- 17 hours ago
Brendan McCullum on his sacking as Test coach but continuing as ODI and T20 head coach
13/07/2026
Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK
13/07/2026
Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK
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00:04I wonder if you could clarify first of all how the end of the test job came
00:10about it said you stood down but also that you were gutted and you accepted
00:14the decision what was the play there? I got a tap on the shoulder and obviously I was
00:22disappointed initially well I am disappointed not just initially I am
00:26disappointed but at the same time I fully respect the decision we're in a
00:30results business and and our results weren't good enough and fundamentally
00:36it's time for someone else to have a go. In a broad sense how do you reflect on
00:41your time as test coach do you feel that you're leaving a better team behind the
00:46one you picked up? That's probably for other people to assess from my point of
00:51view I've absolutely loved the last four years I think I've felt incredibly
00:55privileged to be in the position that I'm that I've been in as England men's test
00:59head coach and and I feel over the course of 20 odd years in the sports the last
01:07four years been possibly the biggest highlight that I've had I've always
01:13been incredibly grateful for the opportunity I've felt humbled to be in
01:17that in that position and and fundamentally just wanted to try and get
01:23the best outcome for English cricket for for all those that support the team to try and get the best
01:28out of the players and get the level of performance that everyone was was wanting and and you know I
01:33thank everyone for their involvement their commitment and their investment and what we've tried to do over the last four
01:40and a bit years and I think fundamentally again we just weren't quite able to win those big series the
01:45you know the series against India series against Australia the two marquee series we weren't able to get the results
01:51in those and for that
01:53you know I guess I can only say sorry I guess by the fact you're here talking to us today
01:59you know we see that it's not a clean break you've you've had the tap on the shoulder but only
02:04on one shoulder you're still good is that how do you feel about the split coaching obviously you experienced it
02:11with with Matthew Mott at the start is there you know when you took it across all formats clearly that
02:18was the idea that you thought maybe it worked better one voice across the two jobs
02:22yeah look I think you know I'm super excited about the white ball side I think you know the T20
02:28side is obviously in a pretty good space at the moment the one day side we've got some work to
02:33do which I'm confident that we'll be able to to be able to continue to make improvements a lot of
02:38the T20 side are now obviously involved in the one day side as well so you know whilst it's a
02:44different game there's some nuances which are quite similar and we just need to find a way to be able
02:48to do it for longer across the 50 over
02:5150 over 50 over contest and you know I think of the opportunity in front of us I've got the
02:57enthusiasm for it I've got the encouragement to be able to go out there and try and get this team
03:05to a level that it needs to and I think you know with the World Cup not too far away
03:11we've got an opportunity to be able to get ourselves in a position where we're realistic chance of lifting the
03:17trophy for not just the guys in the dressing room but also you know
03:20all the fans that support this team as well that's where my focus is at the moment and I guess
03:27I'm quite fortunate
03:29you know Motti's a good mate of mine as well and you know he was probably a little bit unlucky
03:32that he didn't maybe get the contact time but he maybe didn't quite have the relationships when he first came
03:37in because he didn't get that contact time
03:40I'm in a fortunate position where I've had those relationships have been built over a period and maybe a little
03:46bit of reduced contact time it won't be such a big problem so you know there's lots to unpack there's
03:52still a lot of things that's still obviously pretty fresh and there's not even a test coach in place at
03:57the moment and so on when they are announced then we'll work collaboratively together to make sure that across all
04:04three forms of the game we're able to get what's right for English cricket
04:08and I think you know a week or so ago we were asking you about Harry Brooke as a potential
04:12test captain when you were test coach
04:15does your assessment of that change now that you're not in charge of that team are you going to be
04:19sort of scrapping for custody of Harry
04:21I think you know what I think of Harry I think you know my level of affection for Harry as
04:27a player as a person and also as a captain I think you know as a tactician he's as good
04:33as I've seen in the game at such a young age
04:37and he's clearly growing at great speed in terms of his leadership as well and you know I think we're
04:42a very privileged position with Harry in English cricket he's totally committed to English cricket as well he doesn't play
04:49any other franchise cricket around the world he's set his stall out with his commitment to English cricket and obviously
04:56the 100 being the marquee white ball tournament here in England I sort of throw that under the same umbrella
05:03of English cricket
05:05but of course I would like Harry to carry on and us working together and I'm sure myself and the
05:12new test coach will have a good conversation over it
05:16Hi Maz, we spoke to Richard Gould yesterday and he mentioned the conversations that have been going on for about
05:22a week or so
05:23I was wondering if you could give us I suppose the timeline of you know when those conversations started because
05:30obviously in that third test you're immediately into the T20 series so yeah just from your perspective how it all
05:37panned out
05:38Yeah look I think the actual timing of it is not really the most important because I think you can't
05:44understand a little bit of 3D chess at times where you can see what's unfolding and you can see how
05:49things work
05:49so you know I think from my point of view it was never about trying to deal in the void
05:54of the noise or the uncertainty around you know are you going to carry on in that job or not
05:59my focus was very much on trying to make sure that we could perform on the field you could make
06:05sure that you were able to detach that uncertainty
06:09and not allow other people to see what was going on and just focus on trying to get the best
06:15out of your team and stay focused on trying to get the results
06:18so you know the relationship with ECB has been outstanding I must say I think you know I've had a
06:24lot of incredible support over the last four years and particularly over the last 6 to 12 months from obviously
06:33Kesey and Richard Gould, Richard Thompson, the board, all those at English cricket
06:37it's an organisation which has been
06:42they have to get results too right and fundamentally I knew that when I took the job and so I
06:47totally respect the decision and it was done in good grace and we obviously moved forward in the white ball
06:54but you know I thank everyone for the opportunity that I had over the last four years in the test
06:58side
06:59were you able to I suppose make one last pitch to keep the run or did you?
07:05nah
07:05nah
07:09uh George, do you want me to get used to the mic?
07:12yeah
07:13let us know, Lawrence
07:15um, what's I going to ask you?
07:19you came into the job I guess without a lot of red ball experience as coach
07:24uh, I wonder whether you thought in the end that mattered
07:28and from that is there anything that you know now that you wish you'd known coming in?
07:34yeah there's lots of things which I know now which I probably didn't know back then
07:38I think that's just the natural sort of maturing and understanding and learning on the role
07:44there's a lot more about English cricket which I know now that I didn't know at the start as well
07:48built some very good relationships, a very good understanding of the broader structure within English cricket
07:53and it probably, in the last 6 to 12 months, 6 months in particular I think I've probably been across
08:00that a lot more as well
08:01um, so I think that's a benefit in terms of the white ball side moving forward that you do have
08:08a bit more depth to it
08:09um, for me when I took over the red ball job I know I didn't have any of that red
08:15ball coaching experience
08:17uh, I felt like I had experience being able to try and build teams and understand or develop cultures to
08:24try and hopefully
08:25buy into a vision or a style of play that you wanted to implement
08:29now I didn't always get it right and you know there's some good days but there was also some days
08:33which we we weren't able to achieve it and for that
08:36as the leader of the team and as the head coach and you are responsible for the environment and for
08:42the results and
08:43for that I put my hand up and say we weren't able to get there
08:47do you feel at all that the the method was in retrospect a little bit simpler
08:52I guess it depends on on your assessment of art for me it was never it was never the the
09:04terminology which was thrust out there
09:06it was never about that film it was never about scoring rates it was never about playing recklessly it was
09:11never about
09:12sort of trying to be cavalier in our in our way of going about things
09:17my method is about trying to build an environment and build a culture where people are able to be the
09:23best versions of themselves so that they can handle the pressure moments when they're at their highest
09:28we didn't always get it right and and I accept that um but the the motivation for it was sound
09:33um I think what I've understood a little bit more over over the last little bit is is that
09:41you need to ensure that the tactics are able to penetrate penetrate the arena as well so that
09:46you're able to compete with teams who are playing a lot smarter who are playing with a lot more
09:52understanding of the nuances of the game and make sure you're on par with that if not better and
09:57so I think we've seen a little bit in T20 in the last little bit just trying to be a
10:02bit more creative
10:03make sure we're pushing the boys to be stronger fitter faster and smarter about how we operate and make
10:09sure that we're we're able to to do that when the pressure's at its highest and you know that's we
10:14we didn't always get that right and again I put my hand up for that um but I think I've
10:18got some
10:18good knowledge around that stuff now and some good knowledge of English cricket and I've got the
10:22enthusiasm and and uh and drive to try and try and try and uh take this white pool side forward
10:28thank you Lawrence and then Nick in there um I guess it's fair to say that a big part of
10:34the
10:34reason you don't have the test job now is because you lost that series to New Zealand but it all
10:37started to unravel effectively after the the last night at Lord's stuff that was out of your control
10:43that night do you feel it's fair that you paid the price for something that was effectively triggered
10:48by other people's actions again I think Lawrence like for me I was I am I was the leader of
10:55of that
10:56group I was I was in charge of the team culturally in charge of the team tactically in charge of
11:01the
11:01team results wise as well and if you don't get the results being a results business fundamentally you get
11:08replaced and and I'm not unaccustomed to that I've been around this game for 20 odd years and I know
11:14that
11:14if if you ain't getting the results then then someone else needs an opportunity so I'll put my
11:19hand up for that and and accept that that it wasn't good enough Nick and now I'll come to you
11:27sorry
11:28you said it was thrust upon you do you think that basketball name gave a bit of a burden
11:35I really like the terminology of things as you guys are well aware um for me it was not it
11:41was never
11:41about that it was it was about trying to get the best out of these guys trying to initially bring
11:47some some joy and some enthusiasm back into understanding that these guys have options
11:51outside of playing for their country they have options which have a lot less scrutiny earn a lot
11:57more money and have a lot less demands on them and we wanted to create an environment on the back
12:03of
12:03obviously covert and some some some poor performances beforehand we guys were excited about jumping in
12:09car to drive to lords to meet up with the english cricket team and they were excited about taking
12:14on opposition teams and dealing with the scrutiny and being able to handle that
12:19and to ultimately want to choose playing for england over the other option which is a lot
12:25comes with a lot less um scrutiny around it so that was initially what we were trying to
12:30trying to create and then as we went along it was about trying to have an identity of how you
12:35wanted to play and to try and play with the sense of of freedom whilst also understanding big moments
12:43and try and transfer pressure onto the opposition and see how the opposition handled if they could stand
12:47up to you then then okay then i guess your methods well your methods but things evolve and things change
12:53and teams naturally you know people the personnel adjust
13:02and i think during that time we just weren't quite able to succinctly nail everything we wanted and
13:07hence when those pressure moments did arise in the biggest series i think that was fine in some of
13:12the other series but in the biggest series and the pressure was at its highest we just unfortunately
13:18we weren't able to achieve it and again for that i put my hand up
13:21i think that was more help did that work make it harder
13:27i'm not really into those sort of terminologies i'll see
13:31ali
13:35the conch
13:38yeah um i just want to do you think one of the hardest parts of the job i mean in
13:44terms of the
13:44team you inherited in 22 you had a lot of experienced players there and as those guys are gradually
13:50hitting their 30s and then dropped off that's the hardest bit of the job and actually bringing
13:54through the next lot because that seems to be as more retirements have occurred results have gone
13:59with them and maybe some of them i mean you obviously you talk a lot about there being talent
14:03in english cricket but maybe it's i guess it's more potential than talent is and that it's
14:08conversing that potential into outcome has probably been where you may have fallen short here
14:15yeah look i think all teams evolve right there's no one can play forever so there's always a natural
14:20period where you lose some experience and the job of the job of a coach is also it's not just
14:27to
14:28to get the very last bit of sort of performance out of your most mature players it's also it's trying
14:34to
14:34future-proof for the time well after you leave the job you're trying to ensure that you know for the
14:40next coach that takes over they've got a wider resource base to be able to pick from and they
14:45may pick different players and that's that's fine but at least you you're trying to leave leave options
14:50on the table and then you're trying to build depth and and resource within within the structure so
14:58it can be difficult to do that and ideally you have a kind of a nice molding period throughout where
15:06the experience drops off and then you get one or two younger players but they're still experienced
15:10players and it's not always perfect but you know that's the plan that you're working to and i do
15:14genuinely feel like you know the next the next coach and the next um period for the test side is
15:22is super
15:22exciting to have a look at the the amount of fast bowlers which have been developed developed are still
15:27very much um early in their careers but there's immense amount of talent there's there's obviously some good
15:33strong leaders um within the setup as well um you know there's you'll be there'll be different
15:41challenges for whoever takes over but i've absolute confidence that you know the freshness of them and
15:48and something else you know fresh ideas and a fresh look at things will with a good player base to
15:54pick
15:54from because we'll give them a good opportunity um do you sort of wonder whether i mean it's even
16:00supposedly wondering whether maybe if this change had happened earlier in the year that ben stokes might
16:04still be England test captain is that would that be a is that possible i think look i think stokes
16:11you
16:11guys have spoken to stokes enough and i think he was he was very clear about you know his head
16:16and his
16:18words had come to the end um i'm not going to speak on behalf of stokes for this but you
16:22guys have heard
16:23him speak enough about yeah sure and just from your point of view with the new test head coach coming
16:28in from your point of view how is that relationship going to work because there will be there will be
16:33times when resources will need to be divvied up um and also that you know players may get one set
16:38of
16:38messaging in one dressing room switch to the other format things are different that can we have seen
16:43in the past create confusion so how do you sort of from your side of it how do you intend
16:47to approach
16:47that and help the other person with their team yeah look i think once the new new coach comes in
16:53into play then um then we'll sit down and we'll work you know unpick a lot of the stuff and
16:59work out
16:59as you say you've got different staffing you got different players schedules are different obviously
17:03captain seat discussions there's a lot lot to unpack but as long as you both of our motives are going
17:09to
17:09be sound that's what's right for english cricket how do we ensure we give english create the opportunity to
17:15to get to the levels that are once across all three forms of the game so i'm sure that'll be
17:19a
17:19collaborative process and and i'll look forward to it when that time comes
17:30and in hindsight do you perhaps regret taking on that all-format coaching role at the start of last
17:37year not necessarily because of what you've done with the teams but i suppose just on your own time and
17:41your own resources because of the state of the schedule because of having to go you know for
17:46a bigger pool the amount of travel as well has that i suppose accelerated you getting to this point
17:52where you're now no longer test head coach uh no look i don't really from my point of view i
17:59loved it
17:59i absolutely loved the opportunity i never i never took it for granted um the enthusiasm with with which
18:07you every day you'd wake up because you know it's at the pointy end of the market it's a very
18:11privileged
18:11position to be in and you're dealing with some unbelievable players and and the stakes are high
18:18like that that gets you going it doesn't tie you out that gets you going so i absolutely loved every
18:24bit of it and and you know it is what it is fundamentally it was just the results weren't what
18:30what they needed to be and hence the decision was made and now my focus is very much on on
18:35the white
18:36ball stuff and and trying to get that to a stage where where we want we get to a stage
18:41where we're
18:41able to lift trophies and be a good representation of of the english people and and obviously all those
18:47that support this team and also i wish the the new test coach when when that does get appointed i
18:55wish
18:55them all the best as well there's a great bunch of lads in there um they're fiercely driven to perform
19:01and they're desperate for success as well and whilst you know you're disappointed that you won't be the
19:07one there sort of helping helping steer them it doesn't mean that you're not you're not going to be
19:11watching and be proud of the achievements that they have just on that as well because you've been
19:16through so much with them were you able to tell them yourself about you know i suppose the change
19:21in roles or did they find out yesterday through i suppose the media i didn't ring everyone but um
19:27there's been a few players that played over the last a while but i certainly picked off a um a
19:32few of
19:32the guys who have been around for a lot of it and and uh yeah it's been some great communication
19:38and
19:39again like just because you're leaving the role doesn't mean you're not dying like you're leaving the
19:45role and the relationships still remain in place and i'll you know always be there for them without
19:50overreaching at any stage respectfully i'll always be there for them if they need they need anything
19:55really whether that's anything to do with cricket or life in general that's that's how i work as a
19:59person i like to i like to operate like that and build those friendships and relationships that last
20:05long after you're timing the job i'm also mindful of the game tomorrow any team news yes easy to
20:14forget yeah right duckett bethel at the top um joe root harry brook joss butler sam curran will jacks
20:24uh joffra archer leon dawson josh tang and the divorcee thank you
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