- 2 days ago
For Rolling Stone’s September 2026 cover story, Gracie Abrams visits an art studio in Brooklyn for a portrait painting session with Senior Writer Alex Morris. Over easels and easy banter, Abrams opens up about the partnerships that helped her write 'Daughter from Hell,' including those with her boyfriend, Paul Mescal, and her frequent collaborator, The National's Aaron Dessner. She also discusses the creativity her relationship inspires, her coming foray into acting, and whether or not she really was a daughter from hell.
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00:10Greasy. Okay, so we're painting. Yes. We're painting each other. We're painting each other.
00:13And this was your idea, and I, how did you, how did you get this idea? Okay, first of all,
00:18I'm,
00:19I'm gonna try not to stop looking at you while I do this blind contour. Okay. And answer your
00:23question. Blind contour, so you, you know the terminology? Well, no, no, it just, as in, I try
00:27not to take my hand off the canvas while I do a sketch of your face, so it's gonna be
00:32super
00:32abstract. That's what I'm telling you is, like, it keeps, it keeps feelings less hurt. You're
00:37making me, you sound like you know what you're doing. I don't, I swear to God, you're gonna
00:40see, and you're gonna be like, oh, what was she looking at? Anyway, I'm so happy to be
00:45with you today. I'm so happy to be with you. You stopped touring in August, and then you
00:51started working on the album at the end of last, of 2025. Sort of tell me what stage things
01:00are in when you stopped touring, and how, you know, the next few months went for you.
01:06There are a few songs that we recorded the same day that we recorded That's So True and
01:12I Told You Things. There was a lot, kind of, happening, percolating before I felt remotely
01:22ready to consider the concept of making another album, and I think that's what's, like, beautiful
01:28about sort of, like, long-time collaborations, like the one I'm lucky enough to have with Aaron,
01:33is that, like, he made it impossible for me to forget things that I think I, like, easily
01:40put out of my head, just as a result of time moving quickly and feeling like I have recency
01:47bias with some things, and the album came together. It kind of fell out of me, and it was not,
01:53I didn't expect to have an album so quickly. I also didn't know what I wanted to say. I think
01:58my, like,
01:59nervous system was a bit shot after coming off tour, and I think I was trying to toggle between what
02:06my
02:07body needed and how I was using it, being on the road. I don't know, it felt like a way,
02:14not being
02:14on tour allowed me to have some more clarity about my own internal rhythm, I guess, you know, not being
02:21performing, and that was really lovely. As much as you have grown to love touring, and you've talked
02:30about that as well, how do you get back to being yourself? Like, touring is such a double-edged sword
02:37in this way, because I really believe, like, it is the greatest gift, because I think it is sort of,
02:42like, the antidote to the times we're living in right now, in terms of it being a space where people
02:48are
02:48connected, and it's, like, the least cynical thing you could do is, like, go out of your way to show
02:54up
02:54somewhere and sing with a bunch of strangers. It's, like, absolutely stunning, and also then the other
03:00truth of touring is, like, that it is weirdly intense sometimes on your body or on your, you know,
03:06relationships with everyone at home, and you feel kind of distant and far away, and I think the exhaustion
03:12that sometimes comes with that, and I wonder, I assume every one of us in our respective fields has
03:19this thing where you, so you're sometimes white-knuckling in order to preserve the amount of energy that you
03:25want to give to what you're committed to, and so for me, like, writing on the road, it wasn't as
03:33consistent as it is when I am at home, and sometimes that would freak me out, you know what I
03:38mean?
03:38Because I think it's, like, I want to be able to capture every chapter of my life as accurately as
03:46possible, but I also am really grateful for the amount of presence that I think I had throughout
03:53the tour, and I would journal a lot, you know, and I think, like, just giving myself grace and
03:59understanding that, like, even though the feeling is always present, that, like, I might never write
04:04a song again. It's, like, that's never actually been the case, so. You do feel that way, though? Yeah, every
04:09time.
04:10There's some music on this album that kind of talks about what it was like to be in that,
04:16white-knuckling state sometimes, and I'm grateful that I got to get to that place of sort of
04:23metabolizing those feelings. Which song, I mean, I think I have an idea, but which songs are you
04:27referring to exactly? A Look at My Life is totally sort of about the fishbowl of it all. You have
04:33a
04:33lyric in that song, Got What I Wanted, It Doesn't Sit Right? Mm-hmm. What were you referring to?
04:39I just think that there are sometimes aspects of, even if we're zooming out, just, like, growing up,
04:46that feels sometimes at odds with, like, my nervous system, I suppose, or something, and there can be,
04:52like, I was, like, a bedroom-dwelling teen. Being perceived, like, in any capacity, regardless of what
05:01kind of platform you have, like, that can feel frightening and uncomfortable, you know? And
05:05referring to that in that moment, and, you know, it's a, it's weird to become an adult.
05:14You know what I mean? It's very weird to become an adult, and to be an adult,
05:18and to be a child, and all the things. What kind of a kid were you?
05:23Yeah, I was, like, kind of shy, but I was kind of proud, also, I think. I think I would
05:28keep things
05:29from people, and that's why writing became, like, the best thing that ever happened to me,
05:34because I didn't feel like talking to anyone, frankly. And so, like, I would just write instead
05:44and process everything that way, and it was, like, a really remarkable friend to have in my adolescence,
05:50and luckily has, like, remained that way, you know? And I don't think rebellious is the right
05:56word, but I wanted to, like, dare to do things, and I, and then I was also really afraid, so
06:01there
06:01were these, like, funny contradictions that I, like, looking back now, I, I have fondness for,
06:09but I think in real time I would get frustrated with myself a lot. I think there was, like,
06:13lots of self-deprecating thought that made its way into my songwriting when I was little, and
06:21yeah, I think I was quite judgmental, to be honest.
06:23Of what?
06:26Of myself, really, and I think, I think, like, I wanted, I, I was ambitious socially, but also more
06:34afraid than not, and that was a complicated thing to contend with, but I do think it's just, like,
06:41I don't know, the older I get, the more my heart grows just for everyone in periods of transition,
06:48which I know we're constantly in, but I do think, like, it's so hard to be a kid for the
06:54kid and for
06:54your parents and to navigate, you know, I don't know, how to be decent and how to be kind and,
07:01like,
07:01like, anyway, you're, you must be observing this happen in your own home in real time, like,
07:09as your kids start to become who they are.
07:11Yeah.
07:12Does that trip you out?
07:14Yeah. I mean, watching someone self-actualize in front of you is such a trippy experience in so
07:22many ways. Yeah.
07:23You know, on this side of it, like, being the parent, you just want to not do anything that messes
07:28it up. Yeah. So that's, that feels like a lot of responsibility. I do feel, like, very lucky. I feel
07:36like the relationships that my family have with one another, like, very earned. You know, we couldn't
07:42always understand each other as well as I think we do today. And who were you closest to growing up,
07:47would you say?
07:50It's actually a very interesting question. I'm not quite... You know, my mom and I had the hardest
07:56time as I grew up because I think, of course, we did. And the mother-daughter relationship is unique
08:04and I'm the only daughter. And my brothers and I were very luckily always super close. And I,
08:11and my dad, you know, we were, we always loved each other so much. It wasn't like there was any,
08:17kind of, we were always very lucky to be close, but it was just an uphill battle in terms of
08:26understanding each other. But I learned so much from my parents' willingness to deal with hard
08:33shit in real time, rather than sweeping things under the rug. And I think it's like, that's something
08:39that as I have grown up, I've tried to absorb and apply to my own, you know, friendships and
08:47relationships. And we get to now sort of like reap the benefits of fighting to love each other and
08:55see each other. And not always easy as it, you know, I don't know which household has like a super
09:02chill
09:02time, you know, every single day.
09:05Your parents were pretty strict, right?
09:07Yeah.
09:08What's something, when you think back about something you got in trouble for, like, what's the biggest
09:13sort of, like, what did I do?
09:17Yeah.
09:19It was, why did you fuck up that?
09:20Yeah, exactly. Well, that time, no, I just was concealing. I would like sneak out, sneak around and
09:27not just like out of the house, but just generally, like I wanted to, I think it's standard, just like
09:32as you're kind of developing and growing into yourself, you want to like try shit out and it
09:37doesn't always match. It doesn't always align with like, you know, the stage of life you're at. And I
09:43think if I were in their position, looking back now, I would be terrified, be terrified. Like, I
09:48don't know. I, I, that, you know, daughter from hell, the song, it's like a thank you. It's like a
09:53love
09:53letter to my mom and my dad, but it's really for my mom.
09:56It's really beautiful.
09:58Thank you. I, I think that kind of perspective obviously has come with time and that sort of
10:06apology tour that I feel like I've gone on in my family is like, I wouldn't at any other stage,
10:11except for at, you know, 26, like have the sort of perspective on just how many years I must have
10:19taken off their lives. You know what I mean? I think when you're in the middle of your adolescence
10:25and you feel so frustrated or resentful sometimes or confused at rules or whatever the thing is,
10:32like they don't understand you or whatever. It's like, you never know, you don't believe you're
10:37ever going to get to a place where it's like, I want to face, I FaceTime my mom six times
10:41a day or
10:41whatever. It's like, and now I just want all the time in the world. I want to be as much
10:46like her as
10:46I can be. And, and, and that song, while a love letter is also like this sort of scared confession
10:54of not knowing if I ever will live up to the woman that she is and, and wanting so badly
11:01to.
11:01And so very grateful for their patience, very grateful for the patience of all of my,
11:06you know, family and friends who tolerated me as I figured it out and continue to figure it out.
11:13So you started playing music when you were eight, you started playing the drums though.
11:19Yeah.
11:19It's not like exactly an instrument I would clock for like a shy kid.
11:23Well, we had a, we had like a shitty little like kids drum kit in the garage. It was like
11:28a,
11:28like with the Beatles decal on the, on the kick drum. It was like,
11:32Was it like a small, was it for a small person?
11:35It was for a small person. It was for a child.
11:37It was for a child. How did you, who, who got it?
11:39My dad got it and just stuck it in the garage. And I think in hopes that one of us
11:44would
11:45do what I did maybe. Yeah.
11:48Which was a true blessing for me because I, the first time I used the drum kit and like a
11:55real,
11:56in a real way was, was, was when I started writing music initially. And it was like
12:01in the self-deprecating world, I was like so angry having lost something and I,
12:05Oh, you lost an instrument. I lost a journal. Yeah. Your, your third grade teacher gave you
12:10a journal. She did. Teacher Amy, shout out. And I lost it. And I was so devastated because it was
12:15like, she got me into the practice of writing. Anyway, so the drums were there. And so I used
12:20them and I loved the way it felt to make sound that matched the feeling. Shortly after I started
12:27playing the drums, I started playing piano. And I, I, for a little while had this amazing music
12:34teacher, his name was Michael Lord. I would cry before he got to the house and I would cry after
12:41he left. I was so scared of him. Oh no. He was amazing, but I was so scared. I wanted
12:48to impress
12:49him. And also I was so afraid of playing music in front of people, which remained true for me for
12:57a
12:57long, long, long time. And, but he was, he was amazing. I didn't learn how to read music. I don't
13:03know
13:03if that was because he figured I couldn't like pick it up in a way that would be fun for
13:10either
13:10of us, but also like he, he, he taught me how to play chords and how to play songs. And
13:16he really
13:16encouraged me to like feel into the thing that I was playing, which I think made a very lasting
13:22impact. But anyway, here's a legend. You started off like really just writing things for yourself.
13:27And you've talked about how like you're, you know, even the way you sing originally was
13:35really connected to just kind of like a whisper, whispery as it was just, just for you. Yeah.
13:39How does someone who feels that way get to the point where they're putting music on line? Like
13:46how, what, at what point were you like, you know what, maybe this isn't just for me?
13:50Well, I honestly, and it's so crazy to consider how I thought of it then, but like having grown up
13:57with the internet and the way that we did, I think because posting online still didn't require me to
14:06be in front of real people, like face to face, it felt still as just for me as much as
14:13it did when I
14:14wasn't putting it up. And I think like I was late to the social media game. Like I wasn't allowed
14:19to
14:19have any of that until after lots of my friends at school did, but SoundCloud was this kind of
14:25loophole. I would go on SoundCloud and read all of the comments under every song that I loved and
14:32like every timestamp of every comment ever. I was just so kind of enamored by the community aspect of
14:38this platform and also like discovering musicians there. It was like such a thrill. And so then by the
14:45time I had my own account, it felt like this natural progression, like, do you know what I
14:53mean? Like it wasn't so, it wasn't, it certainly wasn't considered like I want to find my own
14:58community, but I think probably subconsciously there was something like that going on or yeah,
15:03I guess wanting to connect, but also like no way in hell would I have brought that to school.
15:08Do you remember the first time you posted a song, how you felt about like, were you like,
15:14you know, holding your breath or were you just kind of like, I'm just going to put this out there
15:17and like, I don't. Yeah. Like, how did you feel about it? I remember when I started like recording
15:22things and how satisfying it was to have like tangible evidence of doing the thing. I loved that so much
15:32and, um, it, it made me feel proud. And I think in the same way that journaling made me feel
15:37proud,
15:37it was like, because I wasn't leaning on anyone else to help me. It wasn't, I didn't require
15:42an adult to help me get from point A to point B. It was like so accessible. Um, even though
15:50they were
15:52in just such shitty recordings, it didn't matter. It was just, it was just that I had something that
15:57was mine. And, and it was really just all about the writing. Like, you know, there was, I had no
16:02ambitions as a kid to be a performer of any sort. The way that I understand your
16:09writing process and, and your music, which I love so much, by the way,
16:12that it really is for you. It's a way of processing things. At what point do you decide that that
16:18process
16:19needs to become like public? I was just such a fan of music growing up. And I do think that
16:26despite
16:26the fact that I couldn't have ever imagined myself being on a stage of any sort, it didn't
16:33excite me, not till I saw Lorde perform Pure Heroine when I was 13 or 14. She was a couple
16:42years older than me. And she was so embodied. It didn't feel like it was this shiny, far away
16:53thing. It was just her being herself. And it moved me to tears, like immediately. And prior
17:01to then, I wasn't like, this is something I want to share, but it was just my deepest love. And
17:07I
17:07don't know, I think sometimes when you feel so connected to something, when you're so passionate
17:10about it, it's almost like you're sleepwalking or something, the way that it bubbles up for you.
17:17And so that's kind of how I remember those choices being made, like not super consciously,
17:23not with the intention of hoping that an audience would find me, but just it was what I loved.
17:30I want to talk a little bit about what your sort of idea of the theme of Daughter from Hill.
17:35It does
17:36seem to be really about kind of a transition period. Yeah. And I'd love for you to talk about that
17:42a
17:42little bit. There's a line in Hit the Wall, which is face to face with every girl that I tried
17:50to
17:50play. And I think that that, in a way, outlines how I felt making this album. I think that this
17:58decade that I'm in right now of my 20s, it's this like inevitable period of transition. And I think
18:04like self-actualization in a way. And I feel like honestly, the truth for me right now is that
18:11what I'm appreciating the most about this time in my life is that in-between quality, where I feel
18:17like this album, to me, because it's the oldest I have been ever, it's the most mature I have felt
18:28like my music sounds. And I mean that just from a place of like, sort of more consideration in terms
18:35of the perspective from which I'm writing. Like I feel like in the past, I've been sort of sometimes
18:42careless in my writing in terms of judgments or recounting a relationship. For example,
18:51this album, I feel like I was really careful to try to have had experience being both the protagonist
19:02and the antagonist in each story. And I want, I want to live like more in the deep end of
19:11the ocean.
19:12And I think it's possible to, I'm learning that it's, it's possible to do that without like,
19:20surrendering sense of self, but really like coming from a place of like more big, kind of zoomed out,
19:27sort of surrender and like, curiosity, I suppose. And like, the theme to me is trying to paint an
19:38accurate picture of all of these different versions when you are in this decade where you are sort of
19:42one foot in a past life and one foot in the future.
19:46I feel like there's this impulse when people have a new project coming out. And this is, I think this
19:53is
19:54especially true of women to be like, this is now the real me I'm I've arrived. And the other means
20:01weren't really me before. I love that you're sort of resisting that narrative. I like to push back
20:08on this idea that like a woman in the public eye needs to have to create like a narrative arc
20:16for
20:16herself, you know, at every moment. So I love this idea of, of like, actually sort of celebrating in
20:23between period, you know, it's just what's real for me right now. And I like, I know, I have said
20:29in
20:29previous interviews or conversations I've had around my other albums, I have said, like, exactly what you
20:38just did, which is like, who was that? And now like, I'm here and I've arrived. Yeah, it's so hard
20:43to not.
20:44And I think, yeah, I think there's also like so much pressure, you mentioned specifically women,
20:49but I do think there was so much pressure for women to have to reinvent themselves in order to like,
20:54stay relevant or to create like a new image. There's this like, I feel really grateful to have
21:00grown up in this kind of era of artists, female artists who have advocated for just like, saying
21:09sort of like, fuck the box that people put us in and just, you know, make art that is reflective
21:15of
21:15where you're at and for yourself. And so I feel lucky that I get to have this sort of,
21:23yeah, in between perspective about my music right now as a result of everyone who has come before me,
21:29who has just been themselves and made that okay. Yeah, without like, having to dye your hair or invent a
21:38new sound or whatever. But it is the reality is that it's just this is just where I am at.
21:43And I think
21:43Aaron Dussner, who I have to shout out, obviously, who I made this album with, he is a real advocate
21:52for
21:53digging deeper and sort of chasing whatever it is that, you know, calls you to make things in the
22:01first place and rejecting the pressure of, you know, total reinvention is a real gift that I have learned
22:11from him as well. And so I he's been an amazing mentor for me, just in every way imaginable. But
22:17I
22:18think especially when it comes to like, listening to your own inner voice, listening to what it is you
22:24want to make, I feel like so much of this album exists because he would hear me do something and
22:31then encourage me to stick with that, you know, so so helpful. Very lucky. Yeah. Yeah.
22:36You didn't go to Long Pond at all for this. I did a bunch. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We made this
22:42album
22:43between Long Pond, Electric Lady. And then in London, we worked at church studios and at the
22:49Muse studios. Are you showing up with notebooks of kind of poetry, essentially, when you get to the
22:57studio or you get to Long Pond? We've got a really, in my mind, special way of working,
23:03which is that most of the things are written in the room together. I always come in with all of
23:11my
23:11doodles and Aaron also will have certain guitar parts or things on keys that he's saved or just
23:20is messing around with in the room on the day that catches my attention. Everything he plays catches
23:24my attention. So it's sometimes hard to be productive in one direction when I'm like,
23:29hello. I feel like a cat with like a laser. I'm like, um, but the way that we made all
23:36these songs
23:37felt like the deepest explorations we've done of sort of all of our impulses when we work together,
23:43which like the muse and the knife, for example, are, have these organic elements that came from
23:50something I had in my head that I would sit and play over and over. And Aaron would kind of
23:55study the
23:56way that I play it. And then he would build a world or, you know, songs like cold goodbyes.
24:03We just wrote that on one instrument. We recorded that, you know, one vocal while he played off click,
24:10like this kind of weird abstract thing. Then we've got these goth gothic folk guitar parts in
24:17what if it's right or in humming that feel like these weird trance like states that his guitar
24:26playing always like puts me in. And we've got like minibar and hit the wall that are like more pop.
24:31And then look at my life. It's like we, I writing to a pulse, which like I love doing with
24:37Aaron. And
24:47I also credit so much of how this record sounds like performance wise to having been on tour,
24:54you know, like learning a lot about my own instrument and, uh, and also like personal
25:01preferences and learning how I maybe want to use it when we go back on the road.
25:05I feel like if I do anything else, I'm going to mess it up. I feel like I'm going to,
25:08I'm going to put this one aside and like respect. I'm going to get another one.
25:11Go nuts. All right. What do you, I feel like I need to do a, a like Klimt-esque.
25:19Oh, incredible. The kiss inspired. Oh my God. Well, you're met ball dress.
25:23I mean that it was just amazing. How did Chanel did that?
25:27Did they come to you with paintings? Spencer Singer, who's my dear friend and stylist,
25:34he and I were sending like the portrait of, um, Agnes Lockbauer and the kiss.
25:41Back and forth for a while. And we were just so inspired by Klimt. And then they, uh, everyone
25:49at Chanel were so, they're just so brilliant that they then ran with it and they made something.
25:56So, I mean, I think it was my favorite thing I've ever had on my body and it was such
25:59a privilege
26:00to wear it for the night. Who have you played the album for? Has, have you played it for Taylor?
26:04Have you, I haven't played it for Taylor yet. Will you? Uh, I haven't, well, I,
26:10if we are in the same place in a chill way before, before it's out. Absolutely. Of course.
26:15I think of what's been amazing about this album generally is like,
26:19I've been very excited to play it for the people in my life and you know, the people that I
26:24love,
26:24you know, being off tour and living at home and really being able to be with my friends
26:30again for the first time. And like what truly feels like four years. Cause we've been torn since
26:36the pandemic. What feels like home right now? London. London. Yeah. And so like my little brother,
26:43Augie, um, living with us right now has been so amazing. Cause I love his taste. I love his opinions
26:50on everything. And so to get his feedback has been amazing. And he digs it. I must say what's made
26:58me
26:58happy is when people who know me well feel like the album sounds like me as a, and, and, and
27:06so that
27:07makes me hopeful that, that we're doing something right, I suppose. And you wrote,
27:15co-wrote a song with Paul. Yeah. Who I, okay. So I did. Yes, you did. I did. I loved
27:20your piece.
27:21First story last year. It was beautiful. Thank you. He is such a delight of a human. It's true.
27:29It's imaginary friends. How did it come about that you were like, let's, let's do this. Let's,
27:34um, not, um, just super naturally. I don't know. I think it's like,
27:38it's the easiest thing in the world to like, y'all are like hanging out together. Like you're
27:44just hanging out in the evening and you're like, let's, we're hanging out in the evening.
27:50No, it's just the easy, I don't know. There were, um, we, I feel very lucky to be
27:56generally inspired by him as a person and, um, by his brain. And it's just the easiest thing to
28:04make stuff together. Who did I do? Like, how did the imaginary friends seem? Like who?
28:09Um, I just started playing this guitar part. I, I do like making songs oftentimes, like,
28:17actually when I think about like all of the songs on this album, it's like, what I remember
28:21is the beginning getting that kind of like drug like feeling of like, it's happening. And then,
28:28and then it's over. And it kind of feels like this funny trance, like, um, that was the case with
28:35that
28:35song, you know, but also with like, what if it's right? And with hit the wall, I'm like, these things
28:40just appear out of nowhere. And it really like, every time that happens, it just restores my faith
28:45and whatever other powers that be are like, however, they're operating that allows not in the like
28:52corny vessel way, but just, it's such a thrill when music keeps coming. And I think because it's what I
29:01love more than anything, there is fear that it might never come again after you make the last
29:07song. And so no real clear, distinct memory of how that went down. But it's, um, we, you know,
29:15do that all the time. It's so, it's so much fun.
29:18You don't remember the night that you were like,
29:20I don't, frankly, like it would, I think that's what's like, lucky is like, it wasn't some extraordinary
29:25event. Like this happens. We're, we're very like a musical household. And so there's always
29:33something burning. I can't believe he's learning to play with the other hand for the, the beetle.
29:39It's been so, I don't even know how you, so amazing to witness it. He's like a,
29:44has he gotten an alien? Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I can't speak for him, but yes.
29:51Yes. He's better at guitar backwards than I have ever been at guitar my whole life. So
29:56it's demoralizing for me. I'm very, very lucky to watch it go down. And then it was kind of,
30:03you know, kind of like a nine to five. What are, when you're in London and you're
30:07working on the album and he's working on like, what does your day to day life look like?
30:12I'm super normal, super normal life. Like I've been lucky that I've made so much of the record in
30:19London and like writing from home for me has been like, it's been such a great feeling to
30:26be in one place again for me. I think like living such a peripatetic lifestyle has been confusing and
30:34hard on my body and, and on my brain, honestly. And I think on my like friendships and missing my
30:40family and my dog and all this. And so the, the, the gift of being off tour as much as
30:45I miss it while
30:46we are off, it's also like been a really lovely thing to be able to check in. And, and so
30:52for me,
30:53you know, day to day working at the studio or writing from home, going on a lot of long walks,
30:59catching up on reading, like seeing my friends and, you know, having Augie in London now has been
31:06really fun. And I'm just kind of savoring the rest of that time that sort of actually like
31:13sort of for the rest of the year is now a bit over. Like now I'm not really home again
31:17for
31:19a long time. So I've just been living in the glow of what that allowed me to remember, I suppose.
31:26Yeah. What are the next like few months look like for you?
31:29The album will come out and, um, that will be what that will be. And then I'm filming a movie
31:38this
31:39summer. Oh, we got to talk about that. I know. When does it start shooting and how did that come
31:43about? Helena Rain, who is a director, writer, just artist who I've admired for a long time.
31:48She and I, uh, three years ago got breakfast because we had a mutual friend who suggested we
31:55might like each other and we did, but, but that was the kind of extent of our hang. We met
32:03for breakfast
32:04here in the city. And it was like, I felt like I had known her for a very long time.
32:10It was this like
32:11witchy thing. And I love a good witchy breakfast. It's the best. It's the best thing. I just remember
32:17feeling very lit up my, her spirit. She reached out with the script to see if I would read it,
32:24which
32:24just that was where I assumed it would all. And I was just excited to be able to read anything
32:33that
32:34came from her brain. When I read it, it blew me away. And did you have to audition?
32:39Many, many, many times. Really?
32:41Many, many, many, many, many, many times. Oh my gosh. Seriously?
32:43Many times. And it was, that was like, I have never done anything like that before. And it was really,
32:48really thrilling. Cause I just, after the first one, I remember feeling like
32:52I was the luckiest person in the world today that I got to learn what that felt like,
32:56and that I got to read her material. Do you know when something like when you actually
33:00privately care about something a lot and you don't really want anyone else to know you do?
33:05Yeah.
33:05That's how I felt the minute I read the script, which is a really nice feeling. But anyway,
33:12and then every time there was another audition, it surprised me. And I again felt like the luckiest
33:18that I got to read more and more and more. And there was no world in which I ever anticipated
33:25the opportunity to, to go and do this with her. But I, I, I think in my growing up, um,
33:34I'm finding
33:35this, especially with, with women, that there have been people that I've been lucky enough to meet
33:40who make me want to go deeper across the board. And Helena is someone who, without question,
33:51makes me want to be a better artist, makes me want to know myself more, makes me want to take
33:56risks.
33:56And I think I was looking at this as like a, if I'm lucky enough to be really old someday,
34:04I want to look back and, and not like regret, like being too afraid to try something or.
34:15Yeah.
34:15But have you ever done any acting? Had you, were you, were you ever in like school?
34:20Well, school theater for sure. And I loved, and it's so funny. Like, I feel like my memory of high
34:25school is like not very clear, which is weird. Uh, but just true. And, but, but my favorite times in
34:32school were always tech week around the school play. And I think that's touring has kind of filled
34:38that space in my, in my life where I think being a part of a crew where everyone who's there
34:46is required to be there because their role is essential and everyone cares so much about the
34:51thing. And, uh, we're all responsible as a group for making something happen. I love that feeling.
34:57Um, I love to be a part of it. And I feel like I, with music, I'm the gatekeeper of
35:01information.
35:01And with this, I'm like, I am merely a cog in the machine. I am.
35:05Well, that's what, I mean, it's kind of funny. If an actor does their job well, then they disappear
35:11into what they're doing. Kind of, you could sort of tell something about who, who an actor is by the
35:16parts they choose to take and how they tackle them. But it's not the same as listening to an album
35:23where someone is as, um, expressive about their experiences as you are.
35:28I think with my music or with this album specifically, like,
35:35I would not say a hundred percent of this album is like autobiographical in the kind of diaristic
35:40sense that I have felt previous albums of mine have been where there's sort of like an inciting
35:46incident that has gotten me to sit down and write every song in the record. This feels more like a
35:51general reflection of like, you know, the time that I am living in right now, the friends that I have,
35:59who I learned from the just reflections of the past 26 years and where I wish
36:06I had done better or what I know to be different now. And I don't know, I, I, I can't
36:12speak for
36:13what it is to be an actor at all. But for musicians, like I understand, I think people,
36:18I think people even when maybe it's not true, people like to make songs, you know, specifically,
36:25like I, I was listening to Taylor's New York Times, um, interview recently where she was like,
36:32some people like treat songs like paternity tests. And it's like, right, right. Sometimes it's really
36:38not like that. Yeah. Sometimes we just use our imagination and, and use a song to process like
36:48even a dream or something. It's like, it's all, it's all, we don't really ever know. I'm doing a little
36:53Klimtian. This is ridiculous. We'll see. The other one. Are you missing the other one? A little bit.
37:03I kind of, I don't know that I, I hope you're not so horrified. You are so beautiful that whatever
37:09I've done is like, well, I love that you have this idea. Truly. It's so, it's so nice. It's actually
37:16really nice to talk to someone with like an activity. I just hope that like the Rolling Stone
37:22community don't think I suggested this because I think I have a shred of skill. Like I was scared
37:29that you were going to come and be like, no, certainly not. This is at home. Whenever we have
37:35people over, there's always pens and paper, like pastels out. And I, I love doing this is, this is
37:43honestly, I'm not, I have to say, I don't think painting is my medium. Like I would have gone
37:50pen pastel. Like, so just forgive me, but I, but I might have to, no, no, no. I'm loving,
37:56I'm really loving this and I'm, I'm enjoying doing your aura right now. I wanted to ask you,
38:01cause we just, well, we just had Noah Kahn. Yes. I'm so moved by him. I know. Well,
38:06so one of the things that he talked about with my friend and colleague was trying to move past this
38:13idea that art needs to come from a place of sort of suffering. And I, I was wondering what you
38:19think
38:20about that because a lot, you know, a lot of your songs, you know, even the uptempo ones are about
38:27kind of having, you know, maybe a bad time or feeling insecure or feeling like your feelings aren't
38:35being reciprocated or even if they are, shit's gonna inevitably hit the fan. Is that something
38:42you think about? I agree with him that I think kind of like the tortured artist stereotype is like
38:49not a healthy one. I also think I, you know, for me, I have always used music to process. And
38:57I think
38:58that, that my feelings in the past where I wasn't able to kind of take a step back in the
39:05moment and
39:06try to consider whatever situation I was in with like a bit more perspective and, you know, an attempt
39:13to right size things. It's like music was where I would dump all of that. And I, if I'm lucky,
39:18I think
39:19that will always be true. The concept of feeling like you need to be in pain in order to make
39:25music
39:26is probably a challenging headspace to live in. So I completely agree with that. And I don't want
39:33to be someone that needs to be hurting in order to make things that I'm proud of. I wasn't always
39:39hurting so bad while making Daughter From Hell. And so I feel grateful to have had a, you know, recent
39:48experience making my favorite album I've ever made with some perspective and balance and
39:56um, but the way that Noah has been
40:00talking about this album and just his experience in the spotlight over the past few years and
40:07his relationship to home and to self. It's like, I'm, I feel very grateful as a friend of his,
40:14as a peer and as a fan of his work that he's speaking so openly about everything that's hard
40:20and confusing. And I think he's such an important person. I think he, he is also a really like true
40:30kind friend to everyone in his life, but the people in the music industry that I know he knows
40:35and protects like he really does go out of his way to make an effort to, to do that.
40:40So you're someone who really sort of came up online, but has taken a lot of breaks on social
40:45media for mental health reasons. And I'm sure others, um, how do you find a balance of maintaining
40:53a relationship with your fans and not sort of letting that consume you?
40:57So social media has been such a gift and also has felt really unhealthy as I've grown up for me
41:05to
41:05spend much of my time there. I think the, the connection that I feel lucky enough to have with
41:12them is really nurtured when I get to be on tour and I, and I get to be in the
41:18room with so many of
41:19them who have supported my music from the beginning, or if I found it yesterday or whatever, like their
41:27story is with it. It's like, it's, it's this really amazing connecting factor for all of us. And
41:32I let that sort of be where I am with them. Cause I've heard you talk about touring as sort
41:39of like
41:40exposure there. Like it was something like totally exposed like that was something that you really
41:45had to get used to. Yeah. And it's still like that kind of energy output for whatever reason,
41:50for me in particular, like can be a struggle. Like it was at the beginning and it still is sometimes
41:56less from like a place of stage fright, but more generally from like, I am more introverted. I'm not
42:02someone that feels like I don't feel like such an elegantly social person really all the time.
42:09It's very lovely to talk to though. That's very nice of you to say. So are you.
42:13It's true though.
42:23All right. Shit. I'm scared girl. Do we do it at the same time? Countdown. Oh,
42:26but just don't be mad at me. I'm not going to be mad. I couldn't. You can be mad. You
42:30can be mad.
42:31I didn't mean to tell you how to feel. Okay. Ready? One, two, three. Oh my gosh. I love it.
42:39That's amazing. I love yours. I love yours, the style of yours. Wait, I actually love yours. Oh,
42:46I'm so glad. Are you a painter? No. Yeah, you are. No, I'm not. I feel set up. I love
42:52everything
42:52about this. What style would we say this is? Um, like blind contour adjacent, like trying to just
42:59capture your essence and your, the colors that you exude. You're so good, Alex. You're so good.
43:04And the way you even signed it, that should be like, that looks really real. Mine looks like,
43:09mine looks like I did it. Do we get to exchange? Do we exchange? Yeah.
43:15Here you go. This means a lot. This is so gorgeous. What, do you actually not paint? No,
43:21I really don't. What the hell? I love that you love it. Oh my goodness. Such an honor.
43:25You made my day. I love that you love it. I love it. I just love your style. This is
43:29awesome.
43:29Gracie, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for your time
43:34and for such thoughtful and generous questions. I love the album. Thank you. Congratulations.
43:41I'm so excited. Thank you. Thank you for listening to it and for the time. And this is
43:46then separately inspiring me to, you know, hone in my skill. Thank you to everyone here and Rolling Stone
43:54for having me and what a privilege. I'm going to frame it. Great. Perfect. Same. I actually am going to
44:00put this up. Yay.
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