- 6 hours ago
Apple TV's Emmy-nominated leading ladies came together for a chat about their recognized performances and shows, in partnership with The Hollywood Reporter. THR x Apple TV's Leading the Narrative: The Women of Apple TV event took over Spago Beverly Hills for a conversation among 'Margo's Got Money Troubles' stars Michelle Pfeiffer and Elle Fanning, 'Pluribus'' Rhea Seehorn and Karolina Wydra, 'Shrinking' actress Jessica Williams and 'Widow's Bay' scene-stealer Dale Dickey, moderated by 'Shrinking' writer-producer Ashley Nicole Black.
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PeopleTranscript
00:19I'm thrilled to invite these ladies up on the stage for an incredible conversation.
00:27Everyone looks so good. It's like a garden party in here. You guys look incredible.
00:32Oh yes, what a well-dressed audience. Wow. Everyone's pretty smokin'. Nailed it. Nailed it.
00:37Perfumes are smelling good together as a group. I was so excited when they asked me to do this panel
00:43because I genuinely love all of these shows and it's harder when you don't, you know? So I'm really
00:49excited to talk about them. But when they sent me this list of names, I was sort of like, I
00:54can't
00:54believe all of these performances happen in the same season. Because I remember like being
00:58a young woman and where you would get like one really cool female character per season. And
01:04to get all of these iconic performances in one is just like, my mind is blown. So my first
01:10question is kind of for everyone. Like as artists, what does it mean to you to play these kind
01:15of like very complex, messy, contradictory, very human female characters?
01:22Well, I think for our show, for Margot's Got Money Troubles, you know, Margot is, she's incredibly
01:29messy and bold. And that's what I was drawn to with the character. And, you know, it's also a show
01:38about
01:38people who are kind of easily judged, you know, from their choices from the outside world of their
01:43occupation or the way they dress or the things that they're, you know, the trauma that they're
01:48dealing with in their life, addiction issues. And I was just so really like moved being on the set
01:56of just the acceptance that we had for these characters and the sensitivity that we had and
02:03the freedom to be just completely raw and to go there and to be messy. And it is true. It's
02:12like,
02:12thank you, Apple, for putting these, you know, female characters, you know, on your screens. And I,
02:19that's also a reason, I mean, of course, in film, but I just, I love TV. I love doing TV
02:24because,
02:26you know, you also have, you know, eight hours, 10 hours to really like flesh out and,
02:30and dive into a character and the nuance of it and the intricacies, you know, intricacies of it. And
02:37we, we, we got to do that on Margo and David E. Kelly was our writer and he's just, you
02:42know,
02:43phenomenal. I mean, he's David E. Kelly. So yeah, Michelle knows. He's pretty good at this.
02:48Yeah, he's very good at this. And particularly, yeah, a little bit.
02:51Female, right, female voices. Yeah. I've just been so bowled over by the, the female performances
03:00on, on television. And I mean, you know, honestly, they're just really owning TV. And so I was so
03:10excited at the opportunity and I, they said, oh, there's this book and there's this part that
03:17everyone thinks only you can play. And I was incredibly flattered, but also, I don't know,
03:27maybe a little insulted at the same time, but I love, I mean, I just fell, I just fell in
03:32love
03:32with her on page one and there really wasn't a lot in the book. She was really fleshed out quite
03:39a bit
03:39in, in the show in such a, such a beautiful, complicated way. But I did, like, like Elle is
03:45saying, I loved how fierce and how messy and bold and kind of fucked up that she is. And, and
03:55how,
03:56you know, I, I love how complicated all and flawed all these characters are. And, and, and, and it
04:03really reminds me of that, that Robin Williams, that famous quote where he says, remember that
04:10everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about and be kind. And that kind of,
04:16for me, sums up the show and the message of this, of the show. And I'm really proud to be
04:22a part of
04:23it. Well, my character's not messy. Yeah, there's no flaw in stealing someone's ex. I think Karen gets a little
04:30messy with her,
04:30but she's still not messy. I think stealing ex is kind of messy. I don't know. She has a reason.
04:36She has a good
04:37reason. Um, I mean, it's, it's true. Like all these performances are just so beautiful and being a viewer and
04:44being present for your character has been so incredible. And I mean, yeah, as though she has, she was really
04:50not
04:50messy. I mean, she is, but she's not in the, in the sense of a regular human being, right? She's,
04:55she has this virus
04:56that makes her be more content, unflappable and pleasant, and she's the whole world. And so it was
05:02fun to, to step into shoes of someone that has to withhold all these emotions that are coming at her.
05:10Um, for someone, especially for someone like me, that's, you know, I say, but it's true. I'm Eastern
05:15European. I'm very reactionary. I have big feelings all the time and I will tell you about them.
05:21Um, so, you know, holding that stuff in and, and, um, was such a fun ride and, um, and just,
05:30yeah, stepping into someone that is so blissful and, and kind and no matter what, I'm just being
05:36in unconditional love before your character all the time. It was beautiful. And it was, it was fun to
05:40play someone that's never been done on TV before. Right. So it's so original. And, um, and what's been said
05:48that I really love making heroes, good guys. What did he say? What did he say?
05:52Well, he wanted to write more, some more good guys, people that are striving to actually be a
05:55good person against the odds. Yeah. And I love that. It's so beautiful. And like, you know,
06:00your character's job is just so beautifully played and, you know, you're a reluctant hero.
06:05Thank you. Yeah. I'm done. You guys got chemistry. I love it. Um, uh, I would echo what
06:16everybody here is saying. I would also say that, um, part of what I get empowered by on,
06:21on sets as far as like the actual work that we have to do is, is to have sisterhoods. And
06:27I've
06:27met most of these people and been dying to meet the ones that I haven't. Um, but, um, just, I,
06:32I want her to soar. She wants me to soar. Um, uh, and there, I don't care about like a
06:39piece of pie
06:39that you have to hang on to, like make a new pie, like just make a whole new pie, you
06:42know? Um,
06:43um, so I've really, uh, loved being around so many powerful, amazing women. Um, but in addition
06:49to what everybody else is saying, one thing that I've noticed working with, um, Vince Gilligan,
06:53who's amazing is he, he's drilling down on, of course, the most interesting characters are going
07:00to be, um, ones with complexity and contradictions and, um, striving for a goal that there are obstacles
07:06in front of. And as you said, like in the past, it's just unfortunate that the, the women were not
07:12being given that breadth of character. Um, so when Vince is writing the women and when he talks to
07:18me about my character, the conversations are about, um, how truthful and honest can you be in
07:22the moment instead of how likable can you be? And, uh, we did a panel discussion recently because
07:28there's a lot of people, not a lot, but some people saying like, she's such an unlikable character,
07:34my character. Um, I disagree. Uh, uh, I think she's reacting the way, I mean, personally,
07:40I would have taken eight more episodes to get up off the floor. So I think she's kind
07:44of doing well really. Um, but, um, but Vince said on one panel discussion, he's like, it's
07:50so weird. Nobody asked me about Walter White being unlikable at any point. So I'm just kind
07:56of like, yeah, what do you, what do you mean by that? You're defining palatable, very specific
08:02to my gender in that conversation. That's very, we get that note a lot as writers and I go,
08:08I like her. I think she's funny. That's all people are looking for. Being truthful to what
08:13your character is going through is what's accessible and accessible is more important
08:17than likable. Yeah. Rosemary is neither sloppy or complicated yet. I'm waiting to find out
08:24what the hell happens in season two. No, Rosemary is very straightforward. And I, Patricia, as
08:30you know, the wonderful Kate Flynn, who's not over here yet from England. She's brilliant.
08:36Patricia's pretty complicated and messy and I'm here to pick it up and sweep it up around
08:41her. I have my qualms, as she says. Um, but it, Katie Dippold who created it, um, uh, is
08:48very, very specific about what she wants and she's always on set. We're always getting little
08:53notes, you know, uh, change it to this. And basically what I was given about Rosemary is,
08:59you know, she's the town gossip. She grew up on, she knows everybody. Um, she's seen it
09:05all, done it all. So she just sort of is, but, um, she knows about the curse on the island,
09:10but she's not dramatic about it, nor does she, like some of the people, nor does she poo-poo
09:16it. And you know, now the shit has hit the fan. So Rosemary might get a little more messy
09:21as here next season. We'll see. And that's all I know about that. Thank you. Uh, Katie
09:26Dippold is amazing. I used to watch her as a baby improviser at UCB. She's brilliant.
09:31Yeah, totally. So happy for her. She fought so hard to get this show gone, done. So it's
09:36great for her. Yeah. Yeah. She's so smart too. It's really cool. Anyway, I work with Ashley
09:41with Ashley on our show. She, she, uh, I play Gabby on Shrinking and that's Ashley's show
09:45that she's also nominated for. It's amazing. Um, so she knows a lot more about it than I'd
09:53like, what's gonna, what's gonna happen? Um, we're filming right now, but, um, I, I am
09:58so lucky to get to play Gabby. It was similar to, um, um, Michelle's experience, which is
10:04crazy to be like Michelle, like a soft show Pfeiffer. That was crazy. It's similar to Michelle's
10:09experience. Um, where, uh, when, when, when Brett Goldstein and Jason, uh, Siegel and,
10:16um, Bill Lawrence approached me to play Gabby, they didn't really know that much about her.
10:19But what they knew was that they wanted her to, um, play opposite Jimmy, who's Jason's
10:25character, who's grieving and Paul Harrison Ford's character, who's grieving and coming
10:29to terms with his Parkinson's. So she needed to be a light in this office. And so what happened
10:35was, you know, Bill was like, okay, we want you to do the script and then improvise.
10:39When you feel after we get the script. So I did that. I feel like the writers, cause you
10:44were on Lasso, I think for the first season, the writers were like looking at what I was
10:49doing and I was looking at what the writers were doing. And so then when you get halfway
10:52through the first season, you're like, Oh, that's Gabby. And so it was sort of like, uh,
10:57you know, who figured her out first. And, uh, now I just, you know, especially as a black
11:03actress, you just want the opportunity. Like there's so many amazing people that women,
11:10especially that don't get the opportunity. But with Gabby, um, she just is sort of an
11:15amalgamation of people just being like, yes, yes, yes. And our set is really like similar
11:21to you get to what you said. It's like, we love each other and we want to see each other
11:24do really well as actors. I want to see Michael Urie, you know, do an amazing monologue. So
11:30I want to set him up to succeed. And I feel like you guys have that in our, in our
11:35writers
11:36room too.
11:36And it's like, what makes the work possible? Like when sometimes your job is that you have
11:41to go up to Harrison Ford and say the stupidest thing you've ever thought of and ask him to
11:47say it, it's like this environment better be comfortable. And he gives you that look.
11:52Safe pick was a big hurdle. Yeah. He gives you that look. I get it often. Yeah. I know
11:56that look. Um, but you were talking about like getting the opportunity to play this character
12:01and Elle, speaking of, I just recently found out that you actually read the audio book for
12:07Margot's Got Money Trouble. Oh, really? Yes. And so I'm really curious, like when you first
12:11read the book, what made you think like this show needs to be on screen and also I need to
12:15play this character? Yes. Well, it happened. So it was a little out of order. I, I was
12:22sent, um, the book before it was completely published to, to option it. And, um, along
12:27with David's production company and Nicole Kidman's production company. And then we kind
12:31of realized, wait, we all know each other and we all really want this project. So instead
12:36of like going against each other, we should team up to try to get this thing. And A24 was
12:40with us. And then we brought that to Apple and found our home there. So after it was
12:47after I knew that I was going to play the character that they had asked me, Oh, do you want
12:51to
12:51do the audio book for it? Um, I've done an audio book before, but never for a character
12:57that I was going to play. So I actually, I found it really helpful. There was something
13:02to it. I'm like, gosh, maybe I want to do this every time there's like an adaptation. Cause
13:05I could totally feel myself like finding her rhythm and her inner thoughts. And a lot of
13:11the book is also written in like third person and it's just, um, very in her mind. So I,
13:17I really enjoyed that. Yeah, I know. And Nick Offerman told me that, um, he and Megan driving
13:23cross country, they, when he found out he got the part, they listened to the audio book and
13:27I'm like, Oh God, aren't they the cutest in the whole world? I'm obsessed. The cutest in
13:33the Megan Mullally and Nick Offerman. And the, and just the nicest, most amazing. Yeah.
13:38Those puzzles they do. And then they get dressed up like the puzzle. Yeah. They're, they're
13:43really, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he's my wife, Megan, you know, and so they do these, they do
13:51these puzzles and then they dress up. Megan takes him up and they, she dresses him and they
13:57dress up like the puzzle and they have a, then they take photos and they have a book.
14:04They have a book of this. Yes. I'm buying it right now. Get it. Get it. Get the book.
14:08I have to leave and go. They're like the super Saiyan form of a child free shuffle. I feel like
14:14this is going to be the best segue you've ever seen. Speaking of puzzles, Ray,
14:21first of all, Pluribus is like a TV writer's dream. Like we all watched it being like the scale,
14:26honey. Like it was incredible, but it also seems like a huge acting challenge. Like it's a show
14:32designed by someone who doesn't like actors that like so many of your scenes are alone or silence
14:39or like, it looks like very challenging to do. So when you see that on the page,
14:44somebody that wants to put me through my pace. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you,
14:47you went through them beautifully, but what was it like approaching that challenge?
14:52We get our scripts one at a time. So I never looked at it and I'm like, Oh, that's a,
14:56that's a lot to do. We, we shot over 11 months and it was a massive undertaking, but you, you
15:09take it a
15:09step at a time. I mean, I think anybody up here would say, you know, of course at first you're
15:15like,
15:15at first I'm reading the pilot and I thought, Oh my God, this is cool as shit. I totally would
15:19watch
15:19this show. And then I was like, Oh crap, I'm playing this. Like, how am I? Um, and you get
15:25scared and you think, uh, what if I can't pull it off? And what if I disappoint him? And he,
15:31you know,
15:31he wrote this for me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, those voices that are in most of our
15:36heads,
15:36I think. Um, but at the end of the day, it's the thing that protects me, um, from some of
15:43those
15:43thoughts as best I can is just put your head down and do the work. It's the same work as
15:48if it's a
15:48tiny part. It's the same work as if, and even the episodes that I'm in by myself or, um, or
15:54no dialogue
15:55sometimes, he still wants just as many story beats as if it was 10 people in that room and all
16:01dialogue.
16:01So you're, you're still marking like, what is she doing right now? What are the possible ways she
16:05has to get this thing she's going for? What are the things that are in the way? This heavy,
16:10heavy blanket of grief was a constant thing that we talked about. Um, so, uh, yeah, I mean, I,
16:17it's, it's thrilling to have someone like Vince Gilligan believe in you and Carolina can tell you,
16:23we also have a crew that incredible crew. I mean, whatever you're doing, um, show running,
16:29writing, acting, um, a lot of journalists here as well. If you were to walk into a room every day
16:35with something very challenging and 200 people are like, yeah, but you can do that. We absolutely
16:40believe that you're capable of this. It's an, it's an amazing thing. It shouldn't be an anomaly,
16:45but sometimes I feel like as performers, we do think someone's shooting at our feet and we need
16:49to dance as fast as we can and prove that we're supposed to be there. It's like that a lot
16:54of the
16:54time. It is. You're trying to prove you are of value. And instead he really does create an
16:59environment where, um, he's like, no, I believe you could do this. And then we, we worked a lot.
17:04The only other thing I'll add to that is it was interesting to me that after Vince and I talked
17:08about it a bit, when I showed up the first week in prep, he said, just so you know, I
17:12don't know
17:12exactly what the show is yet. And I knew he meant tone because he's very meticulous in the writing,
17:18but I knew he meant tone that he really, he loves to push genre defying stuff, but as well as
17:26like
17:26this tone that will vacillate from deeply psychological drama to comedy. And you know,
17:32we've all seen shows where you're like, I don't think those people are in the same show,
17:35or I don't think they know what they are. And he wanted to challenge that. And I knew he meant
17:39we
17:40need to see it sometimes to know. So we would do some of the same scenes as comedically as they
17:45could
17:45be, and then do them again. Like they're in a Mike Lee film and then see how can they hold
17:50water with
17:50each other. And I, I, I loved it. And he trusts his actors. He actually loves actors, loves them.
17:56He really does. But also, you can tell, you can tell. He's trusting. He's very trusting.
18:01But that's the beautiful thing. Cause you've, you've, you've been with, you know,
18:04on Better Call Saul, you've had the years of having that relationship grow and understanding of one
18:09another. And like, I remember when Vince told me one day on set, when I started, we started, I was,
18:14you know, I was very nervous and he asked for a lot of takes and thank God I've have Ray
18:18as my partner
18:18because after like take four, I'm like, Oh my God, I'm fired. This is it. That's a wrap. I'm doing
18:24a terrible job. And she saw the fear in my eyes and she was like, let's go talk. And, you
18:30know,
18:30she helped me to understand that he does it because he believes in you and he knows that you can,
18:34and he wants to challenge you. And that's the beautiful thing. He pushes you and challenges
18:38you to go further and further and he will never make you look bad. And that's the beautiful thing.
18:44Like you can go there and you can trust them that he will never ever make you look bad,
18:49but he will challenge you. And sometimes it feels very uncomfortable in your body. You're
18:53like, are you sure this feels, you know, but it's, then you see the result and you go, Oh my
18:58God,
18:58like, thank you for, you know, pushing me there. And, you know, and I just want to add one more
19:04thing. This woman right here works harder than anyone I have ever met. I'm telling you her prep
19:11is unbelievable. We would meet every weekend and every week we would work on our scenes,
19:17talk about our scenes. And then we would get to set, run our lines just to get it in our
19:21body.
19:22And then so we can really play. And she does it with everybody. If you're a guest star,
19:26anybody that's coming on a day, play your stars. There's nothing harder than go air.
19:31Hardest job in the world.
19:33Yeah. Yes, for sure. I'm like, I don't want it out loud to be like outside of their hotel room.
19:38You don't, you want her to do well. And also there's nothing better than when like number
19:42one on the call sheet actually is cool as fuck. You know what I mean? But it trickles
19:47down to everybody. And that's where like our environment where people come, they're like,
19:50Oh my God, it's so welcome. And it feels so safe. And that's only breeds best work. Cause
19:55everyone, you know, it's nerve wracking. And then when you feel like, Oh my God, okay,
19:59I can. Great. Let me, let me play more. Let me, you know, and she creates the environment.
20:04I've been my sister. I want to ask Jessica, cause you're now in your third season of playing
20:08Gabby and I feel like four. Well now we're doing the fourth. Yeah. This is the third that
20:12we're talking about. That was crazy. I was like four. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was like, I've been,
20:18I'm aware. Um, but I feel like everyone knows Gabby is like so funny and confident and stylish.
20:25I feel like 99% of the comments about the show are about Gabby's style. But in season three,
20:31we really saw this layer of vulnerability we hadn't seen before. Um, and I wonder if
20:37you could just talk about like what it is to play a character like that over time and
20:40to grow them over time. And that's the dream I think as a comedy actor, you know, I think
20:45a lot of dramatic actor, comedy actors can do drama, but I don't think a lot of dramatic
20:49actors can do comedy as well as a comedy person. There's just something about the sad clown that
20:55is like really true. And for that, you know, Ashley works with Bill Lawrence like every day and
21:00he's got like five shows right now. So he's always, you know, really busy, but we had talked
21:05about in season two, um, how I felt that Gabby would not like that Brett Goldstein's character
21:11Lewis was around. And Bill was like, I was like, I wanted to not be okay with it. He's
21:16like, maybe. And then he was like, okay, okay. All right, all right, all right. Okay.
21:20We'll get to it. And so he said at the end of season two, Gabby could have a conversation
21:24with Lewis and it just didn't happen at the end of season two. And he was like, I fucked
21:28up. There was enough time to land the plane. I'll do it at the top of season three. So
21:32we just waited. And, um, you know, and Brett, Brett, his part is like kind of the sweetest
21:38Muppet man. I mean, you talk to him all the time. He's just like a Muppet dude, a buff.
21:43He's like a buff Muppet. Muppet. Um, he's a very alarming person. Uh, but what I was really
21:48excited about the opportunity, honestly, again, it's like, you don't, you know, especially as a
21:53black, a six foot tall black actress, you just, you're hungry. Like to me, I'm just hungry.
21:57I'm just sort of like, put me in the game coach. However, it was nice that the white
22:02guys at the top gave me an opportunity to do that. You know, there, there's, and for
22:07better or for worse, the white dudes at the top are kind of making the decisions about
22:11what performances make it like we need allies. And that was one of those where being on a
22:17Bill Lawrence show is really cool for that reason. But, and it's also like the symbiotic
22:21nature that I love so much in making television. Cause I'm in the writer's room being like,
22:24I don't like that Lewis is still here. I don't think Gabby would like it. And then
22:30like, eventually we get to both bring, you know, all the writer's point of views and
22:35yours and actor into one incredible scene. I didn't know that. Run home and watch it.
22:38If you guys haven't seen it, it's incredible. That was actually the black way that I said
22:41it as well from my end on base camp. So it's nice to know that we both had the same
22:46thought.
22:46Yeah. We're tag taping. I don't like that Lewis is up here. What is he still doing here?
22:51One of my closest friends, by the way, get him out of here.
22:55For Michelle, I like really love your character Cheyenne. I think she's like so
23:00funny to me because she's clearly like a deeply loving mother, but also is like a little bit
23:06afraid to hold a baby. And I just think like playing both of those at the same time is so
23:12interesting to me. And I wonder like when they did come to you and say, you're the only person
23:16who could play this part, like what really attracted you to it?
23:21Well, I'm from Orange County.
23:23Same.
23:24What, what?
23:25I'm from Orange County.
23:27She knows.
23:28Midway City. And I know this woman.
23:32And not that Cheyenne is only found in Orange County. You can find Cheyenne all the way.
23:39But I, I, I love, I mean, she's, you know, I love how damaged she is. I love what, that
23:51she's,
23:52I figure we don't even want to know kind of the life she was born into and, and how she
23:59had to claw
23:59her way out of it. And I, I, what it's like to be a single mom, you know, raising a
24:07young woman and
24:08wanting more for her than what you had and fighting fiercely for that. And, and also having
24:15pretty low self-esteem. And, and finally I get her to college. I'm like, yeah, we made it. And then
24:24look what happens. Um, and it's really, um, you know, at her core, she's just really, um, vulnerable
24:33and, um, is finally at a time in her life when she's saying, no, I deserve better than being with
24:42a drug addict. You know, I deserve better than having someone who's going to abandon me. And, um,
24:50um, and so she's, she's really trying and she's really heroic in her very flawed and messy way.
24:57Um, and, um, yeah, so, you know, she was pretty, well, she was, you know, we were, they really
25:08fleshed her out, um, you know, throughout the, the, the series, which really surprised me. Um,
25:14and I was, um, yeah, a little bit like you. I'm like, oh, I gotta do this now.
25:20Um, and, you know, those initial wardrobe fittings where, I mean, that's just not me.
25:26And, um, you know, I'm the wallflower. I'd like to stay that way. And so, but it was so
25:32fun to be able to live vicariously through her and to see the looks on the crew's faces whenever
25:38Cheyenne would show up to the set and they were just, oh God, now look what she's wearing today.
25:43And, um, and, you know, everybody needs a little Cheyenne in their life and in their closet.
25:50You look like you had such a good time. Like, it just looked like you're having a fall.
25:54I mean, yeah. And, and, you know, look, having, when you were talking about the crew,
25:58just nodding my ass, my, my, um, head because it is everything. It is everything when you know,
26:07you just feel it, you feel the person behind the camera, you develop this sort of silent relationship.
26:14Um, and when you trust your other actors, um, when you have people supporting you, I never want to star
26:21in another movie. I swear to God, I only want to do ensemble pieces. I, it's so much more fun.
26:27We say like, there's nothing better than a crew laugh. Like sometimes you, you do all this work
26:32and then the crew laughs and you're like, ah, they're not easy to get or they're there before you
26:37and they're there after you leave. Or when you make them cry. Yeah. Those big burly guys behind
26:44the counter, you know, the dolly grip. They're like, um, Carolina, um, I think I read that you
26:52had kind of stepped away from acting before doing this part. And I wonder like one, what drew you to
26:58the audition? And then what was it like jumping right into the deep end of this incredible role?
27:04Well, I, it was a pandemic time. So the lockdown happened in, in, in March and in July, I was
27:11like,
27:12I think it's time to make some babies. I think it's a good idea to procreate. Um, and so I
27:17decided I was
27:1839 and I decided to start a family. And then during that time, my agent and manager dropped me.
27:24So I, that was very devastating. And then they are like, ah, poor choice. I'm like, what now?
27:34Um, and so then when that happened, you know, I decided, and it was very important for me to be
27:39a stay at home mom for the first two years of, of, of their life, just because my parents traveled
27:44a
27:44lot when I was a child, they weren't around because of communism and all this stuff. And, um,
27:50and so, and that was one of the reasons why they parted ways, or I think that was part of
27:54one of
27:55the reasons. And so then I just decided to have my second child. And, um, right away I was blessed
28:00to have him, my second, get pregnant, my second child. And then when I was ready to go back to
28:05work, I didn't know how I was 41 and I was really terrified. I was like, how am I going
28:11to ever audition?
28:13How am I going to get an opportunity for a job? And out of nowhere, uh, an email came through
28:19from a commercial agent that I was on their roster, but I was not working with them. And it said,
28:25Hey, there's this request for an audition. And it's all I saw was Anna. That's it. And I said,
28:31okay, well, what was it for? Like, you know, it could be, you know, something I don't want to be
28:36a part
28:37of. Um, and she came back and she said, oh, she said, okay, let me check. She came back and
28:42she
28:42said, oh, it's Vince Gilligan for Apple TV. Yes, please. Uh, and I went, oh my God, you know, um,
28:52it's been a dream of mine to work with Vince. And, and, and so I just couldn't believe it. I
28:56never had
28:56the opportunity. So that's how the audition came about. And, um, and I put myself on tape. I didn't
29:02know anything about the world. I didn't know anything about, um, my character, except that
29:07she was pleasant and nice. But I, when I read it, well, I love to do dream work. This is,
29:13I know
29:13this is a, sounds very like woo, but I don't know, girl, let's get into it. Let's get, let me
29:18tell you
29:18about the dream work. No, but I love, it's like tapping into the subconscious. So before you go to
29:23bed, you write yourself, you write to your character and reveals to you whatever you need from your
29:27subconscious to like, to, um, to play the character and you just, there's a whole ritual that goes with
29:33it. But it was beautiful that it's like lives inside you on a deeper level and you don't have
29:37to like, it's just there. Um, and I really love that kind of work. And so I did that for
29:42the audition.
29:43And I remember when I was taping with a friend, she said, you know, something is happening in this
29:47room. And I went, huh? Really? And, and I felt it. I understood her. And then I, then, uh, I
29:54sent it in
29:55and they told me I want to, they want to test me for it, which blew my mind. I just
29:59imagined like
29:59having all that time off, not having presentation. Then we were like, they want to test you with this
30:03thing. And then I found out the significance of this character. Then I read the first two scripts.
30:08It was just all just so surreal. And then I tested with this lady and you were so magnificent in
30:15the
30:15test. Cause you're just so nervous, you know, you're just getting so close and like, you're so giving
30:20and I felt like you wanted me to get the part. And you were, after each take, she was like,
30:24what do you need from me? Can I be like, do you like, tell me how to, you know, guide
30:29you so you
30:29can get this part. And you just, it's the truth. It's like the best thing. It's like a force,
30:35but it's like a really nice, no, it's really nice. Right. Thank you. Cause it's like, we all
30:38been on the other side of that one too. But you remember a lot of people that wouldn't do that.
30:43You know, when you have a female that's like supporting you and going like, you got this,
30:47like, let's do this. She was amazing. And Bialy Thomas is casting also. Thank you.
30:51Yes. Bialy Thomas is. Through all the handwritten files after they've done all their digital
30:55stuff, trying to find anybody. So yeah, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. But, um,
31:00but she did this incredible job at something because her role is so, um, deceivingly simple,
31:07but it's not, it's so challenging. And I was explaining to Vince when we were doing the screen
31:12test. I said, uh, cause he was looking for what he wanted. And I said, do you realize how
31:16challenging it is? As humans, we reciprocate the emotions. If somebody starts taking a conversation
31:22in a heated direction, in general, we get heated, you know, you have to like step back from it. So
31:26excuse me. And, um, and then as an actor, it's like one of our greatest tools, listen and respond,
31:31listen and respond. I was like, you're taking all of that away from her. She never matches my emotion.
31:35And we had, the scene was, uh, is it episode two? That's the grenade. It's the episode three,
31:40three. The grenade one. Um, and I am so mean and I'm so very, I'm likable. Well, I mean,
31:48she just, your partner just died. At that moment, at that moment, I believe she literally murdered my
31:52wife. So I'm a little pissed. Totally. Yeah. And my career is over. That's a media literacy. I think
31:59we have a mass media literacy issue because nobody should be mad at you for that. Right? I have a
32:04question. Yes. Um, what, uh, was the character description for Anna? She was, all I had was
32:11like, she's a pleasant human being. That was it. But that was it. So that, that's, it is funny.
32:21And so I don't know why, but I just like something I maybe because of the, obviously from the dream
32:25work, I got things that came up, but what I did a lot for this character is meditate a ton
32:30every
32:30single day, you know, to like, to remove the ego. Cause when you meditate a lot, the ego gets
32:36removed and you're more present. And I know it sounds all, but for me, I love it. And it works
32:41to me because she doesn't get upset when the other, but she also works in a different, it's like the
32:46vibration of where she lives and the others live is just unconditional love and peace, but you can say
32:52it's bliss, but it's so much bigger than that. You know, they're, they're, they're tapping into the
32:56collective in the most profound way. And that's what meditation does. It just connects you to the
33:02world with unconditional love where you're like, we are all one energetically and we are beautiful
33:07beings, you know, our ego and our conditioning fucks us up. But that's not, you know, that's
33:12She has a TED talk. I have a question. I feel like, well, I feel like I'm at Comic-Con.
33:17I feel like
33:20I do, I do. I'm like, and then you, and then, but I do feel, I'm like, honestly, I'm such
33:26a big fan
33:27of everyone here. It's very surreal to be up here with you guys. This is actually the, the coolest
33:31event Apple's had us do thus far. But I do feel like the, it's so interesting that you meditate
33:37into dream work before that really fits the character that you've got. And it is funny how
33:41sometimes when you have auditions and it just feels right, like your friend said, you know,
33:45oh, something's happening, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But can I tell you something too?
33:49I feel like me becoming a mom also changed me and I don't think I would be the actor that
33:54I am today if I didn't have my kids. It just made me understand, I have a, there's, the purpose
34:00for living is differently. Do you know what I mean? There's just so, I remember in acting
34:04classes when my teacher was like, if, you know, would you ever jump in front of a bus, you
34:08know, for a child? I'm like, I would hope so. Depends on how chill they are. He's very selfish.
34:14I was like, yeah, I like my life and, you know, but now I have a different understanding that I'm
34:19not sure I could have, now I would, you guys, okay? I would. What do you mean, like for my
34:24sister's
34:24kids? Well, how well do I know these kids? Are they nice kids? How much do they mean to me?
34:32Speaking of, like, do I hang out with these kids? Speaking of, like, trying to save people, I want to
34:39ask Dale about your character because I related to her so much because I felt like so often
34:44you're in the frame and you know the answer to a question that nobody is bothering to ask you.
34:49And it was just so intriguing. So I wonder, like, when you saw that role on the page,
34:54what did you think, like, oh, I can bring myself to this? Like, what attracted you to it?
35:01Well, I loved Rosemary's sense of humor in her sardonic way. I think the word is sardonic.
35:11She is an observer and she sits back and watches everyone. That's why she knows everything about
35:20everyone. But I also found, I think the, I did several auditions and then I finally had a Zoom
35:29with Katie and Hero and I, my first audition, self tape, self tape. Do you like them or not?
35:35I do not like them. I'm, I, I think it robs people. I think it robs a lot of, yeah.
35:42Yeah. But however,
35:44the one thing, this self tape I went in, this is what they, they gave me an adjustment, which often
35:49you don't get. So I was lucky. And the adjustment was something that worked and I, I found it and
35:55I get it.
35:56And then, then we spoke. But, um, I think the more that we worked on the character and that Katie
36:02talked to me, um, Rosemary doesn't show, but a deep insecurity of wanting to be liked. And I think
36:11often people that are the know-it-all or the tell-it-all or have the quips, you know, deeply
36:20inside. They're afraid that no one really likes them. I mean, it's almost at the end of every
36:25little, uh, thing that Rosemary says, which is here and there, little quips until that damn
36:30episode number nine. But, but I feel like at the end of it, it's always like, I can't do anything
36:37right today. Or, oh, well, I guess I'll go fuck myself, you know. And, and, and, and, I, it's very
36:45relatable. I, I just wanted to say, I, um, I've been watching everyone's shows and I'm, I'm getting,
36:55everyone's so wonderful and, and the characters are so complicated and it really is a beautiful
37:01thing to see after many years in the industry and seeing roles finally written. And, and now
37:08hearing you guys as people, um, it's lovely. And thank, yes, thank you all. May I touch your hand?
37:18Yes. I think that's the perfect place to wrap it up. I couldn't agree more. Each of these
37:24performances was like a gift to all of us as the audience. And we're so lucky to even hear you
37:28guys talk about your process. So thank you. Thank you guys so much. There's a lot. Thank you.
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