Interview with a Killer Season 3 Episode 4
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00:23A terrifying home invasion leaves the owner dead, and the burglar too.
00:29Police discover a conspiracy, and one common denominator, a teenage girl with close ties to both men.
00:37Mama, Mama, Mama, listen, this is my fault.
00:42Now, she's a convicted murderer serving a life sentence without parole, even though she was never at the scene of
00:49the crime.
00:51I'm labeled a killer, and at the time I felt guilty.
00:55You feel less guilty now?
00:56Yes. I was in a different town at my mom's house asleep when everything took place.
01:02By law, as a co-conspirator, she's equally guilty as the trigger man.
01:07It doesn't matter that you weren't present, or whether you were the lookout, or the driver, or just the person
01:14that teed up the target.
01:15She claims she's a scapegoat for a robbery turned double homicide, even though she's the one who brought the victim
01:22and the burglar together, and set the stage for murder.
01:26Don't you have the blood of both these men on your hands?
01:51Don't you have the blood of both these men on your hands?
02:37It all began like a scene from a movie, a late-night armed home invasion in a small Texas town.
02:45The burglar and the homeowner opened fire on each other simultaneously and fatally.
03:08But this attack was not random.
03:12There's one link between the burglar and the homeowner.
03:15The victim's niece was the burglar's girlfriend, 19-year-old Amber Halford.
03:21Police found she conspired with her boyfriend to rob her uncle.
03:25After the two men shot and killed each other that night, Halford was charged along with two other suspects with
03:31capital murder.
03:32She opted to go to trial, even though a conviction carried a mandatory sentence.
03:38Life without the possibility of parole.
03:51Now 30 years old, she's serving her time in a Texas women's prison and protesting her punishment.
03:57We're here, Amber, to try and understand the mindset and motivation behind your actions in this case.
04:06Does that all make sense?
04:07Yes, sir.
04:08Why did you want to talk to us today?
04:10To get my side of the story out, you know, because, like, they made it seem like I am, like
04:18I'm some mastermind and stuff, and I'm really not.
04:21They got it, they twisted everything, you know?
04:24I'm labeled a killer, and at the time I felt guilty, but, like, over the years and how everything is,
04:31I'm not.
04:32It's like self-guilt.
04:33So I felt like I deserved to be in trouble.
04:35You no longer feel that way?
04:37No.
04:37You feel less guilty now?
04:39Yes.
04:40At the time, Halford was 19 and admitted her guilt in a police interview.
04:45I feel like this is my fault.
04:47She says with the passage of time, she's come to believe she's not responsible for her uncle's murder and that
04:53her punishment is unjust.
04:55I think it's a good point in time to have this conversation because now you're a full-grown adult, right?
05:01Mm-hmm.
05:01Um, hopefully older and wiser than that teenage girl that got you into all this trouble.
05:08Yes.
05:08Yeah?
05:09Mm-hmm.
05:09I want to ask you to help me understand the Hearst family.
05:14You come from a big, blended family.
05:17Yes.
05:17Right?
05:18Uh, and I'm still trying to map it out in my head.
05:21My mom's real dad was Russell Varner, and he wasn't in my mom's life.
05:26But she was still a toddler whenever my grandma got with her stepdad, so he raised her.
05:33And so that was my, my pa is what we called him, Paul.
05:36So my pa was Doug's brother.
05:40Doug Hurst also had a sister named Rhonda Hurst.
05:43Her son, Dustin Sonoha, is Amber Halford's cousin.
05:46So Doug is actually Dustin's uncle, but my great uncle.
05:52Halford would betray the family with a teenage boyfriend her parents rejected, 18-year-old J.D. Mulkey.
05:59How did you and J.D. meet?
06:01Oh, we went to high school together.
06:05He was a junior and I was a senior, and so we had some classes together, and we just became
06:10best friends, and that was it.
06:12After that, we were inseparable.
06:15There must have been a powerful bond, right?
06:19You said there's just something about him.
06:21Yeah.
06:22How do you explain it?
06:23He was my best friend.
06:24Just, I don't know, whenever we were together, just me and him, like, even though it was bad, it was
06:30good.
06:31There's, even to this day, I don't think there's going to be anybody that I love as much as I
06:36loved him.
06:38It sounds like your parents didn't prove.
06:40Not at all.
06:41Why not?
06:42No, because he was trouble.
06:43He was trouble.
06:44Trouble.
06:45You described him to police as gang-affiliated and air quotes, gangster.
06:51Cops called him a wannabe.
06:53Yeah.
06:54Yeah.
06:54Is that accurate?
06:55Yes.
06:56Now that I look back, yes.
06:59Sometimes good girls are drawn to bad boys.
07:02Is that fair?
07:03Is that true?
07:04Yeah.
07:05Is that what was going on, or were you both about that thug lifestyle?
07:09No, not me.
07:11That, I was just...
07:12Not you?
07:13No, I was, I was raised better than that.
07:16Like, I was in, like, 4-H, FFA, stuff like that.
07:19Do you think J.D. was dragging you down, Amber?
07:22Yes, now that I look at, look back at it, yes.
07:25You consider yourself a essentially good girl dragged down by a bad boy?
07:31Yes.
07:32Halford appears almost meek, and seizes the good girl led astray narrative.
07:37But is that just spin?
07:39Are you exaggerating the extent to which you were a good girl?
07:45No, I mean, I...
07:48Even though I did drugs and I partied and stuff, I was just, I guess, a little wild.
07:52But as much as robbing people and all that, I've never done that.
07:57This was the first time.
07:58Did you have a criminal record at that point?
08:00I had got arrested for assault, family violence, whenever I was 17.
08:05Family violence?
08:06Mm-hmm.
08:06Uh-huh.
08:07What happened there?
08:07Me and my sister got in a fight, and she, she attacked me, and I was defending myself,
08:13but they arrested me.
08:15But that's whenever I was being hard-headed and wild and wasn't trying to listen to anybody.
08:19Mm, did they arrest her?
08:20No.
08:21And what about J.D.?
08:22He had already been on probation.
08:24You told police at one point that you tried and tried to keep J.D. out of trouble.
08:29I did try.
08:30Is that really true?
08:30Yes, I did try, but by the time my mom got sick again and I just hit rock bottom, it
08:36was just too much.
08:37At the time, Halford's mother was battling a terminal case of breast cancer.
08:42Stage four breast cancer?
08:43Yes, sir.
08:44Mm-hmm.
08:45She was a relatively young woman?
08:47She was in her 40s when this happened.
08:50Oh, my condolences.
08:51Amber.
08:52Um, were you spending a lot of your time helping her?
08:56I lived with them at that time, so if I wasn't at work, I would, I was there helping her.
09:01Or she was with J.D., planning a life together and scheming for ways to finance it, because
09:08another life-changing event was quietly taking place.
09:11At the time of these crimes, um, is it true that you believed that you were pregnant?
09:17Yes.
09:18Mm-hmm.
09:18And that J.D. would be the father of your future son or daughter?
09:23Yes, sir.
09:24For the teenage mother-to-be and her baby's father, a motive comes into focus.
09:30Neither of you were exactly equipped for parenthood.
09:33No.
09:34Is that fair?
09:35Fair, fair.
09:35Yeah, J.D. had no job, and waiting tables at Cookies wasn't going to cut it, right?
09:42So money was an issue.
09:44It sounds like you didn't have a long-term plan, but you came across a certain opportunity
09:49involving a certain home owned by a distant relative.
09:55When did you first mention Big Doug's house to J.D.?
09:59We were driving around town because we always just rode back roads and smoked and stuff like
10:04that.
10:04So I was just showing him, like, hey, this is my uncle's house.
10:07My grandparents live on the other side.
10:09We used to own a trailer park that's right there.
10:11I was just, you know, telling him, like, it all just was in the family.
10:16It was all just in the family, and all fair game to Amber Halford.
10:21Soon, the young couple began plotting to break into her uncle's house and rob him.
10:26There's a term that comes up over and over again in the case record I want to ask you about.
10:31For people that don't know, what does it mean to hit a lick?
10:35It means to go and make some quick money, you know, rob somebody or do what you can to
10:41get the money.
10:42It's slang, basically, for fast money, easy money, usually by questionable or criminal means.
10:50Halford and her boyfriend had the means and the motive, and we're about to get the opportunity.
10:55I found out they weren't going to be there that weekend.
10:57We were in an argument, and I was like, hey, look, there's this.
11:01They're not going to be there.
11:02Do you want to go and do it?
11:04Amber Halford was about to hit a lick on her own uncle and set in motion his murder.
11:09Tell me what happened on the night of the first robbery.
11:19Back in March of 2015, Doug Hurst married his longtime girlfriend, Joy Handsome.
11:25They planned a trip to the beach to celebrate with some friends and family.
11:29Meanwhile, Amber Halford, her boyfriend, JD, and her cousin, Dustin, were making plans of
11:35their own to break in and rob her uncle's home.
11:39You've taken credit for that idea.
11:41For the burglary, yes, sir.
11:43Halford admits the burglary was her idea, but also claims she was being coerced by a
11:48controlling boyfriend.
11:49It's a contradiction she struggles to explain.
11:52Amber, would you say in that period that you were more leading or being led into these
11:58crimes?
11:59I was being led.
12:00Even though the idea to rob that house was yours?
12:06So how do you reconcile those two things?
12:08Um, I don't know how to really explain it.
12:13Like, I know that's something that he likes, so maybe if I could just let him do something
12:16that he likes, it would be okay.
12:18Even if it was criminal?
12:19Yes.
12:20Even if it was your family?
12:22I wasn't thinking of the repercussions.
12:24Word spread through the family that Big Doug's house would be unattended for the weekend.
12:29Halford sees the moment.
12:31Big Doug and Joy were together for years, but married only four days before the first
12:37break-in.
12:38Mm-hmm.
12:38Right?
12:39So that was not a coincidence, right?
12:42No.
12:42So J.D. and Dustin pair up to do this first burglary, which was originally your idea.
12:48You admit to that?
12:49Yes, sir.
12:49Did you plan on going into the house at any point?
12:52I was just the driver.
12:54Were they carrying out the plan that you made with J.D.?
12:57Um, I just knew that they were going to go in there and take whatever they could and come
13:01out.
13:02Right.
13:03But were they carrying out the plan that you and J.D. had concocted?
13:08Mm-hmm.
13:09They were.
13:09Okay.
13:11You drive J.D. and Dustin to the drop point.
13:14Were they armed that night?
13:16No.
13:17You know that for sure?
13:18Yes, for sure.
13:19And while they broke in, you just waited for word to come and pick them up?
13:24While they were in there, I was driving around making sure nothing suspicious was going on.
13:28They called me when they were ready and I went and picked them up.
13:31Something suspicious?
13:32Yes.
13:32Other than you all?
13:33Yes.
13:34You all were the suspicious ones, right?
13:37And then did they call you when they were ready to come out?
13:41J.D. called me and told me that they were ready and so I came over there and parked.
13:45How did he sound?
13:46Um, like he was like anxious, adrenaline running and stuff.
13:51You know, he was out of breath from running with the bags.
13:54I seen them running towards me and they were telling me to pop the trunk.
13:58Right.
13:58And they're running with bags and guns in their hands?
14:00Mm-hmm.
14:01Okay.
14:02Pop the trunk and go.
14:04Mm-hmm.
14:04Right?
14:05How did you feel afterwards?
14:07That was your first robbery.
14:08I was nervous.
14:10I wasn't, I'm not going to lie, I was very nervous.
14:12Dustin was nervous too.
14:14He was telling us to hurry up to get back to our grandma's house.
14:16Did you feel conflicted at all at that point for robbing your relatives?
14:21Um, no, not, no.
14:26The robbery yielded four firearms, two laptops and some costume jewelry.
14:32But it also revealed a tantalizing discovery in Big Doug's locked bedroom.
14:37Did they describe the treasure trove of guns that they walked into?
14:41No, not really.
14:42And I didn't know anything about the safe.
14:44Halford's uncle Doug was hiding a fortune in firearms.
14:47He had a big safe.
14:48But it didn't hold all of his guns, which, according to his son, numbered somewhere between 100 and 160.
14:57Mm-hmm.
14:57So there were rifles leaning up against the wall.
15:01There were handguns in the sock drawer and the closet and dozens and dozens of guns in plain sight.
15:09Mm-hmm.
15:09The three teenagers divided the loot, and Amber and JD set out to sell their share.
15:15Dustin kept two guns, and I believe he got a, you know, we kept two computers and two guns and
15:23the jewelry.
15:25JD was adamant on keeping the little handgun because he liked it, and I was telling him, you know, I
15:29don't think that's a good idea.
15:30And who would be in charge of selling?
15:32Well, he told me to see what I could do.
15:35You end up talking to a contact that you had, Michael Hargraves, about selling guns, right?
15:42Mm-hmm.
15:42And I was talking to Michael, and I was like, well, I don't know.
15:45I said I could probably get more, but I'm not sure.
15:48Of course, Halford knew just where to get more guns, her uncle Doug's bedroom arsenal.
15:53And for the second night in a row, she turned to her boyfriend.
15:58Told JD, well, if you can get it, then, you know, there's someone that wants to buy it.
16:03Now, JD has seen this gold mine with his own eyes.
16:07Mm-hmm.
16:08Right? And according to you, he's an aspiring gangster, so he must have been itching to go back for more.
16:14Mm-hmm.
16:14Is that fair?
16:15Yes, it's fair to say.
16:16Mm-hmm.
16:16Did the first score wet your appetite for more?
16:20I didn't want to do it again.
16:22She now says she didn't want to rob her uncle again, but it was Halford who found a buyer and
16:28told her boyfriend about it.
16:29When you and JD were discussing going back into the house, right, as tempting as it was, did it occur
16:38to you and him that hitting a lick at the same place twice on consecutive nights was a bad idea?
16:46I learned that from them, that you didn't do that.
16:49You didn't go back to back because it's too risky.
16:52It's part of the code, right?
16:53Yes.
16:54But Amber and her boyfriend were about to break that code, and this time, there would be a surprise waiting.
17:03Amber, tell me what happened the night of the murder.
17:07All right, no, Bart, yeah, I'm done.
17:35I'm done.
17:38And he wants you to call and find out, right?
17:41Did you make any effort to find out when your family was coming back?
17:45No, not at all.
17:46Instead, Halford instructed her boyfriend to drive by the Target house and scope it out for any signs the family
17:52had returned.
17:53You just told him, go back, go around there, and basically do some recon.
17:58Yeah.
17:58See if there's any signs of life.
17:59Mm-hmm.
18:00Right?
18:00I said, just drive by, see if the lights are on.
18:03That's really what I meant.
18:04And take somebody who won't hit licks on them.
18:07Mm-hmm.
18:08And that's just what J.D. Mulkey did.
18:11Armed with a stolen handgun from the first robbery, he and two teenage friends, Lawson Abram and O.J. McLennan,
18:18cased the house and found it in pitch darkness, just as it had been the night of the first robbery.
18:24The house might have been dark, but it wasn't empty.
18:27Halford's uncle Doug had been alerted to the first robbery and rushed back to secure the house, and if need
18:33be, to defend it.
18:35The stage was now set for a late-night armed confrontation between the two men tied together only by Amber
18:42Halford.
18:44Let's talk about the night of the murder, March 9th.
18:49Mm-hmm.
18:49Right?
18:502015.
18:51I know you weren't there.
18:53And where were you, in fact?
18:54I was in a different town in Fairfield at my mom's house, asleep when everything took place.
18:59Amber, tell me what happened that night.
19:02You've heard all the versions and all the facts that were established.
19:07Can you talk me through what you understand happened the night of the murder?
19:12From my understanding, they went through the same doors that J.D. and Dustin went through.
19:17The night before?
19:18The night before, yes.
19:19And there was a stool with the glass on it, so when they kicked the doors in, the glass fell
19:24over.
19:25It was booby-trapped.
19:26Yes.
19:27Lawson had told me that whenever they got in the house,
19:30all you could hear is, got you, mother f*****g, and they started shooting at each other.
19:36J.D. creeps up to the door.
19:38He's armed with the .357 that you guys had stolen the previous night, right?
19:43Mm-hmm.
19:44Followed by a voice.
19:46Some say the voice says, who's in my house?
19:50Big Doug later told his son that he said, get out of my house.
19:55Big Doug is armed, of course, and he moves into position to defend his home, right?
20:02Mm-hmm.
20:02This is Texas, after all.
20:04Yeah.
20:04Right?
20:05You don't go into somebody's house not expecting them to be armed and ready to defend.
20:11Mm-hmm.
20:11Right?
20:12Did you guys think about that?
20:14I don't know.
20:15J.D. must have been surprised when he sprung the trap.
20:18He's not a very experienced burglar, it sounds like.
20:22And now he's in way over his head.
20:25Mm-hmm.
20:26His only advantage, frankly, was his girlfriend's inside track.
20:30You helped him identify the target and obtain the gun that he was now probably gripping with white knuckles.
20:38Right?
20:39Mm-hmm.
20:39What do you think happens next?
20:41I don't, I'm guessing they ran out of the house.
20:44Well, no, for before that, right, Doug puts J.D. in his sights.
20:49Mm-hmm.
20:49He says, got you.
20:52And that might have been the last words J.D. ever heard.
20:57Mm-hmm.
20:57And then the shooting starts.
21:02According to the forensics, only the first shot from each gun hit its target.
21:09Two mortal wounds.
21:12J.D.'s accomplices, his friends, take off right away, right?
21:17And he staggers out of the house behind them through the doors with a .40 caliber bullet in his gut
21:27from Doug.
21:29He falls face down in that field in the soaking rain, 19-year-old boy.
21:36And the life drains from his teenage body.
21:41I'm sure you've imagined that scene a thousand times.
21:45Is that how you imagine it?
21:46Yeah.
21:51Inside the house, Big Doug is also bleeding out.
21:54Right?
21:55Have you heard the 911 call?
21:58I need help, man.
22:00I need ambulance, man.
22:01I'm bleeding everywhere.
22:02I'm dying.
22:03I need help right now.
22:05Oh, my God.
22:06I'm dead.
22:08Where'd they shoot you at, sir?
22:10In the stomach.
22:11Any idea who they were?
22:14I don't know.
22:14I need an ambulance right now.
22:16I'm dying.
22:17Oh, my God.
22:20When J.D. made it clear he wanted to go back, if no one was home, according to the record,
22:26you're giving him encouragement and help.
22:30Go by there to see if the lights are on and all that.
22:36Well, go by there tonight.
22:37Just be careful and take somebody who won't hit licks on him.
22:41Mm-hmm.
22:42Doesn't sound like you're trying to talk him out of it.
22:44Does it sound like you're trying to persuade him not to do it?
22:50No, but at that point, I was tired of him asking me about it.
22:53So I was like, just go, do what you want, because he's going to do it anyway, regardless if I
22:57said yes or no.
22:59Why didn't you tell him, don't be stupid?
23:02You told me you never hit a lick in the same place twice, baby gangster.
23:07Or just tell him that the family's on its way back, and so somebody's going to be at the house.
23:11It seems like there's a lot more you could have done to send this plot off the tracks, if you'd
23:20wanted to.
23:21Mm-hmm.
23:22But did you really want to?
23:23I didn't want to go back.
23:26But there's no J.D.
23:29When it came to him, once he had something in his mind, that's what he was going to do.
23:34Did you think about all the bad things that could, that were probably going to happen?
23:40No.
23:43Do you have issues thinking through the consequences of your actions, Amber?
23:47Yes.
23:47Still?
23:48Mm-hmm.
23:49How do you account for that?
23:51Why do you think that is?
23:52I'm very impulsive.
23:54Still?
23:54Yeah.
23:55Mm-hmm.
23:56More so as a teenager?
23:57Mm-hmm.
23:58Very much.
23:58Even at that point, right, after the first robbery, you betrayed your own family.
24:03Somebody finds out, you could go to jail.
24:06Mm-hmm.
24:06Putting your parents and your sisters in a terrible position with respect to the rest of the family, right?
24:12They're going to have to live with that.
24:14And now you have J.D. running around the streets with a powerful handgun that you guys stole.
24:22And now he's emboldened, and he's seen the golden goose.
24:26So, of course, he's going to want to go back.
24:29Did any of those probabilities not cross your mind, Amber?
24:33No, I wasn't.
24:35I didn't think anything about it.
24:37You get word in the middle of the night, right?
24:39It's gone bad.
24:41And J.D. was shot.
24:43Right?
24:44And you were, you said, asleep at the time?
24:46Mm-hmm.
24:47You start frantically calling and texting people to find out details.
24:51Mm-hmm.
24:53Talk to Lawson, text with him, right?
24:55He was one of the men that went into the house.
24:57He said that J.D. got shot, that he left him there, and they were, they didn't know what was
25:03going on.
25:04They didn't know if he was still alive or what.
25:07There was all kinds of police over there and ambulance, and he didn't know.
25:13And, I mean, he told me, like, what happened whenever they went in there and stuff, but I was just
25:18trying to figure out if J.D. was okay.
25:21Hoping J.D. Mulkey survive the break-in, Halford sends him a frenzy of late-night text messages.
25:28She reveals a very different persona from the good girl image she's presenting today.
25:33Do you text him,
25:35Doug, the type of s*** that would run up on someone and shoot them.
25:39Is that how you talked back then?
25:41Yeah.
25:41Who is that girl?
25:43I don't know.
25:44You don't?
25:45That's just who I was back then, who I was, you know, turning into.
25:51Her messages to the accomplice Lawson Abram further incriminated her.
25:55Did Lawson also ask you not to name him to police?
25:58Yes.
25:59And you said, I'm not saying s***.
26:02I am not a snitch, dude.
26:04My ass finna go to jail, too.
26:06Mm-hmm.
26:06Y'all finna see this white girl lose her mind and kill the mother s***.
26:12You're talking about your uncle.
26:15Who you set up and who J.D. murdered.
26:22What's your state of mind at that point in time?
26:25Well, clearly not good.
26:27It's not, I don't, I'm not thinking right.
26:31All I'm worried about is if J.D. is okay.
26:33I'm not worried about anybody else but J.D.
26:36Clinging to life, Halford's Uncle Doug was airlifted to a hospital.
26:40But she was busy pouring her heart out to her dead boyfriend.
26:43You say, I'm not going to forgive myself for this s***.
26:47He shouldn't have gone back.
26:49You don't hit a lick on the same place two times in a row.
26:53There it is, right?
26:54Straight from the gangster rule book.
26:57In these texts, you're not sounding like a good girl who's trying to reform her bad boy, are you?
27:05No.
27:06You're sounding very guilty.
27:08Mm-hmm.
27:08Incriminating.
27:09Mm-hmm.
27:10It's all my fault.
27:12It's my fault this happened.
27:14I shouldn't have said go back.
27:16I shouldn't even let the first lick happen.
27:20What does that all sound like to you now at 30?
27:23Craziness.
27:2510 out of 10 people, Amber, would read that and think you were fully involved.
27:30Or should I say, 12 out of 12.
27:33How do you account for that?
27:35I felt guilty at the time because if he wouldn't have went to the, wouldn't have been it the first
27:40night,
27:40then he wouldn't have known anything to go back.
27:43So I made, like, I felt guilty for that.
27:46And so I put a lot of blame on myself for everything that happened.
27:49But rightly so.
27:50Yeah.
27:51Right?
27:51I mean, he felt guilty because, frankly, you were guilty.
27:55Mm-hmm.
27:57Within hours, you're sitting in a police station being interviewed by detectives.
28:029.15 a.m. on the 9th of March.
28:06You're Amber Halford.
28:08I can tell by your emotional state that you know why we want to talk to you, right?
28:12Okay.
28:12Is that what about J.D.?
28:14Right.
28:16I don't know nothing.
28:18While Doug Hurst was fighting for his life in the hospital, Amber Halford was about to play dumb with detectives.
28:24I have nothing to do with this, like...
28:29Can we agree that you lied through your teeth?
28:43My dad was an amazing dad to specifically his stepchildren.
28:48He loved his stepchildren and his children, of course, but it just shows someone's character when they love their stepchildren
28:55as much as they love their own children.
28:57We have a very, very, very supportive family.
29:01You walk into our home, and you can feel the love.
29:05Pam Hurst's father, Doug, worked the rails to take care of his big, blended family.
29:10My father worked for the railroad for as far back as I can remember, at least 25 years, I'd say.
29:15My dad would come and stop the train behind our house and wave, and we would all go outside to
29:21see my father, even my little stepbrothers.
29:23He would do a special honk, and all of us kids would run outside as fast as we could just
29:27to see the train go by, and it's really special to us.
29:31It was, for Pam and the Hurst family, a time of joy, a beach vacation celebration of her father's new
29:38marriage, but it would be cut short.
29:41The last time I saw him, we were in Galveston on his honeymoon, and he gave me the biggest hug
29:46I've ever had in my life from anyone.
29:48He didn't want to let go, but no one knew what was going to happen that night. No one.
29:54The merriment ended when Doug Hurst got word that the family home had been robbed and decided to return to
30:00secure it.
30:01I can recall him not really in a hurry to go back, but being pissed, being very, very upset.
30:11Just shaking his head, saying, I can't believe this, Pam. I cannot believe this. I cannot believe this. Why? Why?
30:17Why are they doing this?
30:20I need help right now. I'm dying.
30:23Oh, my God.
30:23Change thing.
30:26All right, I'm...
30:30When Joy received the call, my dad was shot.
30:33They kept saying, Dad, Dad, Dad, Dad, and she wouldn't give me the phone.
30:36So I took it, and he's like, I just want to tell you that I love you, baby girl.
30:40I love you. I've been shot. That's all he said.
30:43With a bullet wound in his gut, Doug was rushed to the hospital.
30:47Pam was not far behind.
30:49Had my truck maxed out as fast as it would go the entire way, straight to the hospital.
30:54Oh, no, nuts.
30:56Meanwhile, another member of the family came under suspicion by police.
30:59When we first found out that Amber was involved, I don't remember where I was, but I do know I
31:06was thinking, why?
31:09Not family. I'm sorry, man. Do not hurt your family. Family first.
31:14It had nothing to do with this, like...
31:19I don't know. That's my boyfriend. They just got shot.
31:23We know a lot more than you think, you know.
31:25I've gone through his phone. I've seen your text.
31:28I was the first of three police interrogations.
31:31Can we agree that you lied through your teeth?
31:35The first time, yes.
31:37I didn't have nothing to do with this.
31:40Throwing up your hands, you're just lying.
31:43I saw a text where you said,
31:45ride by and see if the lights are on, okay?
31:47Yeah, I said, that's what I said.
31:49That was up to him. Ride by and see if the lights are on.
31:51That's yours. That's not me. That's your decision.
31:54I told J.D. Michael wanted more guns,
31:58and he was talking about going back,
32:00and I said, well, just go by and see if the lights are on.
32:03That was the end of it.
32:05I didn't know he was going to go back or not.
32:07That's really what I meant.
32:10But that's not what it looks like.
32:12It looks like you're plotting with him.
32:13And in the end, guess what?
32:16He listens to you.
32:17He actually followed your instructions.
32:20The lights are out,
32:21so we must be good.
32:23When somebody reads a text like that,
32:26it looks like what?
32:28It looks like, go do it, yeah, but I...
32:31My point is, you're sitting there saying
32:34you don't know none about you.
32:35I don't believe that.
32:37Interrogation number two, right?
32:39The next day, you're back on the hot seat.
32:41I have to say, you're remarkably composed
32:43for somebody who's, at that point,
32:46basically a murder suspect.
32:49I don't want to get in trouble for none of this.
32:51You're in trouble.
32:52Yeah, I know.
32:53You're in trouble.
32:54Your life hanging in the balance,
32:56and you're cool as a cucumber,
32:58just trying to save yourself
33:00at everyone else's expense.
33:02I wanted some guns.
33:04Yeah.
33:04That's all you need.
33:05I want some guns.
33:07Dustin did this.
33:08JD did that.
33:09Yeah, but I was telling the truth.
33:12They asked you,
33:13who are you trying to protect?
33:14You said...
33:14I'm not saying I was.
33:16You ain't protecting yourself?
33:17No.
33:18You're already here.
33:18You called.
33:19I know.
33:29You wasn't supposed to go there.
33:32Why am I sitting here
33:34fishing this out of you?
33:35Because I'm scared,
33:36because I feel like this is my fault.
33:39And everybody's saying it's my fault,
33:41but it's not.
33:42Man, you...
33:42Poor pitiful me.
33:44That's what we're seeing.
33:45She's ashamed that she got caught.
33:47That's what this is.
33:49Scott Rouse is a body language analyst
33:51and co-host of the popular web series
33:53The Behavior Panel.
33:55He trains law enforcement in interrogation
33:58and sees in Amber Halford,
34:00then and now,
34:01signs of deception and deflection.
34:04This face she has on
34:05is not one of sadness.
34:08There should be a gathering
34:10of the glabella up here,
34:11these little muscles here.
34:12If she was actually feeling sad,
34:13they should actually be pushing inward
34:15and upward.
34:16They're not.
34:17She's showing us the expression
34:19she thinks sad looks like,
34:21and that's not it.
34:23But this is a person
34:24who is a manipulator.
34:27She's very...
34:28She tries to manipulate David.
34:31Sometimes good girls
34:33are drawn to bad boys.
34:34Is that fair?
34:35Is that true?
34:36Yeah.
34:37Is that what was going on,
34:39or were you both
34:40about that thug lifestyle?
34:42No.
34:42Not me.
34:43That...
34:43I was just...
34:44Not you.
34:45No, I was...
34:46I was raised better than that.
34:48Like, I was in, like, 4-H, FFA,
34:51stuff like that growing up.
34:52But once I got into the drugs
34:53and stuff like that,
34:55it just...
34:55See, that's a resume statement.
34:57She's telling how wonderful she was.
34:59That wasn't me.
34:59I wasn't doing that kind of thing.
35:01I'm a good person,
35:02but it's because of drugs.
35:03You understand how drugs are.
35:04They ruin you.
35:05So that's...
35:06That's really manipulative.
35:08While they were in there,
35:09I was driving around
35:10making sure nothing
35:11suspicious was going on.
35:13Something suspicious.
35:14Yes.
35:15Other than you all.
35:16Yes.
35:16You all were the suspicious ones.
35:18Yeah.
35:18Yeah.
35:19We call it acting like a girl
35:20to a guy
35:21because she tries to smile
35:23and laugh
35:23even when the questions aren't funny.
35:25She's reacting to him as,
35:27look, I like you.
35:28This is great.
35:28Don't you like me?
35:29This is the manipulative
35:32personality type.
35:33And we're seeing
35:34in a very short
35:36little window here
35:37how she does it.
35:38Finally,
35:39in a moment
35:40that was probably
35:43never supposed to be
35:44part of that
35:44police interrogation,
35:46you pretty much
35:47confessed to your mother
35:48on the phone.
35:49You remember that?
35:52Mama,
35:54I told you the truth.
35:59Mama, Mama, Mama,
36:02listen.
36:04This is my fault.
36:07Mama, I know.
36:08J.D.'s dead.
36:09I learned my lesson.
36:10After four days in the hospital,
36:13Halford learned that her uncle Doug
36:14had also died from the gunshot.
36:16So I'm being charged
36:17with Saturday and Sunday.
36:19Eventually,
36:20Halford admitted being behind
36:21the break-in on Saturday
36:23but denied guilt
36:24in the Sunday murder.
36:25It's a fine line
36:27she's tried to walk ever since,
36:28including in our interview.
36:30When you were on the phone
36:31with your mother,
36:35adamantly declaring,
36:36this is my fault,
36:39that sounds like a real moment
36:41of truth,
36:42of reckoning.
36:43I felt guilty.
36:44Because you were.
36:46In most jurisdictions,
36:48an accessory to murder
36:50can be charged
36:51with the same degree
36:52of the crime
36:53as the principal offender.
36:56And therefore,
36:57you,
36:58Lawson,
36:59O.J.,
36:59we're all culpable.
37:02Under the law,
37:02I'm guilty,
37:03but everybody blaming me
37:05is what made me feel guilty.
37:06There's still that part of me
37:07that I don't feel guilty
37:10of what he did
37:12because he made the choice.
37:14He could have said no,
37:15he didn't have to,
37:16you know?
37:16That was his choice.
37:19It still feels like
37:21you're hedging
37:22on taking responsibility.
37:24Don't you have the blood
37:26of both these men
37:27on your hands?
37:35I think there was two of them.
37:39I need animals,
37:40I'm bleeding everywhere.
37:43When Doug Hurst died
37:44of the gunshot
37:45inflicted by his niece's boyfriend,
37:47the teenage girl
37:48was charged with capital murder
37:49for helping set up
37:50the late night home invasion.
37:52I'm going to probably
37:54be charged with blood.
37:55Okay, I'm also going to be
37:56charged with capital murder.
37:59It's called
37:59the felony murder rule.
38:01Anyone involved
38:02in certain serious felonies
38:05that result in death
38:07is as liable
38:09as the actual killer.
38:11Alford then faced
38:13a dire choice,
38:14admit guilt
38:15and take a plea deal
38:16or go to trial
38:17and risk a mandatory
38:18maximum sentence,
38:20life in prison
38:21without parole.
38:23I remember my lawyer
38:24saying that
38:26once it's life without parole,
38:28there's hardly any chance
38:30of coming out of prison.
38:31Alford was lucky
38:32to get a choice at all.
38:34The victim's family,
38:35her own relatives,
38:36approved not one plea deal,
38:38but three,
38:39each with a reduced sentence.
38:41All she had to do
38:42was admit her role
38:43in the crime.
38:44As long as she
38:45takes responsibility
38:46for what she did
38:47and owns up to it,
38:50we'll give her
38:51the least amount we can.
38:53She never admitted it.
38:54Why not take a plea deal?
38:56Because they were
38:56offering me murder.
38:58They wouldn't do
38:58anything else.
38:59The judge herself
39:00from the bench
39:03urged you
39:05to reconsider
39:06going to trial.
39:08and then you decide
39:10to take the stand
39:10in your own defense.
39:12How did that come about?
39:13I was just rolling the dice,
39:15I guess you could say.
39:16Like, I just...
39:18Either y'all are
39:19going to find me guilty
39:20or y'all aren't.
39:21And they did find me guilty.
39:24Ten years after her conviction,
39:25Halford still hasn't
39:26acknowledged her role
39:27in the murder.
39:28In fact, she says
39:29she feels less guilty today
39:31than when it happened.
39:32But even now,
39:33you're pointing the blame
39:35elsewhere.
39:37You know?
39:38To...
39:39To...
39:40Reduce
39:41your share
39:42of the responsibility.
39:43Um, or to
39:45condemn the law
39:46whose hand you forced
39:48by going to trial.
39:50I really don't
39:51feel like I should
39:53have a murder
39:55in a way.
39:55Like,
39:56I guess because
39:58I really didn't know
40:00that they were
40:01going to go back
40:02and that all this
40:02was going to happen.
40:04You can try and debate,
40:05but one thing
40:06is undeniably clear.
40:07It was you
40:08who set in motion
40:09the chain of events
40:11that led to
40:12JD and Big Doug
40:14shooting each other
40:15in the dark of night.
40:17You can't deny that, right?
40:19You are the
40:20common denominator.
40:21Is that not enough
40:24responsibility
40:24to...
40:25to justify
40:27the punishment?
40:30It is.
40:31Don't you have the blood
40:33of both these men
40:34on your hands?
40:37Yes.
40:39What does that feel like?
40:40It's not good.
40:41It hurts.
40:45I don't want to acknowledge
40:46it, so I don't...
40:48I just kind of don't
40:49think about it
40:50that much anymore.
40:51But, you know,
40:52I'm sorry that...
40:54that they both
40:55lost their lives.
40:56It shouldn't have happened.
40:58And I know that's not
40:59going to fix anything.
41:01I'm sorry I can't fix it,
41:03you know, but...
41:04I am remorseful,
41:06and I do have regrets
41:07that it happened,
41:09but...
41:10I can't change it.
41:12What's your life
41:13inside like?
41:15Same thing,
41:16every day.
41:18At 30,
41:19Halford faces
41:19a grim reality.
41:21Life without parole
41:22means the state
41:22has little incentive
41:23to provide her
41:24with education
41:25or job training.
41:27Cancer took her
41:28mother's life
41:28soon after her arrest,
41:30and she has little support
41:31from the family
41:32she betrayed.
41:33She wears her mistakes
41:35on her sleeve.
41:36Mama tried,
41:38and my daddy cried.
41:39It's a song.
41:40It says,
41:42I turned 21 in prison
41:43doing life without parole.
41:45Talks about how
41:46all his Sunday learning,
41:47you know,
41:48his mama tried
41:48to keep him
41:49from being a rebel,
41:50but he just did
41:51what he wanted,
41:52and so my mama tried,
41:53and now my daddy's crying
41:54because I'm in here.
41:58This tore the family apart.
41:59No one wanted
42:00to take a side,
42:01but everyone was hurt as well.
42:03My brother and I
42:04have had a conversation
42:05on whether or not
42:06we've forgiven her,
42:07and we have,
42:08100%.
42:09She was young,
42:10she made a mistake,
42:11but take responsibility.
42:14Stop trying to say
42:15you're innocent.
42:16We know you're not.
42:18You know you're not.
42:19The people that were
42:20with you know you're not.
42:21We forgive you, though.
42:22We definitely forgive you,
42:23and we love you.
42:24We'll love you forever,
42:25your family.
42:27Two of the victims' children
42:29have extended
42:29extraordinary grace
42:31to Halford,
42:32even as they mourn
42:33their father
42:33and remember him
42:35to the next generation.
42:36She took a life.
42:38Someone who's very,
42:39very important to the community
42:40and loved her.
42:44Absolutely loved her.
42:46She took his life,
42:47so she got what she deserved.
42:49I'm sorry.
42:49She got what she deserved.
42:51So if my dad was still around today,
42:53he would still be driving his train,
42:55probably going behind the house,
42:56honking his horn.
42:58His grandkids would be his life.
42:59I can tell you right now.
43:01I can tell you right now
43:02he would love his grandkids
43:04more than life itself.
43:07But I don't know.
43:08I feel like he's still with us.
43:09His spirit is very strong.
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