00:00Ms. Orger, if I could just turn to you. You were President Biden's pardon attorney, is that correct?
00:05I was the Justice Department's pardon attorney.
00:08You recommended, you made clemency recommendations to the White House whether or not to pardon inmates, is that correct?
00:13My job was to make clemency recommendations.
00:15And in that capacity, you recommended that the President of the United States, Joe Biden, grant clemency to all 40
00:22federal death row inmates, all of them, clear them out, correct?
00:27Sir, as I told Chairman Grassley, I'm not free to discuss the recommendations.
00:31Well, that's what your memo says. I mean, we have your memo.
00:34Your memo of November 4th, 2024 says, and I quote, disparity and undue severity of sentence, which are present in
00:43many, if not all of these cases, have been recognized as grounds for clemency.
00:46And you went on to recommend, in that memo and a series of other memos that are now recorded and
00:52public record, that the President of the United States grant clemency to murderers, rapists, and the most horrible offenders, all
00:59of them, clear death row completely out.
01:01I'm amazed you've been called here today. I'm absolutely amazed by it.
01:05But let's just talk about the people who you recommended.
01:07You talk about honoring victims.
01:09The people who you recommended get clemency and live at the expense and sufferance of taxpayers for the rest of
01:15their lives.
01:15Let's start with Dylann Roof.
01:17Dylann was a neo-Nazi who murdered nine African-American worshipers at a Bible study in Charleston, South Carolina, 2015.
01:27Do you remember this case?
01:29I do remember it very well.
01:30I would hope you did. Here's his victims. You want to look at them?
01:32There they are. Nine of them at a Bible study in a church, killed in cold blood.
01:40The DOJ knew from day one that he had decided, I'm going to quote from the prosecutors, decided to attack
01:46African-Americans because of their race.
01:49He further decided to attack African-American worshipers in a black church in order to make his attack more notorious,
01:57more notorious.
01:59And yet you recommended that he be granted clemency, live at the expense of taxpayers for the rest of his
02:04life, substitute your judgment for that of the American judicial system.
02:08Do you stand by that recommendation today?
02:10Sir, I'm not going to comment on the recommendations that I made, but I can tell you that Mr. Roof
02:14is going to die in prison as...
02:16Oh, he's going to live in prison for a very long time because of you, because of your recommendations.
02:21And here's what you said in your memo of October 30th, 2024.
02:25You said that actually Roof is not a compelling candidate for clemency, but you recommended it anyway.
02:29Why? Because he suffered from anxiety, you said.
02:33Right? He suffered from anxiety.
02:36Did it ever occur to you that maybe the family of his victims might suffer a little bit of anxiety
02:42because he marched into their church and murdered them in cold blood because he was an incredible racist and he
02:48wanted to get on TV?
02:50Sir.
02:50Do you regret it?
02:51I'm not going to comment on the recommendations that I made to the president.
02:54Let's talk about Robert Bowers, a man who regularly spewed such vile hatred of Jews.
02:59It's unlike anything I've ever seen.
03:01He barged into a Pittsburgh synagogue in 2018 and he shot everybody he could find, killing 11 innocent people who
03:10were there to worship.
03:12A federal jury in Pittsburgh unanimously recommended the death sentence after finding him guilty on 63 counts.
03:19Here they are.
03:21They're his victims.
03:23Take a good look.
03:25You recommended clemency for this person who went in and killed these people just because they're Jews.
03:32He killed the other guy, killed people just because they're black.
03:35This guy killed people just because they're Jews.
03:38A jury recommended that he be sentenced to death and you substituted your judgment for theirs and now he's going
03:43to live.
03:44Are you proud of that?
03:46Sir, what I am proud of is the fact that I took my job as pardon attorney extremely seriously.
03:54Apparently not seriously enough.
03:55You certainly didn't take the victims seriously.
03:57Then there's Jorge Avila Torres, who wasn't just a murderer.
04:01He was a serial killer and a rapist.
04:03Here is who he assaulted and killed.
04:07He sexually assaulted and killed eight-year-old Laura Hobbs and nine-year-old Crystal Tobias in a Chicago suburb
04:16in 2005.
04:17And then four years after that, he committed another murder.
04:21He slaughtered a fellow service member, Navy Petty Officer Amanda Snell, in 2009 while she was in her barracks.
04:28That's what he did.
04:30And you recommended clemency for this individual and now he'll live his life at the expense of taxpayers
04:38because you substituted your judgment for that of the American judicial system.
04:44Jury judges the whole lot and yet you're here to tell us that you're somehow a victim?
04:48I don't think so, Ms. Oyer.
04:50I think your judgment is astoundingly terrible.
04:53I'm amazed that this side of the aisle has called you.
04:57And I just ask my friends on this side of the aisle, do you agree with this?
05:00Is this what you want?
05:02Do you want these people to be pardoned and live at the expense of taxpayers for their whole lives?
05:08Do you want to excuse the murders of African-American churchgoers?
05:12Do you want to excuse the murders of Jews in their synagogues?
05:15Do you want to excuse the murders of these children?
05:17Because that's what she did and now she's online hawking products to try to make money off of it.
05:23I see you've got your own website where you put your face on baseball caps and mugs, thelawyeroyer.com.
05:31You're trying to make money on this?
05:33Sir, this is unbelievable, Ms. Oyer.
05:36And yet you say you're a victim?
05:38These are the victims.
05:40And you helped victimize them.
05:42And what you're doing is wrong.
05:43I hope every member on this side of the aisle will repudiate what you have done and what you stand
05:48for.
05:48Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
05:49Sir, I assume that your questions directed at me were rhetorical and that you're giving a speech.
05:54They're not rhetorical at all.
05:55I asked you to respond and you said you wouldn't.
05:57So what I did is I read to you what you have said.
06:00I quoted verbatim.
06:02And I'm happy to keep doing it.
06:04In fact, I'd ask now, Mr. Chairman, that this report, restoring and strengthening the federal death penalty report,
06:09be entered into the record.
06:10It contains information regarding Ms. Oyer, her recommendations, and the track record of all of it.
06:15The written records are here.
06:16I ask to be entered into the record.
06:17It'll be you.
06:19Ms. Oyer, take a minute to respond if you want to.
06:27Thank you, Chairman Grassley.
06:29I, under President Biden, just like under President Trump, had a job to do,
06:34which was to make recommendations to the president about how to best accomplish their clemency objectives.
06:39I put the utmost effort into doing that in a way that was consistent with the interests of the justice
06:46system
06:46and all of its stakeholders, which includes crime victims, as well as defendants, as well as family members,
06:53as well as judges, as well as prosecutors, all criminal justice system stakeholders.
06:59The process that I presided over was one that was beyond reproach.
07:04What's happening now with clemency is an absolute disgrace,
07:07and I'm sorry that I can't answer the questions about the specific recommendations in this public setting,
07:12but I would be glad to meet with any members of this committee who have concerns privately
07:17to discuss to the extent I can what your concerns are.
07:20Why don't you meet with the victims' families?
07:22Here's the disgrace.
07:23Senator Whitehouse.
07:27Thank you, Chairman.
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