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00:00So we've just talked about how golf is for the traditionalists.
00:02A lot of people like to say it's the sport most like life because it's hard,
00:06but it's also kind of elitist and kind of expensive.
00:09Coming from the NFL, do you see those as features to be protected
00:13or barriers to growth that should be challenged?
00:16Well, I think any sport, professional sport that's worth its salt,
00:22will always sort of challenge where it is.
00:24And I think there's one thing I learned at the NFL over two decades is,
00:28you know, if you're not going forward, you're going backwards.
00:30And innovation matters.
00:31So when I first took the job, I was very clear that we're going to honor tradition,
00:34but we're not going to be overly bound by it.
00:36And you look at some of the trends of the game of golf.
00:38Well, as you say, maybe it has this reputation as elitist.
00:42If you look at the growth since COVID,
00:45participation in golf in this country has grown 39% since COVID.
00:48Now, you don't have to play a sport to watch it on television, but sure helps.
00:53Half of that growth is under the age of 25 or 35.
00:56The average age of a professional tour telecast,
00:58inclusive for the majors, is 66 years old.
01:01So there is a disconnect between where the sport is going
01:03and what professionals have been able to do.
01:05We are closing that gap in significant ways.
01:07And if you just close that gap to a minimum, you've got a bit of a rocket ship.
01:10You've talked about how Live Golf helped expose some of the weaknesses of the tour.
01:15Was the biggest lessons about the economics of professional golf
01:18or about the product itself?
01:19I think it's the product.
01:21I think, listen, there's something about the sports industry I don't understand.
01:25If you look at the history, huge innovation usually doesn't happen without a crisis.
01:29It could be a labor dispute with a collective bargaining agreement.
01:32Back in my old job, the USFL, the AFL-NFL, when I looked at this opportunity,
01:36I just saw the AFL-NFL, which essentially created a lot of systemic changes
01:40in professional football that started to accelerate the growth.
01:44I think we've had that moment here.
01:45So I think a lot of perhaps shortcomings in professional golf
01:50came with a little bit of competition.
01:52We're all Americans, competition's a good thing.
01:54So I think we've seen that, and we're trying to build something
01:57that outlives all of us here.
01:58What did you learn from Pete Rozelle?
02:00I mean, it was before your time.
02:01If we say Pete Rozelle invented all of this, really best practices as well.
02:06If you're the Pete Rozelle of golf, what do you need to do to really jump start it?
02:11It's a really good question.
02:11Pete Rozelle, I think one thing he got, I mean, he was 34 years old.
02:15He did a good job, and I don't think people realize that.
02:17But he was the first one who figured out media, I think, when it came to the NFL.
02:22Yes, I agree.
02:22So the modern media model that I think you see in the NFL that I was a part of,
02:26but then I think other sports have adopted, is if you get your media model right,
02:31you can build the sport.
02:32So when he started working in the NFL, it was probably the third most popular sport
02:36in the country behind professional baseball and college football.
02:39But because of a reach model using network television, he built the sport and told the stories.
02:43And so I think that's one thing I've learned, is how we're concentrating on how do you increase
02:48the reach of the PGA Tour, and how do you tell more stories about the athletes who play it?
02:52Okay, so you've got Arnie from Altoona, Pennsylvania, coming up the course,
02:55lighting it up decades, decades, decades ago.
02:57I was at Rochester in 1968 when Lee Trevino turned your sport upside down.
03:04Who's your new Lee Trevino?
03:06Well, listen, I think we have a lot of stars.
03:09I think there's a misconception about professional golf that a given competition
03:14or a given tournament only matters if one or two golfers are in it.
03:18When you actually look at professional golf, the difference in winning a tournament
03:23and losing a tournament is one stroke over four days.
03:25That type of competitive parity, it's that tight.
03:28The only other place I've seen that is in professional football.
03:30So the reality is we have a collection of some pretty amazing golfers,
03:34whether you take the established guys like Scotty Scheffler and Rory McIlroy,
03:38or you look at the Koivin kid who's just coming out of Auburn
03:41and some of these younger guys who are just really performing well.
03:45I think we have an amazing roster of veterans and young guys who are really, really competitive.
03:51It's our job to actually showcase them better.
03:53Randall was talking to us about the PGA Tour Enterprises, this commercial arm.
03:58Of course, FIFA wanted to follow the tour's lead and spin off its own business
04:02and seek outside investors. That ended up failing.
04:05I'm curious to hear more about the PGA Tour Enterprises
04:08and the role of it in the PGA Tour overall.
04:10Is this something that the players feel and experience?
04:13Is this something that the fans feel and experience?
04:15Yeah, I think the answer is both of them will.
04:18I think the players experience it.
04:20What PGA Tour Enterprises has allowed us to do is to evolve the PGA Tour
04:24where most professional sports have gotten.
04:27We've actually capitalized it and turned it into a commercial business.
04:30And the strength of that commercial business funds innovation.
04:34It funds player purses. It funds everything.
04:36I think the PGA Tour was locked in a bit of a legacy governance model.
04:40Now that the mission is clear and now that we're capitalized, we can do that.
04:43So I think the players will feel it in that you look at the new competitive model that we've announced.
04:48There's healthy purses across the board and they can actually earn equity in the tour.
04:52This is the only professional tour of scale that I can think of.
04:55Players can actually earn equity, which is a huge opportunity and also aligns investors, management, and players like no other
05:03sport in the world.
05:04I think the fans will feel it because of that commercial change to the tour.
05:09We have investment dollars to make the fan experience better, to make the competitive product better, to make the media
05:14product better.
05:15So I think that is – and I think that's one thing that came out of this live competition crisis
05:21is we got focused.
05:22We got capitalized.
05:23Now we know what the mission is.
05:24And I think fans and players are going to win because of that.
05:26What are you personally going to do about slow play?
05:29There's no other – I mean, Meredith Whitney was just on with us.
05:31She's standing on the golf course lining up a five-foot putt for 20 minutes.
05:35Yeah.
05:35And the answer is slow – I mean, the retires.
05:38We do personal finance, retirement, wealth management.
05:40Everybody in retirement wants to play your sport four days a week, but they can't because of stupid slow play.
05:46What do you do?
05:47Well, I don't stay up at night worrying about slow play among amateurs at their country club.
05:51I actually don't care about that.
05:53I only – when I think about the PGA Tour or professional golf, I think it depends when we're talking
06:00about who you're talking to.
06:01When you're talking about slow play on a Thursday or Friday round before the cut when we have 144 players
06:06and it's early in the year
06:08and we're racing against daylight to keep this on television –
06:10There you go.
06:11We need to speak up.
06:11Fascinating.
06:12We need to speak up.
06:13When you're talking about a Sunday round or a playoff and someone's taking extra time to line up a shot
06:19because it's the shot of their life, that's different.
06:21So I think context matters here.
06:23I also think it's about how we produce the sport.
06:25So if you're watching on television and somebody is actually standing over a putt a little longer,
06:29there's a thousand other shots going on on the golf course.
06:32It's our job and our broadcast partners produce it better.
06:34I come from the NFL where we produce the Red Zone Channel.
06:37The Red Zone Channel moved around.
06:39The fact of the matter is half the time when you go in to look at a Cleveland game, it's
06:42not live.
06:43It already happened.
06:43Roll it back.
06:44I think we can produce it better and actually tell a better story.
06:47So it's a complex issue, but I'm not really focused on your local club.
06:50That's the local club's problem.
06:52I'm really focused on the PGA Tour.
06:53Can you do a Red Zone version of the PGA Tour?
06:55I think we could.
06:56I think we're talking about a lot of innovation.
06:57But if you think about how golf is produced already, it is a little bit of a Red Zone.
07:00Here's Scarlett on the 18th green.
07:02Let's take a look.
07:02Let's go over here.
07:03I've got to ask.
07:04Do you need a hydration break?
07:07I mean, please tell me.
07:08I mean, if the ninth hole, a hydration break was a Jenny Kremel.
07:12But that's a story here.
07:13What are you going to do about a hydration break to bring in a marginal million?
07:17Well, no comment on that.
07:19I'll ask the FIFA guys on that.
07:21I don't have a view on that.
07:22Well, having said that, I mean, I'm sure you watched the World Cup.
07:24Are there any learnings from the World Cup, the spectacle that was the World Cup, that you can apply to
07:29pro golf?
07:29I just think in general, I think the World Cup or what we're doing, what other sports are doing, it's
07:37a reminder that the value of sports is increasing.
07:41In a world that is continually fragmented, whether it's by media, so much competition for your attention.
07:47There's a handful of things that are standing out that can aggregate tens of millions of people at one time
07:52doing one thing.
07:53And I think it's sports and maybe some news.
07:56So I think that is encouraging if you're in the sports business.
08:02Now, you know, it doesn't mean you can rest on your laurels.
08:04It means you need to innovate and keep up with the changing demographics of the sports fan.
08:08But I think if the World Cup or anything has taught us is that sports is a pretty strong investment
08:12class.
08:12OK, when you innovate, especially when it comes to media distribution, you get to the point where fans are left
08:17confused.
08:18We have a Bloomberg News story about how sports fans are looking at $2,000 streaming bills in order to
08:23follow their favorite team.
08:24Has it gone too far to the point where fans will start rebelling and it won't work anymore and we
08:29have to kind of rethink this?
08:30Well, if fans are rebelling in sports, we haven't seen it yet.
08:34But I think the larger question is, while I'm a big believer that in order to build a sport, and
08:41the value proposition of sports and media is reach.
08:43How many people can you reach?
08:44How can you aggregate audiences?
08:46That is still true.
08:47Pete Rosell got that right.
08:48That is still the case.
08:49The difference is reach is much more complicated because of where the media world is.
08:53I've got to slip this in.
08:54You have a gift.
08:55He's at Florida State.
08:57I think he's 14.
08:57I don't think he can drive a car.
08:59Miles Russell, what do you do with a property like Miles Russell who's 15, I think 15, 16 years old?
09:06Well, I think what you're going to see is when we announce our new competitive model, which if you study
09:11it, what we've done is we've opened up the meritocracy of the PGA Tour.
09:15We've created a championship series, which is the top 23 events or so, where the top 120 golfers are going
09:20to compete together week in and week out.
09:23They can't play down into the Challenger Series, which is for everybody else.
09:26They will compete for a regular season title that will be the most prestigious thing in golf.
09:33There will also be promotion relegation.
09:35So at the end of that, you're going to be relegated down.
09:37My point is we've opened up the meritocracy.
09:39So if he's that good, we have now created a system where he will work his way in to be
09:45into the top.
09:46No more sponsor exemptions, no more of the stuff that hit in the meritocracy.
09:50Where you play is based on how you earned it in the play.
09:53So I think that's important.
09:54Brian, at some point, LeBron James will have a lot of free time.
09:57And we know that he's been playing a lot of golf.
09:59And he is an investor in PGA Tour Enterprises.
10:02Have you talked to Mr. James about some kind of role for him in professional golf?
10:05I don't know, some kind of ambassadorial role?
10:07No, I haven't.
10:08But I think LeBron James is an example of the growth of the sport.
10:14When people get the bug, they get the bug.
10:18And it's a great competitive sport to play, but also to watch.
10:21And so we'd love LeBron to be more involved.
10:23We'd love everyone to be more involved.
10:25And I think you're going to see more of that over time.
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