty of cheating Hindus of their
10:33faith will be spared.
10:56What began as allegations of irregularities in the handling of donations and offerings
11:01of the Ram Mandir has now snowballed into one of the biggest contributions of the
11:04overseas surrounding Ayodhya since the temple's consecration.
11:08Pira Report, India Today.
11:15Who looted in the name of Lord Ram?
11:18How deep is the rot inside the Ram Mandir Trust?
11:21Is this a scam beyond just a cash and land grab?
11:25Will devotees be compensated for being cheated?
11:28Fraud in the name of faith?
11:30Is this an acid test for the Yogi government in Uttar Pradesh?
11:35Just some of the questions I'll raise.
11:37Joining me now, senior journalist, Sharad Pradhan, who's tracked Uttar Pradesh politics for years.
11:42Shantanu Gupta, political analyst and author, has written a biography on Yogi Arityanath.
11:47Shri Raj Nair, VHP spokesperson, is also joining me.
11:51And I want to turn to you, Shri Raj Nair, today, because as we speak, eight people reportedly
11:55named in that affair.
11:57Two of them, at least we know, have been held for sure.
11:59We also know that among the names is the driver of Champat Rai, the general secretary of the trust.
12:06Clearly, all of this doesn't tell us yet just how deep the scam is.
12:12Do you concede now that there were large-scale theft of donations?
12:18And to that extent, this is a major blot on the credibility of the Ram Janma Bhoomi Trust.
12:28Well, Raji, from the day one, it was on the insistence of the trust, an SIT was formed.
12:34And we have seen the interim report being submitted to the authorities.
12:39And we have been firm on our stand that whoever is found to be guilty, whoever has done, whoever
12:47has been indulged in wrongdoings and misappropriation of funds or siphoning of funds, they should
12:54be punished and a fire should be lost against them.
12:59We have never tried to shield anybody.
13:01We never tried to support any person who is supposed to be wrong.
13:06We are absolutely clear.
13:08You showed our international president also saying on air, we wanted punishment to all
13:17those who will be found to be guilty after the final report of the SIT will be submitted.
13:25We want an example to be said.
13:26But there are those who say, no, no, Mr. Nair, Mr. Nair, you're saying that, you're
13:31saying, you're saying the BHP took the initiative for an SIT to be formed.
13:35The truth of the matter is, it was Akhilesh Yadav of the Samajwadi Party who red flagged this
13:40first.
13:41It was Akhilesh Yadav who red flagged it.
13:43And then you woke up to it.
13:44Initially, there were denials.
13:46The truth of the matter is, it is only when you are, when the hand has been caught in the
13:50till where you have nowhere to run.
13:52Now you're saying, dood ka dood paani ka paani, the guilty won't be spared.
13:55And will the guilty include if they are representatives of your organization, most of whom are holding
14:02senior positions in the trust?
14:08Well, Rajdeep, we have been very clear.
14:10However, a person big, irrespective of the position he holds, if found guilty, heads will
14:19roll.
14:19We are very, very clear about that.
14:22We have never tried to shield anybody.
14:24And we have been very categorical.
14:25We have been always saying all statutory obligations, all compliances should be met.
14:32The entire system should be transparent.
14:36Every rupee which has been received as daan, dakshina, donation should go only to the bank.
14:40But you woke up only after Akhilesh Yadav raised the red flag.
14:44We have been very clear.
14:45You only woke up after Akhilesh Yadav, the opposition Samajwadi Party leader, raised the red flag.
14:54No, see, we do agree that after the interim report, we do agree there have been some kind
14:59of wrongdoings.
15:00And we will not shield anybody who is wrong, irrespective of who or he may be, irrespective
15:07of the position one holds.
15:09We will ensure that a transparent system will be in place.
15:12More transparency will be brought.
15:15Definitely, there are some lapses which are seen as per the reports are concerned, but
15:21everything will be cleared.
15:24But this kind of people who are trying to politicize this matter, looking into the 2028 UP elections,
15:31they are going to fall flat.
15:33In fact, none of, no Hindus are going to vote them.
15:36They are Ramadrois.
15:37They always ensured, they worked day in and out to ensure that the Ram temple does not
15:42come in existence.
15:44The Congress which ensured they roped in the best of the lawyers so that the Ram temple
15:48does not come in existence.
15:50A party which has always been in scams.
15:52They are trying to, you know, to portray Ram Janma Bhumi in a wrong, wrong manner.
15:59But at the same time, we make it very clear.
16:03After the reports, whoever is going to be guilty, they should be punished.
16:07And F.I.R. has to be, F.I.R. has to be lodged against all who are supposed to
16:13be guilty.
16:14I have heard you, sir.
16:15You will spare no one who is found guilty in that inquiry.
16:18Sharad Pradhan, do you believe, therefore, the VHP is saying, look, an SIT report has
16:24given its findings, arrests are beginning, F.I.R. has been filed, people have been detained.
16:28What more do you want?
16:29Is this issue, as Srirad Nayar suggests, been politicized because it's a big election here
16:34in Uttar Pradesh?
16:36Politicized by whom is a big question.
16:38And, you know, before Aklesh Yadav raised the red flag, this was exposed by a YouTuber
16:45named Abhishek Upadhyay, who runs his own channel.
16:49And he interviewed one of the former accountants of the Mandel Trust, who is an RSS man and
16:56who hails from Kota.
16:57And the day he raised the red flag, he was removed from that job.
17:02He used to supervise the county.
17:03And the Maipal Singh is his name.
17:05And he is the man to be credited with.
17:08After that, Aklesh Adam got the cue and he raised the issue.
17:12But the irony is that from day one, even Yogi Aditnaath and others were trying to give
17:19it a different color.
17:20Yogi Aditnaath, instead of saying that we'll, today he's saying, doot ka doot paani ka paani
17:24ho jaega, that time he said, opposition is trying to blame Ayodhya.
17:30If a theory, a theory, I would call it dacoity.
17:33The manner in which this whole thing was carried out was dacoity.
17:37And I refuse to believe that people sitting at the highest levels were unaware of this.
17:43There was enough reason, even it was also very surprising that somebody like Mr. Nipal
17:48Mishra, whom I know, I've known for more than four decades, and he's always rated as a very
17:53upright officer in India.
17:55He used to be Mulaim Singh's principal secretary.
17:58And thereafter, he went to the prime minister and held the highest bureaucratic position in
18:02the country.
18:03He tried to wash his hands off on day one when he was asked.
18:07He said, you see, I have nothing to do with this trust.
18:10I was only supervising the construction.
18:14Somebody at that level talking in these terms simply shows that he's trying to wash his
18:18hands off.
18:19Only when the matter, when the issue became viral, then he said, okay, no, no, we'll do
18:27this and we'll do that.
18:28He changed his stance.
18:30Probably he could be, it could be because of conflict of interest.
18:33You're saying therefore, you're saying therefore that the system woke up.
18:39Yes.
18:39And one more thing, Rajiv.
18:40Go ahead.
18:41To this, what has happened?
18:45SIT is not a solution for this kind of crime.
18:49Invariably, I have seen in my almost five decades of journalism that whenever SITs are
18:55formed or there are one man retired judges commissions, they are only meant to buy time.
19:04And they don't, even in this, the report that has come, the real culprits have been shielded.
19:10I said on day one that you will find when the society submits its report, only the smaller
19:16fries will be hanged.
19:17The big fish continues to rule the roost.
19:20And the big fish are people against whom commoners in today, the ordinary devotees are all talking
19:30about it and they are pointing their fingers towards the man who is supposed to be protecting
19:37the man who is using this whole thing.
19:39If somebody's driver is being taken to task now at long last, you think the owner of the
19:50driver's employer could be unaware of what is happening, blissfully unaware.
19:54You're referring to Champat Rai, you're referring to Champat Rai, you're referring to the general
19:58secretary who's a senior VHP leader.
20:01You're saying none of this could have happened without his knowledge, given the fact that
20:05he was the whole and soul in a way of this Ram Janmubavi trust.
20:08Am I correct?
20:09You're saying that the bigger fish are getting away.
20:13And another thing, the other associates of Champat Rai, Anil Mishra and Gopal Rao, they were
20:20neck deep in this whole thing.
20:22They knew obviously what is happening and they are the ones, mind you, who were involved in
20:27the land scam, what Sanjay Singh was mentioning just now, how land was purchased in the morning
20:34and later in the evening it was sold at 10 times, 20 times the price to the trust.
20:39That is also a victory.
20:42After all, the money was being paid out of Ram, Bhagwan Ram's trust.
20:48Yes, from day one, there was complete, the government was in complete denial mode, refusing
20:53to even accept that there's anything wrong.
20:57It is thankfully because it's all happened.
20:59Let me, Sharath, let, I've heard what you've said.
21:04I want to bring in Shantanu Gupta.
21:06Shantanu Gupta, do you believe this is a huge embarrassment for the youth?
21:09Yogi Adityanath government and the Sangh Paribar in general.
21:12Here is a case where faith of millions is associated.
21:16This is the big ideological project of the last 10 years.
21:19And what do we find?
21:21That there is chandachori.
21:23Or at least the allegations are serious enough for eight people now to be detained, including
21:28people close to the general secretary of the trust.
21:31Isn't this a huge embarrassment?
21:33Sir, this is not a project of last 10 years.
21:36This is a project of last 500 years for Hindum, you rightly said.
21:39And I will avoid the temptation of sensationalizing the topic.
21:44It's a very sensitive topic.
21:46And I'll only speak of the fact that we know.
21:49If you have some sources, which I don't have, none of us has access to the SIT report.
21:54No, we know eight people have been detained, including the driver and close aide of Chamathra.
21:59We don't have access to the SIT report, I said.
22:01We don't have the access to it.
22:03What we know is the following.
22:04And based on that, people will make their view.
22:07We know that there are a couple of whistleblowers who, as Sharadji said, some reporter, someone
22:12from even BJP, Rajneesh Singh, some Pawan Pandey from SP, some accountant.
22:16There were some whistleblowers.
22:17Based on that, Achillesh Tadu tweeted.
22:19When the trust realized that it should be investigated, they only wrote a letter to chief minister to
22:25form SIT.
22:26Within four hours, government of UP, Yogi government formed SIT with very senior members.
22:31One IS officer of 2004 batch, Vijay Vishwaspant, one IPS officer of 2008 batch, who was also
22:37Interpol and a CBI, Kiran, and one more person from the finance department.
22:41These three people worked hard for 60 hours almost, continuously interviewed more than
22:46100 people, and this summited the report to the home secretary, right?
22:49So only the four or five people are private to this SIT.
22:53And based on that, these eight people are fired.
22:55I'm sure within some time, they'll be arrested the way Yogi Atanath government worked in nine
22:59and a half years, right?
23:00This is the only limited facts we know.
23:02Based on that, we can derive…
23:05So you're saying there's no question of an eye wash.
23:07You've got Sharath Pradhan saying SITs and these commissions which work under the government
23:11are designed in a way to ensure only the minions are caught, the big fish get away.
23:16No, no.
23:17That might be Sharathji's view.
23:18But again, I think there's one more detail that we know that the SIT, these three people
23:24SIT have asked for larger time also because now they want to find the trails of each of
23:29this.
23:29It's not as if CCTV is closed, when it is closed, on whose protocol it's closed.
23:33If the close protocol is dropped, under whose order it is dropped.
23:36So they will study in detail and find the trails of all these people, right?
23:39It's not easy to find in a jiffy, you can't find the trails.
23:43They'll find 15 more days, right?
23:44So a larger report and then more names may come.
23:47And as VHP or everyone's head, from Chief Minister to VHP, everyone's head, the hardest
23:52action will be taken.
23:53And that we have seen in Yogi Atanath government, the hardest action is taken, was taken, will
23:57be taken, that I think the people of Uttar Pradesh are very sure.
24:01Let me point out Rajdeep.
24:03You heard Shantanu saying, Yogi Atanath government will not spare anyone.
24:08Are we sensationalizing it even before the action is fully taken?
24:13No, no, there is reason too.
24:14It is not sensationalizing at all.
24:16It is coming, the facts.
24:18You know, in every crime, there is some prime of psi evidence.
24:22In this case, there was more than enough prime of psi evidence.
24:26The Prevention of Corruption Act clearly says that if somebody accused of a critical
24:32crime, his disproportionate assets are clearly visible, far beyond his legitimate means of
24:38income, that calls for a criminal investigation.
24:42SIT is not an answer.
24:45FIR should have been lodged on day one when this was detected.
24:49And there were enough.
24:49The moment SIT was formed, it was very evident that certain people were to be shielded.
24:57Otherwise, you know, prime of psi evidence against whether it was Tunnu Yada or whether
25:02it was Anil Mishra or whether Champatra himself, the kind of property they own today is way beyond
25:11their legitimate sources of income.
25:12You know, you're making a point because there's the donation theft and there are allegations
25:16of serious monies being made in allegedly illegal land deals.
25:21I just want to get in view, just Shantanu, for a moment.
25:25Chanda Chori, these are the responses we are getting on Twitter live.
25:29Will accountability be fixed for those who cheated devotees, says Shiva.
25:34SSR 99 said, we heard of Ram Ram Japna, Paraya Mal Apna.
25:40But these people have taken it to the next level.
25:42Ram Nam Japna or Ram Mandir Ka Chanda Apna.
25:45Incredible.
25:46Shiva Prasad writes, sir, this is the nation of upper caste temple control.
25:49Nothing will happen.
25:51Write it down.
25:52Nagarajan says, accountability.
25:53If the prime minister can take credit for building the Bhavya Mandir, he must also accept
25:58responsibility for the misuse of devotees' contributions.
26:01When it comes to accountability, is Sanatan sentiment not hurt now?
26:06Rajneer Rao says, expecting accountability in money mismanagement is a pipe dream.
26:10It is cash, no trail.
26:11A few employees will be sacked for wrong accounting.
26:14Some vague CCTV images will be highlighted.
26:17Investigation will continue for 10 years.
26:19The big fish will get away, having swallowed heavily.
26:22Shantanu, you wanted to respond.
26:24A lot of cynicism, skepticism.
26:26People are angry and legitimately so.
26:29I think, yeah, these are the moments of anger.
26:31The people who have donated even 5 rupees to 5,000 rupees, they will feel cheated for sure.
26:36But I reiterate the same point.
26:37We have seen in the last nine and a half year of Yogi government, no one was spared and no
26:42one will be spared.
26:43I think I'll connect to the land scam thing and I'll point to how the things are sensationalized.
26:49Sanjay Singh, did the Sanjay Singh and Pawan Pandit together, did a press conference in Ayodhya about this land scam
26:54in 2021, 5 years back.
26:57They never went to the court.
26:59Let's say Yogi's SIT is not functioning.
27:02Yogi's police is not functioning.
27:03They have all the right, all the means, all the lawyers.
27:06They can send Kapil Sibbal, who is a dad sabaya, with their support.
27:09Samajwadi Party can always send.
27:10They never went to the high court.
27:11They have all the incentives.
27:13They have all the political incentive to take the land scam.
27:16The same paper, the same paper which he produced today in front of SRT, Sanjay Singh shown the same papers
27:225 years back.
27:23But he never went to the court.
27:24So, that's why I'm saying how things are sensationalized.
27:26I'm saying, he's thinking any paper that things are happening, let me coin the land scam thing again.
27:32So, we have seen.
27:33Nothing stops.
27:35You know, it is not as if the matter has to go to court, Shantanu with due regard.
27:38The Yogi government, if it wanted, could have investigated the land deals as well.
27:43It's not as if this was hidden from the public domain.
27:45The point is, you're now saying, yesterday I heard a BJP leader saying, in Mohan Yadav's case, show me the
27:50money trail.
27:51Now, you're saying someone has to go to court.
27:53The truth of the matter is, people want answers.
27:56And therefore, I'll come to you, Mr. Nayar, at the end.
28:00You see, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad in particular will have to answer serious questions.
28:04They cannot get away simply by saying, you know, we will shield no one.
28:08That's not enough.
28:08Look at the skepticism that people have.
28:11You all came to power.
28:13BJP came to power, na khaunga, na khaane dunga.
28:16And now, in the Ram Mandir itself, people ne khaana kha liya.
28:24Well, Rajdeep, this is absolutely whatever is happening, I categorically said, our international
28:30president said, the guilty will be definitely punished irrespective of who, whatever position
28:37one holds.
28:38But at the same time, like Shantanu said, in the year 2021, this kind of hit and run,
28:44spit and run has happened.
28:45And then these people disappeared once the election results were out and open.
28:49I hold Mr. Sharath Prabhar in high esteem.
28:52But I'm really worried he is absolutely selective.
28:55This is all election centering.
28:57At the same time, nobody, whatever has happened.
29:03Mr. Sharath Pradhan, Mr. Sharath Pradhan, Mr. Sharath Pradhan, I don't know, you heard
29:10power.
29:11I never said power.
29:12You can go back.
29:12You said power.
29:13Mr. Sharath Pradhan, we hold you in high esteem.
29:16But Pradhan, Pradhan, we all hold you in high esteem.
29:21But you are absolutely selective.
29:24Nobody is trying to shield.
29:25Nobody is trying to cover up.
29:27Let us all.
29:28We are the world's largest democracy and our judicial process is known across the world.
29:33If the trail leads to Champa Tray, will he have to step down?
29:36Mr. Shilal Nayar, if the trail leads to Champa Tray, will he have to step down or not?
29:43Okay.
29:44It may be anybody.
29:46Famous last word.
29:47If we are irrespective of the position, one holds, he will, he have to, the heads will
29:53be rolled.
29:55Okay.
29:56Famous last words.
29:57I've got that.
29:58And I appreciate my guest.
29:59Nobody is trying to shield anybody.
30:00I appreciate all of you joining me on my top talking point.
30:04Okay.
30:04You've made that point.
30:05No one is trying to shield anyone, you claim.
30:07Clearly, though, this is a huge breach of trust of the millions of devotees who have donated
30:12with all full faith to the Ram Mandir.
30:15Thanks very much to my guests for joining us.
30:17I want to bring you some breaking news that you're seeing flashing on your screens.
30:21The West Bengal Chief Minister, Shubhendu Adhikari, has decided to table a bill for the implementation
30:26of uniformed civil code in the Bengal Assembly next week.
30:29Sources say the bill will be tabled for discussion.
30:36West Bengal now to pass the uniformed civil code bill.
30:39Indujeet Kundu joins us.
30:41Indujeet, in other states we've seen this goes through a process.
30:44Uttarakhand, Gujarat.
30:45Is West Bengal planning to do it on day one itself without a proper discussion and debate?
30:52What we are hearing from sources is that the bill will be tabled on Monday, likely to be
30:57tabled on Monday, that is 29th of June.
31:00And sources within the government tell me that it would be placed before the Assembly and
31:06a discussion will take place on that very day and the bill is likely to be passed.
31:10That is the plan as far as the ruling party, ruling dispensation here under Shubhendu Adhikari.
31:17So a very, very crucial West Bengal in that sense would be only few states after Uttarakhand
31:24and neighboring Assam which will be placing the uniformed civil court for, you know,
31:30placing a bill for implementation of UCC or the uniformed civil court in the state.
31:36And the government sources are telling us that they are hopeful that they will be able
31:40to pass it on that very day itself.
31:44Okay, Indujit Kundu joining us with that piece of breaking news.
31:48Let's turn from there to our other big talking point tonight.
31:51Who is an Indian citizen or dare I say what makes an Indian citizen an Indian citizen?
31:57Now that sounds like a simple question but in India nothing is ever simple.
32:01A recent clarification by the Ministry of External Affairs that the passport that you have
32:06is only a travel document has reignited a debate over citizenship.
32:11So if a passport isn't enough then what exactly proves that you are an Indian citizen?
32:17And should a country of 1.4 billion people rely on a combination of documents and rules
32:23that keep changing?
32:24Or should we have a single unified proof of citizenship?
32:27A citizenship card.
32:29Take a look at our other big story.
32:58Let's break it down.
33:00According to the Ministry of External Affairs, a passport is primarily a travel document.
33:06It establishes a nationality for international travel but it is not conclusive proof of Indian
33:11citizenship.
33:12The government also says that while passports are ordinarily issued only to Indian citizens,
33:18the law contains limited provisions that allow passports to be issued to certain non-citizens
33:23in public interest.
33:24That, the centre says, is why a passport alone cannot legally settle the question of citizenship.
33:31And it's not just passports.
33:33The law also distinguishes between identity documents and citizenship documents.
33:38An Aadhaar card proves identity.
33:40A PAN card is meant for taxation.
33:42And a voter ID establishes that a person is enrolled as an elector.
33:48But according to the legal position, none of these documents, by themselves, conclusively
33:53prove Indian citizenship.
33:55So then what does?
33:56India currently has no single universal citizenship document.
34:01Instead, citizenship is established through a combination of official records, such as birth certificates and records, domicile certificates,
34:10PAN cards and voter IDs, school and college certificates carrying birth and parental details,
34:16government service records, and citizenship registration certificates issued by the Home
34:20Ministry, which can also be relied upon.
34:22Courts and criminals may examine other official records as well, including bank, post office,
34:28and LIC documents showing residence in India, citizenship registration certificates and other
34:33documents accepted by courts and tribunals.
34:37In short, under the Citizenship Act of 1955, citizenship is determined by the totality of documents
34:44and not by one document alone.
34:46But then should that be the case?
34:48Should it be a simpler case of one country, one citizenship document, whatever it is?
34:54As of now, India's citizenship is decided not just by a combination of documents, but a combination of rules.
35:00If you were born in India before July 1st, 1987, birth in India is generally sufficient.
35:06But if you were born after July 1st, 1987, at least one parent must have been an Indian citizen.
35:12And for those born after December 3rd, 2004, the law is stricter.
35:16However, both parents must be Indian citizens or one parent must be an Indian citizen while
35:21the other is not an illegal immigrant.
35:24So the answer to who exactly is an Indian citizen is complex and not decided by just one document
35:30such as the passport.
35:32Should India look at perhaps simplifying the citizenship question to a master document
35:36or keep the answer as composite and pluralistic as the very soul of India itself?
35:43Bureau Report, India Today
35:46Okay, joining us now on that question of what should then constitute citizenship
35:51or what document should really constitute citizenship,
35:54Dr. S.Y. Qureshi, former Chief Election Commissioner with us,
35:57Dushan Dave, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court, also with us.
36:01I want to come to you, Mr. Dave, because the government says, look, nothing new in this.
36:04There's been a High Court ruling earlier also in 2013 that the passport is a travel document.
36:09Is this being sensationalized when the government or the MEA issues a one-line statement saying,
36:13look, it's only a travel document.
36:15We don't in this country in any case have anything like a citizenship card, like a green card that might
36:20be in the United States.
36:21So, are we sensationalizing it in some way by saying, what is a citizenship card?
36:27Why is a passport not a citizenship card?
36:30Well, yes and no.
36:32The answer is very complex.
36:35See, there is no doubt about the fact that citizenship is decided under the Citizenship Act of 1955.
36:43But the Passport Act also, you know, has a provision which is very important, which says that a passport can
36:50be denied only if you are not a citizen of India.
36:54Now, that presupposes that you have to be a citizen of India to get a passport.
37:00Now, once passport is issued and that has to be issued by the passport officer after holding an inquiry, which
37:07is a statutory inquiry as provided by Parliament.
37:10Now, once he holds an inquiry and comes to a conclusion that no, the applicant is a citizen of India
37:16and therefore is entitled to be issued a passport.
37:18That's the end of the matter.
37:20So, undisputably, passport is one of the many proofs of citizenship that is available to us.
37:28You know, we have made things extremely complicated because, I mean, for Government of India today, 145 crore people actually
37:36don't exist unless they prove themselves that they are citizens of India.
37:39So, you know, I don't know what they are trying to do.
37:43It's very difficult.
37:44So, is that the problem, if I may intervene, is that the problem that you are shifting the burden of
37:48proof to the citizen?
37:50Undoubtedly, it is the problem.
37:52I'll tell you something very shocking.
37:54The other day in Delhi, you know, some people came for part of this SIR exercise from the Election Commission.
38:01And he asked me that, sir, show me your voting card of 2004 election.
38:07So, I said, I have my birth certificate.
38:10I have my Aadhar card.
38:12I have my Russian card.
38:13Not Russian card.
38:14I have my house, this thing, electricity card.
38:17I have my passport.
38:18What more do we need?
38:20No, I have even Election Commission card, I said.
38:23He said, no.
38:242004, you voted.
38:25You show me that card.
38:26Then I will record your name.
38:28Now, they are really making this exercise into a completely, you know, frivolous and bogus exercise.
38:34If people like us are going to ask a question like this, what about a common man who really can't
38:40defend himself?
38:41So, you know, things are becoming very, you know, very, very difficult.
38:45Why government of India is choosing to do this is for government to answer.
38:49But definitely, there is no doubt about the fact that, as your, you know, commentary just showed, that under Citizenship
38:55Act, those who were born before 87 in India are automatic citizens, shall be citizens.
39:01Those who are born after 87.
39:03Based on birth certificate.
39:03Yeah, I mean, your born is born.
39:07That's good enough birth certificate.
39:09After 87, both parents or after 2004, one of the parents should be an Indian.
39:14Now, this kind of a proof in the Citizenship Act is more than enough.
39:19What more do we need to prove ourselves that we are Indian citizens like this?
39:23I don't understand.
39:24Okay.
39:24And passport is part of that exercise which Indian has to undergo.
39:29So, I mean, there is no reason why government should have issued this clarification, frankly.
39:35Can I get in S.Y. Qureshi?
39:37Because S.Y. Qureshi, we saw during the recent SIR exercise, there was a whole debate whether Aadhaar can constitute
39:43citizenship.
39:43And eventually, it was said, no, Aadhaar cannot.
39:46As Dushan Dhabi says, even today, my voter ID card, as of today, does not necessarily put me on the
39:52new electoral rolls under SIR because I have to show that I voted in 2004.
39:58So, now we are told passport is not a proof of citizenship.
40:04It's a travel document reinforcing what the courts have ruled.
40:07All of this, is it leading to the need to create a common citizenship card?
40:13That we need a citizenship card as different countries have?
40:16Or have we just created a pig's nest in a way with all these complicated documents that are required?
40:24Well, Radeep, first of all, what surprises me is what was the provocation for the MEA to come out with
40:30this clarification, Suomoto, which has created all the commotion.
40:34But leaving that aside, Citizenship Act already since 1955 and amended in 2003.
40:452003 Act, particularly Section 14A was added and it says that it is compulsory for the Government of India to
40:54register people as citizens and they should have an NRC.
40:57And I have no quarrel with that.
40:59I think it's a good idea.
41:00We must have a citizenship register as all of our neighbours, all of our six neighbours in the SAAC region
41:06all around us have that.
41:09The entire Europe has.
41:10No, so should we have a citizenship card?
41:12No, no, one minute.
41:12One minute.
41:13Are you saying we should have a citizenship card?
41:14Because then what happens to my Aadhaar card?
41:16What happens to the other documentation?
41:18When Aadhaar was brought in, people were worried that would your ration for a poor person be dependent on whether
41:24you have an Aadhaar card?
41:25So, are we saying we want just one card across this country?
41:28Is that what you are calling for?
41:30Yes, that is what I am saying.
41:32But let me make it very clear that there are three issues involved which are getting mixed up.
41:36Identity, residence and citizenship.
41:39Now, Aadhaar from the very beginning made it very clear that this is not a citizenship proof.
41:44It is only a proof of residence and identity and it is written on the Aadhaar itself.
41:49So, therefore, there is no ambiguity.
41:51In fact, something which came very close to identifying your citizenship was the voter card, which 99% people had.
41:59And I don't even care about the passport, you know, this clarification which has come, but because only six and
42:07a half percent of Indians have a passport.
42:09But which means the problem is much bigger than the passport holders, the 99% people whose citizenship was clear
42:18from the voter identity card, because that can only be given to a citizen, unlike Aadhaar.
42:23And that was invalidated.
42:25That was the basic industry that was done and which we are suffering from.
42:29Now that I stand in support of NRC, that we should do it, but without causing the harassment which SIR
42:38had done.
42:39And I have a simple solution.
42:41You know, from 1962, registration of births has been compulsory.
42:45Of course, every state did not implement it immediately, but at least 60-65% of Indians have a birth
42:54certificate.
42:54So, give them their citizenship card immediately.
42:59That means about 80-90 crores will get it without first in the next six months and split the problem
43:05into two.
43:06The older people like you and me who may not have even birth or any other document, but do it
43:15leisurely.
43:15After all, we have managed, the republic has survived without that certificate so far.
43:21So, do it leisurely without harassing people and let them give us time to find, dig out those documents and
43:29show the elders can be registered in due course.
43:32I take your point.
43:34Okay, I take your point.
43:36Dushan, that way, a final word.
43:38Do you believe, therefore, a common citizenship card is what is the answer to this complicated system that has been
43:43created in this country?
43:44Or will that create further problems?
43:47No, I don't think, you know, the national card is really the solution.
43:51I mean, if government intends to do it, they brought the law in 2014 and we are in 2026.
43:57Government has not been able to, you know, do that so far.
44:00But I am shocked that at every stage when citizens get some certificate from the government, it is given by
44:08under statutory powers by officers after holding an inquiry, including another card, Russian card.
44:14Every card, you know, is given after an inquiry.
44:16Like that passport is also given after a detailed inquiry.
44:19It's a, you know, police comes and verifies.
44:22Everything is taking place.
44:23And if somebody has fraudulently obtained a passport, government has a right to revoke that passport under the Passports Act.
44:29Therefore, you know, it is, these are cumulative pieces of evidence which really show that we, you and I, are
44:37citizens of this country.
44:39So, for government to say that it is not a proof, that is, I think, completely wrong.
44:44Because under the Evidence Act also, these documents which are given by the government are, you know, evidence and are
44:51admissible in a court of law.
44:53Therefore, you can't simply issue a notification like this.
44:57I think that government is really going on a wrong path and is trying to only put some more strain
45:03on the citizens, unnecessarily create some kind of a, you know, scare amongst the people.
45:09Okay.
45:09To find few Bangladeshis, they are doing it, not realizing that more than 1 million Indians are living illegally in
45:16United States and other countries.
45:17So, you know, you can't treat 145 crore people to find these few Bangladeshis that you want to do.
45:24I think the whole exercise is a fraud on the constitution and on fraud on the people.
45:28Because constitution says under article 11 that parliament will frame the law to decide citizenship.
45:35It framed the law and it says if I am born in India, I am an Indian citizen.
45:39That's good enough.
45:40Nothing more is required.
45:41Okay.
45:43I'm going to leave it there.
45:44I appreciate both of you joining me and clarifying the position on that.
45:48Thank you both very much for joining me on the news today.
45:51Let's turn from there to our other story, that chilling story that's come in from Pune, the Pune murder.
45:57Now a CCTV trail, a secret cafe meeting and what police describe as silent signals before a fatal fall.
46:05The Ketan Agarwal murder case, investigators claim the conspiracy was hatched a day before the crime by his fiancée and
46:13her boyfriend, with fresh footage forming the backbone of their case.
46:18Take a look at the story.
46:22A cafe, two lovers and 55 minutes.
46:30And according to investigators, a ghastly murder plot that would end in a deep gorge at Pune's Lohagarh fort.
46:39India today has accessed chilling details from the police investigation, including CCTV footage that investigators believe captures the conspiracy before
46:50the crime.
46:53June 17th, one day before Ketan Agarwal was killed.
46:57At 4.35pm, Sia Gowell and Chetan Chaudhary walk into a cafe in Pune.
47:03They leave only at 5.30pm.
47:07Police believe that in those 55 minutes, the fate of Ketan Agarwal was sealed.
47:18The whole theory, the whole plan of murder was cooked here.
47:21They planned everything, they met each other.
47:23They were here for almost an hour.
47:25They were talking to each other and CCTV footage clearly reveals that they were here for more than an hour.
47:30They were planning a murder and that's how on 18th, on 18th of morning, Sia left from her place.
47:36She picked up Ketan Agarwal and they went to Lohagarh and then she pushed him from the cliff.
47:43The police claim the conspiracy began not at the fort, but inside the Pune cafe.
47:48A day before Ketan Agarwal's murder, Sia Gowell and Chetan Chaudhary allegedly met and plotted the crime.
47:55Investigators say the duo zeroed in on Lohagarh fort, just 70 kilometres away, after studying YouTube videos.
48:02While Sia had already conducted a recce of the location on the 31st of May.
48:07According to the probe, the plan was executed on the 18th of June, when Sia and Chetan allegedly murdered Ketan
48:13at Lohagarh fort.
48:16Investigators say Chetan secretly followed Sia and Ketan to the fort and CCTV footage even places him at the scene.
48:24Wearing a cap and a hoodie in the summer heat while carefully avoiding the cameras.
48:30Police also claim the footage captured silent hand signals between Sia and Chetan.
48:36Investigators believe those gestures were the final cue.
48:39Moments before Ketan was allegedly pushed into the gorge.
48:44When we did a detailed investigation, the accused had to be properly murdered in the investigation.
48:55The accused's second number, Chetan Chaudhary, was trying to hide their identity.
49:01They were giving one another, the girl and the girl, when to stop, when to go.
49:13But Chetan Chaudhary's family is rejecting the police findings, with his father claiming that his son has been falsely implicated.
49:42A cafe meeting, a digital trail, silent signals and two completely different versions of what happened on the hilltop.
49:51With both accused now in police custody, the truth behind Ketan Agarwal's death will be tested in court.
49:59With Omkar Wable, your report, India Today.
50:05That shocker from Pune that we've been tracking.
50:07Let's turn to tonight's Get Real India story.
50:10The Lucknow fire earlier this week has triggered a statewide crackdown on unsafe coaching centres.
50:15But in Kanpur, a building sealed for alleged violations was unsealed within a day, sparking serious questions over just how
50:22VVIP influence operates.
50:25Simar Chawla with tonight's Get Real India report.
50:3215 young lives were lost in the Lucknow Coaching Centre fire.
50:38A statewide crackdown followed and the promise that followed was loud.
50:43No mercy for buildings that put lives at risk.
50:46In Kanpur, officials sealed an illegal coaching centre basement.
50:50But within 24 hours, the seal was gone.
50:52The building allegedly belongs to the Uttar Pradesh Assembly Speaker's brother, raising uncomfortable questions over the U-turn.
50:59When India Today returned to the site, the picture had changed completely.
51:04The seal had disappeared.
51:06This paint is fresh and it was done on the words that was written by the Kanpur Development Authority which
51:14clearly said that this building is sealed and the entry is prohibited.
51:19But now, by some unknown people, don't know whether it is the private people or the people of the authority.
51:24The paint has been done on this and that particular message has been removed.
51:28Now, if you'll see in the visuals, this is the particular gate of the entry.
51:33As per the rules, there has to be an emergency exit also.
51:36The passage has to be wider than this.
51:40Now, you'll have a look.
51:41Now, this is the seal of Kanpur Development Authority which was placed just yesterday.
51:45But only after a few hours, it has been tore apart by the people itself.
51:51Then came another twist.
51:52The Kanpur Development Authority denied ever sealing the premises.
51:56Its official stand, only a notice had been issued.
52:23The opposition alleges political pressure forced the administration to retreat.
52:51Lucknow was meant to be the warning.
52:53but it seems safety will always be second to safarish in India when it comes to dealing with
52:58VIPs. With Sima Chawla and Kanpur, Bureau Report, India Today.
53:06Okay, from that story, let's turn to some good news. From apples and kiwis to saffron and
53:11medicinal herbs, one man in Kashmir is turning his rooftop into a thriving organic farm.
53:17Meet Haroon Rashid from Shopia, whose innovative terrace farming model is drawing attention.
53:23Take a look.
53:32An organic farm on terrace cultivating many varieties of fruits, vegetables and medicinal plants.
53:46Haroon Rashid's innovations in farming has made him popular in Shopia.
53:50Rashid, who started terrace farming in 2017, has transformed his rooftop into a flourishing agricultural space
53:58using chemical-free and environmentally sustainable practices.
54:03Haroon Rashid, which is our terrace garden, is a footy into 42 square footers.
54:10But we have planted this fruit in agriculture.
54:12It is agriculture, floriculture, and especially the medicinal plants.
54:18We have used this medicinal plant for three years.
54:23And we have used this variety.
54:27We have used this variety, roughly 100 apple varieties.
54:34Rashid's terrace farm features a diverse collection of crops, including unique apple varieties, cherries, kiwis, oranges, lemons and several medicinal
54:45plants.
54:48He successfully cultivated saffron, which is usually grown in the Palmpore region.
55:15We have seen this saffron and saffron. We need to see how much of a productive production we will get.
55:24People are very aware that we don't want to eat the pest-side basis.
55:33We have seen the alternative that people who have terraces, why do they not be utilized?
55:38The main purpose of this is that the government has given assistance.
55:48But the basic thing is that this farmer has made his efforts.
55:56Rashid says he has received full support from various government departments for all his endeavours.
56:02With Irshad Malik, Bureau Report, India Today.
56:11Nice to always get some good news stories, but I want to leave you tonight with something that's not so
56:16good news.
56:17Two strong earthquakes striking Venezuela within less than a minute today have caused extensive damage
56:22and a huge debt toll that has crossed a hundred and counting.
56:27Our thoughts are with the people of Venezuela, a country that has suffered much in recent times.
56:34Those are the images I leave you with, frightening as they are.
56:37But thanks for watching. You stay well. Stay safe. Good night. Shubratri.
56:42Jai Hind. Namaskar.
56:44We are the delphi. Let me, let me, let me, let me.
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