Overlooked Leaders Have a Hidden Advantage | Art Serna Jr.

Name: Overlooked Leaders Have a Hidden Advantage | Art Serna Jr.
Uploaded: 2026-08-11T20:16:19+00:00
Duration: 46 min 20 s
Channel: Workforce Alchemy

00:05welcome to the mason duke tech show and before we jump in this episode is brought to you by

00:11workforcealchemy.com the place where business owners and executives go to uncover and address

00:17profit leaks hidden in their everyday operations today's guest is art serna jr author of the

00:24unknowns rising and a systems change strategist whose work sits at the intersection of faith

00:30leadership economic mobility and enterprise growth art brings a bicultural perspective

00:36more than two decades of executive experience and a deep conviction that overlooked leaders

00:42can build organizations with both measurable impact and lasting purpose welcome to the show art glad

00:49to have you today mason it's a pleasure and then to be with somebody who's done multiple

00:55triathlons of iron man you you you encourage me to get out and do something with my life

01:02well now that you're up in wisconsin if you get if you get a chance the the iron man in

01:06madison is is

01:07a very spectator friendly event and the athletes feed off of the energy of the crowd and i've been

01:13there both as a well as a competitor as a volunteer and as someone who's been there encouraging my

01:19friends who are doing it too so it's just an amazing environment they usually do in early

01:22september so i don't i know you're up in the air for what you said five or six years up

01:26in milwaukee

01:26yeah yeah five and six years that's correct so a short trip to madison on a on a weekend in

01:35september it'll be fun you'll be very very inspired by what you see just people that it's inspiring just

01:41to be around that atmosphere if you haven't done it i'd encourage you to check it out i will take

01:45you up on it mason i'll have to send you pictures when i do

01:49so i know that your work focuses on people and organizations that are overlooked what did your

01:55own journey teach you about the hidden advantages that outsiders or underestimated leaders can bring

02:00into business so yeah so so mason my journey for your listeners has gone through government and

02:06non-profits and health care youth development consulting for small businesses and medium-sized

02:12businesses now i'm focusing a lot on global health care through spine hope but ultimately

02:18through every one of those industries i've realized a couple of things one is that problems

02:24take different shapes but they've got the same patterns emerge from every single industry i've

02:30ever served in but most important for me it's when you don't when you don't inherit the assumptions

02:36of an industry then you have incredible freedom to question them and that's what i've learned in my

02:42journey that having the need to reinvent myself going from one industry to the next very much

02:49disciplines you to feel like an outsider but bring perspectives that and ways of thinking about

02:57things mental models frameworks questions are much deeper that maybe a room isn't asking and i think

03:04that's incredibly important for the future especially as we're going through a massive transformation

03:10around the globe with not just ai but there's just demographic change right i think leaders who are able

03:17to come into a room and not be married to an industry's assumptions are going to be the most effective

03:24going forward what are your thoughts on people that are overlooked i was one and over time i think

03:31people that are overlooked happen and and i found this time and time again a lot of the work that

03:38i've

03:38done is working in urban communities with youth and next-gen leaders who often they they're not served

03:46well by systems the systems were not created for them and so what i've learned is that that does create

03:52though this incredible fire within some people call it like the fire in the belly to to push through

04:00like when you're when you're overlooked and and it's different than hustle i you know i talk about

04:05mason hustle culture um and and those things but it's different and i i remember just give you a

04:10personal example going through my journey in life i my both my parents were first to work in the u

04:17.s

04:17uh in their families they were pioneers they were entrepreneurial they did many different things

04:22we they were very young when we were born we lived in south texas they had a home first in

04:28mexico

04:28but my brother and i i'm a twin we were born in mcallen texas but we lived in mexico so

04:35they

04:35they lived in between two worlds you know their entire kind of working life my parents did and what

04:40what i learned is that they they had this passion some people call it the american dream but i think

04:46it's just a dream of every human being to develop something that meets the needs of your family gives you

04:52agency right so i think for when i think about the unknowns i believe they have a concept of future

05:00that burns within them and gives them the desire to break through whether it's the the glass ceiling or

05:07or break down through a wall so they're gonna put in the time to learn what needs to be learned

05:13and do

05:14what needs to be do and reimagine themselves from the inside out to accomplish that vision and i have to

05:20be true in my own life i love what you're talking about when you're talking about the fire in the

05:25belly because on a personal note i can relate to that as a as a child and i'm saying young

05:31age you

05:33know there was always that saying if you can't beat them join them and as a kid growing up in

05:38planes

05:39whatever just in the neighborhood my parents thought it was funny because i'd always say if you can't join

05:46them beat them and they just literally had a little poster printed that i they probably still have in

05:53storage somewhere from a long long time ago and i i'm talking when i was a little kid because i

05:58that

05:59where most parents would correct their kid and say no no the saying is the other way around mine didn't

06:04and i literally was raised to be a team player and cooperative and helpful and welcoming to other

06:10people but if someone was gonna i don't sound harsh but if someone was gonna cop an attitude with me

06:18like oh you're not good enough to be on this team or you're not tall enough or you're not fast

06:22enough

06:22or you're not strong enough or whatever i was like it's on brother let's go and that's right from the

06:28time i was little that instinct has been me you say i can't do this watch so i that's one

06:34of the

06:34reasons i was fascinated to have you on as as a guest today because i know this is in your

06:39wheelhouse

06:39and i and i think there are a lot of companies that are what's the phrase i want to use

06:47they are

06:48being guided and directed by the loudest most confident voice in a room that is not always the

06:56most competent so true so you know i i think about mason early on i think everyone every builder

07:05every leader every person of influence needs some type of vision to to that i think can learn from

07:12kind of the underdog story so for me early on as as a young man i i need it because

07:17my parents were

07:19that first narrative right i saw them work extremely hard and struggle through kind of the language

07:24barrier but still that didn't make them stop that that just they applied that over many different

07:31things that they did over time but like the michael jordan story for me as a middle schooler seventh

07:36grader new to america new to american culture that story was very important in my own life as as a

07:43you know a student athlete first of all and i i didn't even think that was know that was going

07:47to

07:47be a thing i tried out for the basketball team and at a at in on a whim after school

07:52a friend of

07:53i just said we should do this and i said okay let's do that he didn't make it i made

07:56it and from

07:57that point on all the way to my senior in high school i i was i was in basketball john

08:02varsity

08:03early all of that but that story of the underdog that michael jordan story it anchored me and it

08:09developed my own journey and over time you know i as a first to go to school in the u

08:15.s for my family

08:17became the valedictorian that was incredible it was a small school but it was a lot of grit

08:22a lot of desire to see something see a family that had agency to to accomplish dreams and but i

08:29think

08:29i'll come back to the story i think when you come from the outside you're able to ask questions

08:35somebody in the room may not be asking and that's incredibly important if you're going to form

08:41something that's innovative or disruptive and i think about back growing up there was blockbuster

08:46right and and then when netflix came on the scene no blockbuster had just assume you required stores

08:53and netflix just had a different set of questions what if you didn't need stores right so i think

08:59about stories like that and and i believe um next generation my cultural underdog those type of

09:07leaders uh are so needed right now in this environment of disruption when economies are

09:13changing and and nobody fully knows like the future of education the future of economies those

09:19leaders that can come and ask just deeper questions i think are just going to help us navigate this much

09:24better than if we didn't have them i love that they have the confidence to ask the questions because

09:29as you and i both know sometimes the same answer can be right or wrong at a different point in

09:35time

09:37sometimes are ahead of the game and they have a vision for what the future is and their answer

09:43gary vandercheck always says market to the time that you're in or market to the market you're in not

09:49what it's going to be or what it has been but market to what's going on but how many people

09:54or will

09:56executives or managers will tamp down or discourage questions like oh we've already tried that we've

10:01already discussed that where someone that's got the guts to say well maybe you did and maybe you were

10:09right then but this is now and what wasn't right then might be absolutely perfect now but they've got

10:17the confidence to ask the question and to go against the grain because they've always been going against

10:21the grain absolutely so how do you know when an organization is solving surface level problems

10:28instead of dealing with the deeper system that keeps creating them yeah i've learned over time

10:33to ask a couple questions but one that sticks true the most is if if you were to solve this

10:38problem

10:39perfectly like today will it come back in six months and if it does then that means you didn't really

10:47solve the root issue you likely just solve the symptom of the issue you haven't gone through you know

10:53i've used different frameworks or the five whys why why why why why five times until you get to a

10:59deeper root issue and and so that's one if if you think about that scenario that you you have the

11:07magic

11:07wand name the problem if you could fix it perfectly will it go away or come back and oftentimes these

11:14problems come back and and i've had the pleasure of engaging with really complex problems that have made

11:21me just a better leader both in education reform and health care access right and and just recruiting

11:27so recruitment and hr from like working for teach for america and trying to identify the the best

11:33talent to go into the hardest hardest classrooms in america right so you you develop the the the

11:41distinction of knowing how to identify talent and how to place it in the most most complex situations

11:47to achieve a better result so i i i do think that when you deal with that over and over

11:53again you

11:54begin to see the difference between symptoms and systems education being a great example so i know

12:00you've you mentioned you worked across government non-profit education and enterprise growth what is

12:05one leadership lesson that held up across all those environments yeah i would say that the capacity

12:11to build from the future is often not very well developed for leaders today and what i mean like

12:19you you being able because you get disrupted i mentioned blockbuster versus netflix right and and i

12:26happen to have the pleasure of being on a on a webinar with the founder of netflix and he shared

12:32the story

12:32about coming into the blockbuster kind of board of trustees and sharing this concept seeking to partner and

12:39he got left out of the room right at that time and blockbuster just wasn't ready at that time right

12:45so the leadership lessons for me is building the capacity to lead from the future being able to

12:50visualize and discern your environment not just three years ahead but 10 years 20 years 30 years ahead

12:57and then bringing that lesson into the present and being able to lead your teams from that angle i think

13:02is one of the the best leadership lessons that i've seen so apply to my journey so we i've worked

13:09with the largest school systems in states like in oklahoma city public schools and i was in oklahoma

13:13city would teach for america and what was true is that 50 51 of their student body at that time

13:18was

13:19coming from outside of of the traditional what you would think would be the demographic in oklahoma so

13:24they were hispanic latinos spanish-speaking families right and so that system wasn't created to to serve

13:30that need that demographic so the so they weren't doing it well right but when you can't keep up with

13:36that

13:37demographic change think 10 years into the future what what is changing and how do we need to as a

13:42system evolve both in talent strategy who we're recruiting the the type of content all of those

13:48things you need to have the capacity to lead from that future today so that you're ready to either

13:54cease opportunity or not get disrupted by a competitor that's keeping an eye on that kind of future

14:01readiness when you may not be those great points the the i mean stephen covey you say begin with the

14:08end

14:08in mind yes but you have to well when is that end and you're you're extending that out further than

14:16most people are willing to think and i love the way you're working backward with that how do you

14:20approach building something that can outlive your own direct involvement you know i i thought about

14:24this question actually deeply writing the book the unknowns rising and i think it comes to me about

14:30purpose you've got to determine getting beyond strategy and really doing an internal audit mason

14:37around what is the purpose or i mean i think simon sinek talks about your circle the golden circle

14:43right your why your deep personal why and i think when you consider building something that outlives you

14:50you you have to be peel the onion and be deeply familiar what what makes you tick as a builder

14:58as

14:59a company ceo because what i'm finding and when we were trying to reinvent the future teach for america

15:05had been around like for 30 years we were thinking what's the next horizon what is i teach for america

15:112.0

15:12in the next 30 years right it it was all about building purpose why do we exist

15:18why did we exist why did we first exist when wendy copp created the kind of the princeton thesis and

15:24saying we should have this core versus the next 30 years when she was no longer you know at the

15:30helm of

15:31it i think what i find it's it's about purpose it's about meaning and especially in the ai era i

15:38think

15:38that individuals need to re reintegrate to what what makes being human critical and distinctive

15:48and i believe that's about purpose so i i'm all about the work that i'm doing now how to equip

15:54the

15:54next generation of entrepreneurs and builders in the ai era and that requires them to be deeply

16:00philosophically introspective and identify as really deep questions of being and questions of

16:08why we do the things that we do and what makes me different than a machine that can do in

16:13a thousand

16:13times faster than i can i think that's deeply important in in really developing purpose beyond

16:21just strategy of how to get from point a to point b but why does that even going from a

16:25to point b make

16:26sense why is that important i found that to be incredibly helpful so what are the biggest mistakes

16:34leaders make when they try to scale impact without first strengthening the people in the systems

16:39underneath the work i think you get ahead of yourself right you find yourself eventually and

16:46the company that you build or the strategy that you build cannot sustain itself in that new environment

16:51because you've left people behind and i think especially i think that the tale that is told right

16:57now is many ceos that might be looking for pushing for efficiency right they're trying to bring an eye

17:04into everything and they're and they're trying to cut cut costs or cuss personnel then eventually you

17:11it's death by a thousand cuts you realize that you you actually have lost the capacity to stay ahead of

17:17the game from a talent strategy perspective because you've you've eliminated perhaps like all the entry

17:23level ways that you train the future talent and the next gen leader that is coming in you might assume

17:28right that they're the kind of the technological generation and they're just going to come in and

17:35know how to use artificial intelligence as an example or whatever the technology is and many times that's

17:40not the case because at least in the ai example what we're finding out in high schools all over the

17:46country and just k-12 is that they're not actually being prepared well to use that they're actually being

17:52told not to use the technology right and there's real ethical reasons sometimes why that is the case

17:57but they're not being taught how to create value to true human problems or business problems or

18:04community problems using this technology and i think if we don't do that we're not going to be

18:09set up to create value five years from now so those ceos to your question that that are leaning into

18:16scaling too fast without preparing the their people to succeed they're not going to be able to compete

18:24like you you come from kind of the personal development and just in your journey of triathlons

18:29right i mean i could not run a marathon like you right you've run i can't remember how many miles

18:34it

18:34was that you said oh one of your longest ones miles but you i imagine that took you developing the

18:41stamina the muscle memory to be able to sustain yourself in a marathon that long and if you don't

18:47support your people to get from the present like i'm actually scared of ai i don't know how to use

18:53it

18:53or whatever i have real reservations you're not and you don't prepare them adequately to do it you

18:59just bring tools they're not going to be able to create value with those tools and ultimately you're

19:04not going to be able to compete that's a very good analogy because you're it's true i mean what if

19:08like i did do a hundred mile ultra marathon back in the day and i knew all the tools i

19:15needed i needed

19:15body glide to keep from getting blisters i needed whole skin in case that didn't work i had to plan

19:20a b and c

19:21same with nutrition i had i knew how many calories per hour i could take in what percentage of those

19:26calories were protein what percentage were carbs i knew how many ounces i could take in i knew what

19:31kind of electrolytes i needed to have and how much and what what time and but i it's not enough

19:38to have

19:38those tools if i didn't know how to use them and yeah it's like if you don't eat your all

19:43your stomach's

19:43upset you don't eat it's like trying to drive a car with no gas it's not going anywhere like you

19:48have to

19:49so yes so i i i agree with agree and understand your analogy so you've described the importance of

19:57bringing people together who would not normally sit at the same table can you perhaps share a time when

20:02that kind of unlikely collaboration changed the outcome somebody said i'll start this way i like in

20:09global health care for example we're working at spine hope we're working with nations that are

20:14underdeveloped and as when i was going to university of texas one of my my undergrad was in astronomy but

20:21my minor was in latin american studies and i was infatuated with the question of why are some nations

20:27great and thriving and why are others not right and so that led me to questions of systems change and

20:32and economic issues but when i think about your question i think about the reality for nations like

20:39ecuador and nicaragua who may not have the capacity yet to handle very complex spinal surgeries for

20:51children either they lack the medical device know-how and incapacity or just the knowledge of they don't

20:57have surgeons at the necessary number to do this so for us it's about partnering with them so it was

21:05doing enough work relationally partnership wise that they would be willing to bring

21:11ngo spine hope from america based out of austin texas into their health care system so it's bringing

21:19players from the ministry of health right the governmental spheres local hospitals other ngos that are local

21:26have connections to families who are in need who the child ages 2 to 21 has a deep need for

21:33complex surgery

21:34because the the curvature of their spine is impacting their organs right or their growth

21:39and so bringing these leaders together around what what is a unique thing that they can do

21:45that if you pull their way this thing wouldn't work and so over time the benefit of that costa rica

21:51for

21:52example they had a gap of 200 surgeries that they were handling in one of the local hospitals in costa

21:59rica

22:00and they didn't have the capacity to fill that gap by bringing spine hope over four years we were able

22:05to reduce that gap from 200 surgeries to two by building their team's capacity and bringing our

22:13surgical teams our know-how our products from companies like medtronic into the fold and so we

22:21were able to accelerate growth in just four years time and we took actually a step back after that time

22:27because they had built that capacity over four years by bringing that group of people together

22:31around one north star key purposeful north star vision of we need to reduce this gap for children

22:39who are suffering right now from a spine deformity wow i i think of tony robbins and he talks about

22:49this

22:50reticular activating system exercise and i've seen him do it where he'll have someone sit in the room and

22:55he'll say hey i want you to look around the room and and close your eyes but i want you

23:00to remember

23:00all of the red items that all the items have red on them and then they close their eyes and

23:05then

23:06he says keep your eyes closed because tell me how many items had blue and they're like uh and they

23:11stall and they stammer and they stutter and they can't recall you know they might think of one thing

23:16but it's a general but but you told me to look for red and of course they can cite some

23:20red items

23:22and then he says open your eyes and they open and there's blue all around them

23:27he didn't trick them he didn't change stuff when they had their eyes closed but the bottom line is

23:31just because they couldn't see it it didn't mean it wasn't there yes and when people are you've got

23:38some people that are programmed to see the red you got some people are programmed to see the blue you

23:42got some people are programmed to see yellow you got some people are programmed to see green

23:45and if you can build a team of people that see all of those different things and then you're the

23:50leader your decisions are only as sound as the facts in which they're based but if you don't have

23:55people around you that are capable of seeing everything that's really there by default you're

24:00at a huge disadvantage so i what i firmly embrace the idea and the concept of getting different people

24:08together with different experiences and different perspectives because they can collaborate to create

24:13for those making the person or the people making the final decisions on important issues they have

24:20the ability to actually see what is there not just what they can see yeah wow so you you've just

24:29um

24:30i'm trying to think what else was i going to ask you in your opinion how should executives think about

24:34talent strategy in a time when people are burned out technologies moving fast and old career paths are

24:39breaking down yeah i think for one cautionary tale i would say for as i work with ceos thinking about

24:45how to how to support their small business from a legacy perspective right succession planning um that

24:50sometimes and and i was in a room with like ceos here in in the midwest and from more more

24:57of a

24:57manufacturing background and we were talking about the issue of talent and how to prepare for talent i was

25:02bringing my experience from working with youth and adolescents in the u.s and higher ed and we were

25:08grappling with the question of should you assume that kind of next generation people have you hired

25:14like a millennial or a gen z and they're coming into your team that they will just be technological

25:21savvy and know how to use all these tools and ultimately sharing data from like america's promise

25:27alliance of 1500 youth to say they're actually many of them 30 percent don't like a vast majority only 30

25:35percent felt that ai was helpful in their lives 70 percent actually didn't see the benefit yet

25:39very few of them were using it on a daily basis in any meaningful way and so i think considering

25:46that just if you just hire younger that's going to solve your being competitive technological wise

25:54that should not be an assumption by any means so you should be thinking through how how do you create

25:59those environments as a business owner and as a team leader to create conditions for learning for

26:06your people that they actually develop that grit and that that capacity to assess like you mentioned

26:14the example the colors to see what actually might be there that they can't so one one thing that i

26:20love

26:20about bicultural leaders as an example is just the growth that you go through by being in a in a

26:27in an

26:27environment in a room that isn't your native room right so you're you're looking for cues right because

26:34obviously everyone has desire to belong and to feel like you mean something in a room and and so you

26:40grow up reading people in different ways being maybe aware of colors that are in the room that you may

26:47not

26:47otherwise and just the language barrier especially if you speak two or more languages you're looking for

26:53cues you you you develop the ability sometimes intentionally sometimes unintentionally to present

26:59to situations going on and dynamics in the room that you other otherwise wouldn't have and i i think that

27:06that's important to think when you think about talent and supporting teams a building to be successful

27:12in the future and also retaining your talent creating those conditions for learning because what i found

27:18i'll share this one last thing on this question that i'm looking at young leaders right now because i i

27:24believe in the power of co-creation with current leaders so i've got a high schooler right now a junior

27:30and i'm helping him develop a a game he's developing a 2d platformer game indie game developer and he he

27:38needs mentoring and coaching but he's got all the passion like he he's the vision for the game is his

27:43he just needs some of the guardrails of how to bring it bring it to life and i believe that

27:48capacity of leaders

27:49being able to come alongside this next generation because you're not just going to stay for salary they're

27:54also looking at the disruptions out in the world and that they're trying to make sense is salary enough like

28:00working for a google or not or do i want to be at the forefront of what's deciding what the

28:05future economy

28:06would be and i'm finding that more of them are actually saying i need to be at the cutting edge

28:10where i have

28:11actually ability to lead and make decisions on how to form the next thing the next product the next

28:16service and salary isn't the best thing right now i think leaders who can understand that will be more

28:22effective at building teams along the along your our discussion about underdogs and people that are

28:29overlooked i i hesitate to go there but i'm gonna do it anyway because i think i feel compelled to

28:35be

28:35honest with the people that are watching and listening and i'm hoping that what i'm about to say is

28:40helpful to more than more than more than would be if i didn't say it but the underdog or the

28:46underprivileged i think back of the conversation i had with an executive years ago who was of a

28:54different race and he was amazing he was a generation older than me and we became very very close and

29:03we

29:03talked about not an opinion of dealing with racism but it's very specific observable matter of fact

29:12things that took place and were said and by anyone's definition what he went through was wrong and he felt

29:21comfortable enough with me to share it because we became close friends and when people talk about

29:27things like privilege i understand it but my response to him was not what he was expecting

29:35i said if i lift weights what makes me get strong do i get strong lifting easy weights absolutely not

29:43do i get the ability to run further if i don't push my push keep pushing the limits of my

29:51distance

29:51the duration and the intensity no it's resistance that makes you stronger and i worked for a national

29:59sales trainer right out of college at one time that told me you don't get hard rubbing up against

30:04the feather you have to have that resistance and i told him because he had developed a superpower and i

30:11would say this if he was sitting next to me he had a superpower he could go into a room

30:16and he knew

30:17what people meant regardless of what they said he had spidey sense and intuition and yes he'd pick up

30:25on non-verbal cues in addition to what was actually being said and how it was being said the body

30:32language the positioning the how the room worked he had superpowers when it came to communication and

30:39understanding what was really going on and i told him i said i haven't been through what you've been

30:45through again i'm a generation younger i said i i can't imagine what it was like i said but you

30:53actually have an advantage over me and he looked at me with a look of bewilderment like how i said

31:00you

31:00have superpowers that i don't have because you got experiences that i didn't get that allowed you to

31:06develop in ways that i never could and never have i said no you had the hard road to get

31:11those things

31:12those were earned and you did extra and you worked harder but you are a much more capable better

31:20executive than you ever could have been had you been treated just like me and i said you have

31:25superpowers i said so maybe and tony robbins always says problems don't happen to you they happen for you

31:33and problems are a gift i said so what might have seemed as something that was very difficult and harsh

31:40and completely unfair because it was it was those exact things that were the gift that allowed you

31:46to develop into who you are at such a high level now that you are the best version of yourself

31:52and i'm to this day i'm fortunate to call him a friend so when i think of people that are

31:58underdogs

31:59and overlooked i see people with superpowers that have been through experiences that i haven't been

32:04through and if i can build trust with those people and help them not think but truly feel like

32:11like mason gets me and and we're working together towards a common objective like when we can work

32:17together sky's the limit and i'm not not mean to think that i just just like the blue or the

32:24red

32:24example i gave earlier i can see what i can see but i'm not naive to believe that there's not

32:29all kinds

32:29of other things going on around me that are there that i just i can't see them

32:34doesn't mean i'm not there so i want to surround myself and i love your your concept of reaching out

32:40to embracing and and engaging people who other people overlook and it's not just i mean it could

32:48be culturally it could be educationally it could be economically yeah you become you just become a

32:55better person right i do have a worldview that that the uniqueness of each culture make make us

33:01collectively better right and then having the ability to do that when you get the chance to

33:06actually live in multiple places say in the u.s i've had the pleasure of being in texas oklahoma

33:11the midwest and or being overseas it just get it colors your ability to see the world

33:17and and i'll i will say this that when thinking about definition of success because that's that's

33:24important when i think about when i write about influential leaders or or high net worth leaders

33:29people often ask me well how do you make sure that those future leaders the future builders are not

33:36like egocentric and only seeking profits for their own like regardless of the process and and i i often

33:44tell the story of the underdog mason like i i for me when when you go through one system in

33:50the next

33:50like a health care system an educational system a corporate system that often hasn't again may been

33:58defined for you you look different you're an outlier you come in and and you you understand

34:04when you've been served very very well like customer service top notch and you feel seen from the very

34:10beginning and you feel welcome and you leave and you're like i just had the best experience i've ever

34:14had well we when you lack that experience and you're actually invisible when you're when everything

34:20takes effort right and you're in a system and you're daily feel that when you feel the difference

34:25between those two things sometimes you need to go outside of your context like go to another country

34:29or or come to this country to see the difference what but when you do that i often see that

34:35systems

34:35are made to maintain the status quo whatever that is right and and oftentimes in especially like in

34:43social impact initiatives many times we can make ourselves feel okay with the status quo and we only do

34:51enough good or allow enough change to make ourselves sleep better but not enough change to fundamentally

34:59disrupt the assumptions underneath the current system so so for example when you look at a system of

35:05education and it's graduating you know the majority 70 percent or more who cannot read and but we still

35:13tolerate it then i i said we we do only enough good to maintain the current system but the fundamental

35:20deliverables of that system do not change over time i feel that that that requires a different type of

35:26innovation a different type of fire in the belly right to come in and say i actually i'm not going

35:33to be

35:33okay with the current construct and i must i must build from another source and i i find that for

35:43you to do that

35:43you you actually have to bring leaders that are outliers that have been either through enough effort

35:50like you said tension or pain or experience that they're not going to be daunted by the challenge that

35:56it is to say get to the moon or get to the next you know get to the next horizon

36:01or or build something like

36:03netflix or a blue origin or or or something that's completely calci i like the story of juana lopez lara

36:11from ballerina a brazilian young lady to becoming kind of the youngest female billionaire and and she

36:20you know went to mit had this concept idea and with her co-founder built this incredible

36:24i think company of predictive markets a market that didn't actually exist in that sense that was a long

36:33answer but i just wanted to ground in in this concept of being an outlier serving in a system that

36:40usually hasn't been created for you and how you can be set up to actually bring something new and

36:46different that's necessary to change and i love your comments i love your comments about protecting

36:51the status quo i've always said the pain is never too great for the people that don't have to feel

36:55it

36:55price is never too high for the people that don't have to pay it and the risk is never too

36:59great for

36:59the people whose necks aren't on the line and if the people that are in charge of these systems

37:05aren't feeling the pain they're not the ones paying the price and they're not not on the line if if

37:10systems continue that don't support the people that are really suffering what motivation do they have

37:15to change really change and change quickly because yes it's not them feeling the pain so true so what's

37:23your practical process for taking a big vision and turning it into an executive executable

37:30yeah people that can people follow that's what i meant to say yeah i've i've learned over time

37:37you know you learn from others two two key things so i i think about something called the three horizons

37:42and and then the core prime there's a book by chris mcgoff the the primes and there's one specific prime

37:50that he goes through five agreements that every leader in a room trying to do something transformative

37:56needs to come to agreement on and then those are exploring your ass is current what's the status

38:02of the current right uh defining what is the environment around you that you need to have

38:07contextual awareness about what is the stake if things don't change and stay the same right what

38:15is at stake the child's quality of life in the world right for the four spine hope uh what is

38:19it to be

38:20state that we define that's bold and and then lastly this is a strategy question what is the strategy

38:25how do we get from a the present and define the process to get to the to be state that

38:33is undeniable

38:34and it's going to transform the way we get there but so that's been extremely helpful to me and

38:39across all these industries since reading that core prime from his book the primes but i've added a layer

38:45of the three horizons when you think about horizon three what world deserves to exist and that's kind

38:52of leading from the future what world deserves to exist and that's fine hope we think about a world

38:58where no child that desires to live free from pain and needs a spine surgery that they should be able

39:04to

39:05access it that's the world we envision right and then horizon two what must happen in the next 90 days

39:10for us to make one decision that gets us closer to that reality and then horizon two is what are

39:18the

39:18assumptions that we need to explore and unpack in our current strategy to really get underneath that

39:26because i think oftentimes we we state something on a piece of paper or or on a strategic document

39:32but we do not scrutinize the assumptions behind it to unpack it to truly understand what bet are we

39:40making especially when you're taking a risk and i've learned over time when i haven't done that well

39:44that oftentimes that lack of intention in exploring the assumptions often get us in trouble in the future

39:52whether that's a governance issue right you you assume you can take take that risk when in reality you're

39:59lacking environmental awareness i think the last thing i would say here is that when you don't when you have

40:06this concept of diverse teams people from who might be outliers to come in to refine your thinking

40:12is i've i've heard you know that that mental model of the blind individuals coming in into a room and

40:19trying to describe the elephant and each of them has a different section of the elephant from the tail

40:24of the elephant to the trunk to to the main body or different parts and they're all describing this

40:29elephant and they're they're they're so committed to their view of reality that the description of the

40:35elephant is correct but none of them see the whole thing right and and when you're so committed to your

40:41version of the truth that you you're not willing to really push against your assumptions you just

40:47get less answers that are less perfect or less set up to move you forward certainly less useful

40:55yes so looking ahead what leadership challenge do you think executives are underestimating right now

41:01i think the the level of disruption that will happen as as ai becomes not just like the trend that

41:09it is

41:09now but actually the systems that will be foundational to this technology different industries actually

41:16being reimagined after it becomes more normalized that they're not well set up to have the talent

41:23readiness in their people to to do that to live in that world in that reality so i i just

41:30spend a ton

41:31of time right now like i said earlier with like young people right now understanding what makes them

41:37tick like the type of change that they want to see in the world is fundamentally different so like

41:43in teach for america the first 30 years what got young people in america at least to say hey i'm

41:49willing

41:49to take two years of my life and i know i'm going to become a business owner or an entrepreneur

41:54or a

41:55attorney or a doctor but i'm going to give two years of my life to education the the understanding of

42:02why they chose to do that 30 years ago is why very different than this next generation in this next

42:0830 years

42:09so for leaders who cannot keep an eye on like the changing motivations of the future workforce

42:16i don't think they're going to be well prepared uh to keep their eye on how to be how to

42:21thrive and how

42:22to develop companies that are actually going to be effective uh in in the new era and and have succession

42:27plans that that help them get there so i i i was in a room with with those leaders in

42:34the

42:34manufacturing age and many of them actually don't use ai at all in their day-to-day and they're they're

42:39near retirement they're thinking about what's the next succession the legacy of our company and those

42:44that cannot actually plan and not that they need to be the experts of ai right now although i believe

42:50those who in the next five to ten years are still going to be in business and making decisions i

42:56think

42:56they need to grapple with this reality of of how to let go of their current versions of their salute

43:02their solutions get infatuated the problem in the horizon of what does our problem mean in a world where

43:09ai systems have actually become normalized into reimagining the future of our industry that that's how

43:16i think about your question mason this is this is my favorite question and i usually i always save it

43:21for the end but with all of your life experience places you've gone the people you've seen the

43:27things you've done if and the people that are watching listening are typically ceos business owners

43:33executives and those who are aspiring to those roles if there was only one piece of advice that you could

43:39give what would it be and why i think you need to explore for yourself what i call the internal

43:43audit

43:44what is your definition of what human flourishing should look like in your lifetime and and i think

43:52when you do that your story will tell you what that powerful meaning and purposeful statement is for your

44:01life to become a few a leader of a builder a team so what i did for for my this

44:07part of my life mason is

44:09really looking through all of my like leadership journals and personal journals over years over

44:14decades and i was looking at looking what are the patterns of to that answer what is my definition

44:22of human flourishing and i applied it to my industry right and so now what i do now with spine

44:28hope and

44:29with cosmos renewed and supporting new leaders is heavily focused on there's a layer of family the

44:35strength of family part of that for me was cultural right there's a deep value around family cohesion

44:40family like support family definition and culture values and work hard work right entrepreneurial

44:48mindset and trying different things and then an eternal like a perpetual consistent commitment to

44:55learning so my statement of what does human flourishing look like is embodied in all of those things

45:02so everything i do now whether it's like my consulting business whether it's my passion if supporting and

45:10leading spine hope or building micro schools for future leaders are defined by that so my my

45:18recommendation for leaders in your audience would be to do that take that time to explore and unpack that

45:25onion for themselves so you talk about your business and your consulting if people want to know more

45:31about your book your consulting your projects that you're passionate about what's the best ways

45:37for them to what are the best ways for them to learn more and engage yeah i'll say two so

45:42one is

45:43unknownsrising.com that's where they can find kind of my personal journey my book uh just where i'm

45:48speaking and or hire me to speak unknownsrising.com and then two if they're very philanthropic or want to

45:55support human flourishing spinehope.org they can find information about our our events and what we're

46:01doing across the globe art it has been an absolute pleasure and i appreciate your time thanks for joining

46:07us today thank you mason pleasure

46:09you

46:14you

46:18you

Overlooked Leaders Have a Hidden Advantage | Art Serna Jr.

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