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South Asia's Youth Upsurge: Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal and India | SAM Conversation
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00:07Welcome to South Asia Monaster's SAM Conversation. I am Tarun Basu. In this program, we are
00:17going to discuss the recent youth uprisings in South Asia, which, as we all know, is home
00:25to a quarter of the global population, and which has not just taken the countries themselves
00:31by surprise, but also the region and the world. And it has been extensively reported and analyzed
00:39around the world. Youth-led revolts have led to the fall of three governments in Sri Lanka,
00:48Bangladesh, and Nepal, while in the most recent case in India, over a month-long sustained
00:58student-led protests have caused the resignation of a cabinet minister and shaken up the Modi
01:05government like never before. The pent-up anger of the youth has taken the older generation
01:14by surprise in most of these countries, including its political parties, where youth representation
01:22in politics has not really kept up with the youth demographics. Many questions have been
01:30raised in each of these countries about the provenance of these protests, their financing,
01:36the alleged infiltration by outsiders, and most important, the sustainability of such spontaneous,
01:45yet largely organic movements. To answer some of these questions and discuss the South Asian
01:54youth unrest, we have with us an eminent panel of experts from the region, Tugiswara Senadhira,
02:03journalist, diplomat, civil servant, columnist, strategic analyst from Colombo, who, as you can see,
02:13has worn a wide range of professional hats in his decades-long career, professional career. We have Dr.
02:20Ghulam Rasool, economist, professor, scholar, and policy commentator from Dhaka. And lastly,
02:29the Uday Bhaskar, president of the Society for Policy Studies that runs South Asia Monitor,
02:35an Indian Navy veteran, and a preeminent strategic and contemporary affairs analyst and commentator.
02:46Mr. Senadhira, we'll start with you because Sri Lanka was the first country in the region
02:50to witness these youth-led revolts, which were called Argala, which I think means the struggle.
02:59A series of mass protests that began in March 2020, 2022, against severe economic mismanagement
03:08that led to crippling inflation, daily blackouts, and shortages of fuel, gas, and essential goods.
03:14In March 2020, the presidential residence crowd stoned the presidential residence on July 9th,
03:18that's again almost four years ago, forcing President Gotabaya Rajapaksa to flee the country.
03:24Prime Minister Mahind Rajapaksa resigned in May, followed by Gotabaya's resignation on July 14th.
03:32The movement successfully ousted the powerful Rajapaksa family from power.
03:41Mr. Senadhira, three years later, or four years later, where does the country stand?
03:47And what is the status of the protesters, as not much has been heard about them?
03:53Have they dispersed? Or is there some kind of a pressure group that is working to see
03:57that causes that led to their action get resolved?
04:02Thank you, Mr. Basu. Thank you, Mr. Basu.
04:06Hello, Professor Ghulam Razul and Komodo Bhaskar.
04:11First of all, I would like to say that the Argaleo started, you know, the EU Congress in South Asia,
04:18it was a continuous thing, the political landscape of South Asia, which was dominated by traditional political
04:25parties for more than eight decades after the independence of Sri Lanka, India, Bangladesh,
04:32and the other countries in South Asia. They are undergoing a profound transformation now.
04:41The region's youth from vibrant professionals to educated, but mostly not from the unemployed,
04:48but also underemployed youth have emerged as the most potent force challenging the entrenched
04:56political establishments. We had, as you know, since 1948, we had a two-party system, you know,
05:04Sri Lanka Freedom Party and the United National Party ruled in turn for the first four decades of the
05:12post-independence period. It's a struggle. Youth struggle or something continued even from
05:21it inherited from the colonial era. In the 30s, Sri Lanka's elite, the youth of elite families went to
05:35U.S.A. and the UK, the London School of Economics, Cambridge, Oxford, and should they, as of similar to
05:46India, no Bangladesh, I mean India, no Pakistani or the South Asian nation's elite youth, they turned to be the
05:55Marxist-Marxist-Socialists. And they took the anti-colonial crusade throughout. You know, Dr. N. M. Perra,
06:08Philip Gunnard, Peter Kenneman, and all those leftist leaders, not only started the anti-colonial
06:15movement in Sri Lanka, they also held the
06:20and downtrodden people of Sri Lanka by establishing cooperative movements, anti-malaria, health campaigns,
06:30then Surya Mal movement, similar to the poppy flower movement of the British Allied forces. So,
06:41this sort of things started way back in 1930s. The trend continued, but with the
06:48establishment of the traditional, after independence of two traditional parties, it changed. But youth
06:57insurrections of 1971, first by the Janatabi Mukti Peramun, which is in, which is ruling Sri Lanka now,
07:05and with the Alliance of the National People's Power, and the Tamil militant youths of Liberation Tigers,
07:15Satami Elam, they entrenched the political leadership among the common people. But still,
07:26the people of Sri Lanka were not ready for, you know, revolutionally armed, blood-shedding,
07:37revolutionary transformation in the society. Hence, they did not succeed at that juncture.
07:45In Tarun, you have a question about Narragalaya, which started when, because of the growing middle class
07:56professionals, the expansion of the middle class in Sri Lanka, it came to almost 40% of the entire
08:05population, the middle class, which was, you know, at the time of independence, it was some year earlier,
08:12about 12%. And with that, the middle-caste professionals, the youths, too, were disentrenched
08:20with the continuous dominance of the two parties, and especially during Mahindra Rajapaksa's Chenua,
08:29followed by other two leaders, there was corruption at a very high level. So, this
08:39also began as anti-corruption with the economic collapse in 1922. What happened was,
08:50yeah, the professional youths came to the street.
08:54Narragalaya, you know, sorry to interrupt you. You know, much of the history is known.
09:01What we would like to know, and what our audience would like to know, that
09:05four years later, where does this movement stand? We haven't heard much about it. Where are the
09:11student leaders? And is there, have they formed a political party? Have they formed some kind of
09:18an organization? Have they are some kind of a pressure group that they have formed? Who keeps track of the
09:25promises that the government made at that time? And whether the reasons for which they went to
09:30and launch this protest, have those reasons been, you know, have the reasons the government has attended
09:40to them? And have there been, the problems been answered? What happened was, the movement was led by
09:49the youths of socialist movements, you know, who broke away from the radical Janatawi, today's ruling party.
10:01They found that after JVP entered the democratic mainstream, they formed the forward block, the
10:08political party. So, that group started with establishing their total control over the
10:19universities. Universities, students unions, all of them, except for Jaffna and Baricclaw and Rinko,
10:26all other 12 universities, the student movements are controlled by the peritogamis, the forward block.
10:35And forward block paved way for Dharagalaya. I mean, they were the leading figures of Dharagalaya.
10:42But after the end of Aragalaya, after Gautab fled the country, and the change of government,
10:51the JVP took over the banner. And with that, they came into power. With that, you know, the government,
11:00the people, you know, total... Some of those student leaders who led the movement, they are in power now?
11:07And no, not any of them. But they were... Where are they? Where are they?
11:13They are still continuing their struggle. But they are in a very bad dicket because now their slogans were taken
11:24over by the government party. The former radical militant, armed militant of JVP, now they have taken
11:33all those slogans. The government kind of hijacked their slogans, you are saying? That's right. That's
11:43which created so much stir and led to the fall of the government. The core movement has more or less
11:49been scuttled or dispersed. Is that right? Well...
11:53Is there any pressure group left from them who kind of monitors what the government is doing?
11:59Yes, they do monitor, especially with the forward block and other several groups of Aragale. One
12:08Aragale party, you see, the radical militant group now turned to democratic mainstream. And forward block,
12:17you see, they could not win any seats in parliament. But still, even today, they are controlling the
12:24students' movement, not only in the universities, but also in certain establishments like
12:31Colombo Port and the trade unions of various establishments. So, they are forced to reckon with.
12:43Okay. Okay. We'll come back to you. And also, I would like you to comment later after Komodo Bhaskar
12:48on how the Indian protest movement played in Sri Lanka and what influence did it have. But we'll come
12:54back to you later. Now, I invite Dr. Gholam Rasool. Dr. Rasool, August 5, as you have written today in
13:04our commentary, is a very significant date in Bangladesh's recent political history. Exactly two
13:10years ago, on this day, in 2024, the Awami League's government 16-year rule came to an end amid a
13:17nationwide mass uprising that emerged from the anti-discrimination student movement. The movement,
13:26which began with demands for quota reform in public sector recruitment, gradually evolved into a
13:34nationwide uprising as people from all walks of life joined the students. Professionals, workers, teachers,
13:43parents, relatives of those killed during the protests, and countless ordinary citizens took to
13:49the streets in support of the movement. So, two years later, where are the students and what is left
13:57of this historic movement? Dr. Rasool, over to you. Thank you very much, Torunji. You have rightly mentioned that
14:06today, Bangladesh is celebrating a second anniversary of, here it is called July Revolution, on when the
14:16Awami League government and toppled after 16 years of ruling. So, this is a significant, historical
14:29significant. So, this is particularly for Bangladesh, had some political. Of course, this movement, as you
14:36mentioned, it started with economic, but it immediately moved to the political, and then also institutional.
14:44So, last two years, there are a lot of demand, and particularly the student leader who were earlier
14:51leading this movement started, basically from the Dhaka University, our center. So, their demand,
14:59demand, when gradually become a, it's a people's demand. So, their demand was basically a change in
15:06political system. It was demand, initial demand was quota removal, then demand of the
15:13government, government fault. And then, actually, after this, when government fault, then demand
15:21more further, then we need a political, change in political system. Because the political, current
15:27political system have been, Bangladesh, we are seeing. So, there are many, many, some sort of
15:35issue and grievances coming. Particularly, our political system gives a lot of authority and power to the
15:41prime minister. All authority power was concentrated at the hand of the prime minister. So, there was the
15:48issue, how can we distribute the power to different sectors, so that, or different constitutional bodies,
15:54so that the authoritarian prime minister cannot be authoritarian. So, demand was coming, major demand was
16:01coming, the reform. Reform, one reform is the constitutional reform to distribution of the power of the prime
16:09minister and minister and other institutions equally, so that it, it is. And then, demand was also to
16:16judiciary change, the judiciary really independent. Demand was to making institution more, more
16:23accountable, transparent, all that. How much of these demands have been met?
16:28Okay. So, now, these student leaders, student leaders, they formed, after that, they formed a political
16:34political party. Political party, yeah. It's called National Citizenship Party, NCP. So, the NCP is now
16:41participated in election. In last February, we had a national election. In this election,
16:48a good number of the student leaders came in the parliament. So, they are now in opposition.
16:54So, they are now in the opposition in parliament. So, now, Bangladesh, if we look at the outcome of the
17:02last movement, we can see there is a change in political government. Now, new government, there is
17:08an election. Elected relatively free and fair election was done. And then, now, in the elected
17:17government running the country. So, this is one major shift here. And regarding the outcome change,
17:27that what the demand was coming from the street, that we need to change the political system, more
17:33accountable, more transparent, you know, that. So, that is the process is started. But I think it,
17:44they're changing the democratic institution and judiciary, it said, take some time. So, constitutional
17:51reform process also is going on now. So, this political, that student leaders are in part of
17:58this, this process now.
18:00Dr. Guram Rasool, thank you for your submissions on Bangladesh. But since you have, we have nobody
18:07from Nepal in this program, I would like you to quickly also, you know, tell us a bit about the
18:14Nepal, because that was after Bangladesh. This happened last year in Kathmandu and elsewhere.
18:19The turmoil began on September 8. So, you know, coincidentally, all these events, whether in
18:27Bangladesh, whether in Sri Lanka, in Nepal, India, all happened during this July, August, September
18:34months, you know. And when police in Kathmandu opened fire on anti-corruption protesters as they tried to
18:40breach parliament walls. These youth were spurred by rising costs of living, inflation, corruption and
18:48nepotism and nepotism and rising inequality between the elite and ordinary folks. Mobbed,
18:56torched buildings, looted banks and shops and attacked politicians in their homes. The violence killed
19:02more than 70 people and wounded thousands more. And in less than 48 hours, protesters forced the overthrow of
19:09the government. Nepal's government was the third in South Asia to be overthrown by protesters. And it underscored
19:17the profound generational change shaking the world's most populous region and testing government's ability to
19:24meet their citizens' expectations. Professor Rasool, just a few words on Nepal, if you can just take two
19:31minutes on Nepal and then we'll come back to you later. Okay. Actually Nepal, to me, it is very unprecedented.
19:38But like Bangladesh, we are students are always, historically, they are very active. Nepal was
19:43unprecedented and Nepali people are so peaceful. When I was looking at the Nepal protest, I was showing
19:50burning. It is amazed me because I lived more than 10 years in Nepal and I was, I see that
19:56Nepali people are so
19:57soft, so polite. They really very, quite, quite a different comparison to our, I would say, Bangladesh,
20:06India, on that. So when I saw that, that, wow, this causes, what are the grievance? So I can just
20:13immediately recognize that when the new government came in the, in the Maush government, by communist
20:19government, after I, actually I was in Kathmandu in 2006, that movement also, I saw that huge movement.
20:25And then, and I saw that when the, with strong majority, the, the, the, the Maoist government,
20:32communist government come here, huge expectation of the people for that. There was many expectation,
20:38good governance and economic growth, development, all that. But again and again, there was a frustration
20:46coming from the people as a whole and the young people particularly. So there was a, the government was
20:53totally, I would, I would say, could not deliver the, meet the expectation of the people, quite
20:59ineffective and frequent, frequent change of the government. In, I think, last, last 10 years,
21:06they have 13, 14 government has changed. So it was basically this coalition, that coalition.
21:11A youthful prime minister has, a Gen Z prime minister has taken office. But I think again,
21:17once again, the frustration and resentment of old issues have come to the surface. And I read about a
21:25lot of protests happening still in Kathmandu. So obviously, the problems that happened, problems that
21:33have caused this revolt, have they have not been resolved by a new prime minister, who's supposed to
21:41know the feelings and aspirations of the youth much more than previous prime ministers.
21:48I think I have been following this, but I think my, what I have been following at that, the new
21:54prime
21:54minister actually, he, he has taken very strongly against corruption to enhance the accountability,
22:00good governance. And some of the issues, what we have seen, some in Tarai, some Hindu Muslim issue,
22:07or these issues coming, I think these are not a, not a very structural or bigger issue. These are coming
22:14very, I see these are basically local issues coming from some, some Suri district of Tarai, of local. So, but
22:22I,
22:22when I saw that, that this government, they're looking the performance of the only few months,
22:30so I think this government is in terms of their commitment, I think this government is trying to
22:35do, because Nepal, one of the major issue was the ineffectiveness of the government and corruption.
22:40I think in both the side, this government, I see is really doing effective job. But some of the recent
22:47issues, what we are seeing now, to me, these are basically very local issue. These are not the
22:52structure issue of the thing.
22:54So, good to get this clarification. Well, now we turn to India, the most recent of these events,
23:02which are too recent to bear repetition, and has been followed and reported globally. Commodore
23:08Uday Bhaskar himself was there at the protest site, more than one day. All I was saying was that in
23:17a
23:21day protest led to two senior cabinet ministers of the Modi government coming to negotiate with the
23:27students. The education minister was forced to resign, and the government had to give written
23:33assurances to the students, besides committing to withdraw all legal and police cases against them.
23:38So what are the lessons to be drawn from this, Uday? The lessons that can be drawn, Tarun, as we
23:46have rightly pointed out, this has been a very, very significant punctuation in Indian politics,
23:54particularly in the last 12 years, since Prime Minister Modi has assumed office. Because this is his third term,
24:03and there has been a sense of an aura about the Modi government, that they were in a very, very
24:11powerful position electorally, and that the government seemed to be, quote unquote, invincible
24:19in terms both of its electoral footprint, and the way in which the government was being run.
24:26Clearly, there were a number of inadequacies in the education sector,
24:31which are structural. I think we must acknowledge that the deficiencies, inadequacies in the Indian
24:40education system have been festering for decades. I mean, it goes back, frankly, I think,
24:47to the time Prime Minister Narasimha Rao was in office, and he himself was the minister for HRD.
24:53And he realized the scale of the problem, but the state was not able to prioritize funding,
24:58and finding the right kind of HRD. And that was a complex problem, because in India, education is
25:05what is called as a concurrent subject. Responsibility devolves both on the center and the state
25:12governments. And we are also aware that large states like Uttar Pradesh in India, even after the bifurcation,
25:20have populations that are larger than major European countries, like France and Germany and so on.
25:28So, in that sense, the first observation is that the problem in education is structural.
25:33But July 20th, I think the way in which the protesters, they call themselves the CJP, the Cockroach
25:42Janta Party, were able to garner support, not just from Gen Z, as it is called, but from a senior
25:51demography. Some millennials, some who were in their 40s and 50s, all who were drawn to Jantar Mantra,
25:59which is this very, very famous site in Delhi for protests. And the trigger really was the way in which
26:08the chief justice of India had referred or used the term cockroaches. And that was picked up. And that
26:13again, is very well known. But the lessons learned, if you don't mind, you know, as a baby boomer who
26:20went to the protests, what did you expect? And what really surprised you when you went there?
26:27What surprised me, Tarun, was the energy. The day I went, it was three days before 20th.
26:33We were there on 16th, 17th of July. And I met a large cross section of students,
26:39their well-wishers, you know, people in their 30s and 40s. And I met some postdoc students who had
26:45come from different parts of India. There were a couple of youngsters who came all the way from Bombay
26:50just to be part of the protest. Because in many ways, the exam leaked. That was the catalyst.
26:56The fact that the exam paper for the NEET, you know, India has this one exam for students who are
27:02aspiring for various professional forces. And that leak had enormous repercussions for them.
27:09So that was the trigger. But what I saw was energy. And it was a very Gandhian protest.
27:15It is true that there were some elements who were trying to raise trouble.
27:18That way, I think, this Indian protest at Janta Mantar was different from the ones in
27:25Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal, which were very violent and led to a lot of loss of lives.
27:32But in the New Delhi protest and also the ones that happened in other cities, they were largely
27:38peaceful and, as you said, very Gandhian. And if at all there is any violence, it wasn't
27:44the part of the police and security forces. I don't think the students by and large engaged in any
27:51violence. Now, a question that, you know, I have been asked and a lot of people are asking and
27:57especially people from our generation who are a little skeptical, if not cynical, was,
28:03is this really spontaneous? Wasn't it funded by somebody? And how can the students mobilize so much,
28:12so many people on their own? I'm told that in the initial days, when they called,
28:19when they gave a call for the parliament march, the intelligence bureau reported that they were
28:27expecting about 5,000 people maximum, but 50,000 turned up. That shows how hopelessly wrong they were.
28:36So, what was it that the generation did, this Gen Z did, which or the way they interacted and the
28:47way
28:47they mobilized, that really took everybody by surprise?
28:51No, you're right. And many questions have been asked.
28:55Instrumentalities that they used.
28:56I'm saying the kind of question that you have raised has been asked by a number of people. There
29:00are various conspiracy theories. People are asking the same question. How was Ditke, the leader,
29:06allowed to come from Boston? Why did the government give permission to Pajantar Mantar? So, one
29:12conspiracy theory is that the government enabled it to sort out some domestic politics. But I don't buy
29:17that. You know, when I look at, when I recall my visit, how did they organize themselves? How did the
29:24food arrive? Things of that sort. I think there really were a large number of well-wishers who were
29:30mobilized. Many of them chose to be anonymous, you know, and didn't want to be identified. But what stands
29:37out to me, Tarun, is the fearlessness of this entire generation of student protesters. The young men and the
29:44women, I would salute the women, because they were there from all parts of India, from all
29:49demographies. There were some young girls whom I spoke to from UP and Bihar, who had come there without
29:55the permission of their parents. And their parents were the equivalent of daily ragers and those who
30:01were selling vegetables and that kind of cross-section. So, I would say the Indian protest is actually
30:06sui generis. It is very distinctive. It had the potential to become pan-India. That is when I think the
30:13Prime Minister stepped in and Pradhan, the Minister for Education, his resignation, I think, was in a
30:20way compelled. So, there's much to discuss about the Indian protest and what impact it will have
30:26on Indian politics and the education system, hopefully. But I think for now, we will defer to
30:32our colleagues from Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. Mr. Seradheera, so, you know, how much did these Indian
30:39protests play in Sri Lanka, where they closely followed by the young people and where comparisons
30:46drawn between the Argalaya protest and the Delhi protest? And what are the kind of conclusions that
30:52people have drawn there? Yes, whatever happens in India is extremely crucial for Sri Lankans. This is,
31:01they keep India watch throughout, especially the younger lot. They always look at India. But what you
31:10mentioned about two things in the discussion about the violence factor and death toll in Bangladesh and
31:19Nepal. But even in Sri Lanka, though protesters surrounded the President's House, then President
31:29Gautavir Rajapaksin did not order the Secretary of Forces to shoot at the protesters. Simply, he decided to
31:38leave the premises and go to Trincomadi. Is it with that, many, if he had given any orders, his personal
31:50secretary guards would have to, you know, to take an arms against the protesters, there could have been a
31:57bloodbath. But that did not happen. So, fortunately, there are no large scale bloodshed in Sri Lankan protest.
32:08The other one is that Sri Lankan protest is different from India's one. Because Sri Lanka, it was the middle
32:19class youths who took the leadership of Naragalaya and the university students. Hardly any rural youths were
32:30there at the forefront of Naragalaya. They were completely Colombo-based professionals, youths,
32:39even doctors, engineers, and architects. They were all too. And there were hardly any politicians in the
32:47forefront of Naragalaya. In fact, both Anuragalaya and the opposition leader, still the opposition leader,
32:59Sajid Premadasa, they tried to enter the Naragalaya premises to express their support to them, but they were
33:08chased away. Both Anuragalaya and Premadasa had to run into their cars because the
33:18Naragalaya supporters were chasing them. And so, that's one of the differences. There was no politics
33:25in this one, even in the Indian ones. I don't think they are very much similar to that. So, Sri
33:32Lanka
33:32watch it very, very carefully, especially the forward block, which I said the force to reckon with.
33:39You see, they are the leading opponents now, though they are not hurt much in the international arena,
33:46because they don't hold office. But more than the opposition, the main opposition parties like the
33:56United National Party, Sri Lanka Freedom Party, and the newly merged SJB of Premadasa, all these parties are
34:06playing the opposition role within the parliament and within the democratic setup. Whereas the four
34:13Maragalaya leaders of the forward block, they started mobilizing people now, especially in the
34:22universities and other institutions, and also trade union movement. They have entrenched the trade union
34:31movement also. They keep a close watch on the Indian one and the lessons from there. And they try to
34:41currently their main name is to correct the path of the government. The government has given a lot of
34:48promises as, you know, during an election that you do all sort of promises and you can hardly keep them.
34:56When the inflation is galloping and the economic growth is deteriorating, declining. And with these
35:05problems and unemployment, more than unemployment is unemployment. With these issues, you know,
35:11there's a resentment among the youth now. So the forward block and other Aragalaya leaders are trying to
35:18capitalize on that. And for them, this very good lesson from India, the cockroach party.
35:28Okay, okay, great. Professor Rasool, I'll now ask you the same question I asked Mr. Senadhira. How much did this
35:38Indian protest, student protest play in Bangladesh? And what lessons can be drawn and where comparisons
35:47drawn between what happened in August 2024 and July-August 2026 in India?
35:56Thank you very much again. So I think, you know, now the student movement, it is now, it is not
36:04only
36:05an economic and political issue. It is a geopolitical issue also, because now there is a cross-country
36:12sharing and learning is very, very common, very strong even, I would say. Even when Bangladesh,
36:19when the 2024 movement was there, I saw there was a strong support from India, all that. Even
36:27Kolkata, there was a protest, street protest in support of the Bangladesh protestant. So here in now,
36:34when the Jonathar Mantra movement was going on, what I saw observed in social media and the people,
36:43they are very closely, closely following and sharing and feeling some sort of sympathy. This sympathy was
36:50there. They are strongly feeling and, but important lesson, I think, what can be drawn from India,
36:57from other countries, particularly what I, what I was observing and a little bit very
37:04inspired, what our Commodore Udaya Bhaskarji told, that Indian movement is a crack status was quite
37:12different from other three movements. If you see that both Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, these are
37:18quite violent at a certain stage. In Bangladesh, one initially was very non-violent, but at the end,
37:26it was very violent. When the state machinery started, then it became very violent, a lot of people died,
37:33a lot of things. Even Nepal is such a peaceful and so people, there are so much violation, a violent
37:39activity.
37:41You know, the writer Tasliman Asrin, who is now in Kolkata, and you must have read about her speeches,
37:47she has alleged that the student movement in Bangladesh, although it was started by students,
37:52was hijacked by the Islamists. And that's why it led to so much violence. And if the Islamists had not
38:00hijacked, possibly that much violence had not happened. And Islamists, they mean, she obviously
38:05meant the Jamaat Islam. Is there any truth in that?
38:10Yeah, there are, you know, different aspects of looking at that. But when the student movement started,
38:17initially it was there, non-political, non-partisan, they are really student and demand was there.
38:23But when the, when the movement spread, then many political parties also come,
38:30including the Jamaat Islam or other political parties. Because Jamaat Islam was, was, and particularly,
38:38there was a big grievances against the Amalek government, like that the elections were not
38:47free, fair, all that. So, there was general grievance that there is no way to change the
38:54government through democratic way. This was a major political grievance in entire country,
38:59was there. Because three election was very contentious. And there was, so when it become
39:06a, from more, from a student movement to the mass movement, then many parties came,
39:10including Jamaat Islam. And these, these parties had a very strong...
39:15Did they not only wrote that student bandwagon, but did they hijack the movement completely?
39:19That, I am not sure whether we can say they hijacked it. But of course, they played an important
39:28role there. Because many of the student leaders, when they have a, because the Islamic parties,
39:34they have a strong cadar-based cadar, ideological strong cadar. So, when they participated, so movement
39:43become very, a bit violent. So, I think I, I, I, I do not fully buy the Tosliman Nasrin comment,
39:53but of course, there was many people participated, including Islamic parties. And Islamic parties,
40:01they have a trend of a strong cadar. So, that make the, probably the movement very, very, a bit violent.
40:10All right. Uday, can I bring you in to round up this discussion? Also, I would like you to,
40:16because, you know, when you're talking of South Asia, we thought, but not talk of Pakistan.
40:20And there has been speculation whether Pakistan to such a movement can happen or not happen. And
40:26there's an interesting article written by our friend and leading strategic affairs commentator,
40:32Raja Mohan, who says, and I quote, that although there's a lot of frustration among Pakistan youth,
40:39for the Pakistani army's instrumentalization of religion, nationalism, and state control over
40:46society, prevents this frustration from coalescing into a nationwide democratic movement,
40:52like the ones that happened in the rest of South Asia. Uday, would you like to comment on this and
40:57round up this discussion? Yeah, I think specific to Pakistan, Tarun, I would say that's a fair comment,
41:02what Raja Mohan has said. And perhaps the Pakistani deep state has learned from the Imran Khan experience.
41:11Because if you recall, youth had been mobilized by the Imran Khan PTI. And subsequently, it took the
41:18army about a year plus to be able to get on top of this situation as to how to control
41:24social media,
41:25and thereby prevent the youth from mobilizing in the way that they were capable of. But one
41:32interesting aspect, which plays into Indian domestic politics also, is that this particular movement,
41:37one of the elements is the use of social media, particularly Instagram, and the irreverence
41:44with which they approached those in authority. You know, the way in which they, for instance,
41:49ridiculed Prime Minister Modi is something that is unprecedented. It is unprecedented, completely.
41:55But I'm saying it's unfortunate that some of them, of course, turned and used vulgar language.
41:59But by and large, I think the sentiment that they exuded was both innocence and insouciance,
42:07you know, a kind of irreverence that was spontaneous. And that ricocheted into Pakistan,
42:12because I followed that very closely. And many Pakistani young influencers
42:17were actually empathizing and saying that, but for the border, we would have been at Jantar Mantra.
42:23So what that does in terms of domestic politics is that innovate undermines Pakistan as the
42:29adversary, which had been one of the planks for the BJP. But that's a far more complex subject.
42:35We'll get there at some point, hopefully. But the relevance for South Asia, which I think both
42:40Professor Rasul and Mr. Senadira had touched upon, is that for South Asia, all these movements,
42:47both in individual countries such as Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, and what has happened in India,
42:54there are many lessons, both for those who are governing these countries,
42:58and those in civil society who can possibly make a contribution. I deliberately use the word govern,
43:05because this is one of the things that struck me when I went to Jantar Mantra Tarun.
43:09Many of these youngsters, students, protesters are very well rated.
43:14They are able to quote Ambedkar, the constitution. And one question they asked me, I'm 75 plus,
43:21you know, we are in that generation. They said, why are we constantly told that we are being ruled?
43:26Modi does not rule India. He governs India. And I thought that was a very important
43:32observation in terms of the accuracy. So I think for South Asia, some of the numbers are staggering.
43:39South Asia's total population is in excess of 2 billion. It is estimated that more than 30 percent
43:46of them could be considered Gen Z or young generation. That is more than 650 to 680 million.
43:57The people who are governing have to deal with this ferment.
44:02And one particular, I think, lesson that is learned from all these countries is that using force can
44:09give you short term stability. But the major problem has to be addressed. Education and the fact that most
44:16of it is being privatized, at least in India and employment. That is a huge point. Every month,
44:24South Asia has 1 million people who are entering the workforce, the labor market, and there are no jobs.
44:31So government after government is, I think today we had an article by three very eminent Indians
44:37about over promising and not delivering. That's what we said of all of South Asia. You know,
44:43there is a large economic underpinning related to inflation. Where there is employment, they are underpaid.
44:50So I think these are all structured issues that have to be addressed. But I'd like to thank our guests,
44:56both Mr. Sanadheera from Sri Lanka, Professor Gholam Rasool, who is an active contributor.
45:02So is Sanadheera. And I think I'm glad that South Asia Monitor as a platform is able to enable these
45:08kind
45:09of exchanges. We haven't really got to any conclusion about these protests. I hope we can revisit it again.
45:17But on that note, let me thank Mr. Sanadheera from Sri Lanka, Professor Gholam Rasool from
45:23Bangladesh. And Parun, thank you for putting this together and allowing us to have this conversation.
45:28Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, everybody. Thank you very much.
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