- 14 minutes ago
"It's a privilege to be here," Morgan, who also wrote and produced the Netflix drama, says of the nominations.
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00:00Hello, I'm Dan Feinberg from The Hollywood Reporter.
00:03We're here today with Peter Morgan, writer, creator, producer of Netflix's The Crown,
00:08which is up for, how many Emmys is The Crown up for?
00:1113.
00:1213, excellent.
00:13I knew it was somewhere between 11 and 15, but I figured you would know the answer.
00:17And I assume you've been talking a lot about the show's Emmy hopes for probably a couple months now.
00:22What is that process like, the going through the gauntlet of pre-awards stuff?
00:29Actually, I haven't been talking about it because I've been in London making the second season.
00:35And in London, you know, our awards calendar is very different.
00:40We have the BAFTAs and then we get little or no sense of what's happening over here.
00:47And when you come here, it's quite a shock.
00:51Because it's, you know, I have some experience of this from films being on what they call award season.
01:00And, you know, it's a very different experience.
01:03In England, you don't campaign.
01:06You know, there's no industry around it.
01:10And so when you come here and get caught up in all this, you know, it feels like a whole
01:18other side of, it feels like show business, business, business, business.
01:21You know, it feels like it's a very, it's a big thing.
01:24Is it daunting?
01:25Is it something that sort of feels anathema to the process as you like to participate in it?
01:30Like, I assume you like to make the shows and then let things happen afterwards or the movies.
01:35I can't imagine anybody, you know, thinking, oh, good, it's award season.
01:44Because it feels, you know, even in the, I mean, of course it's lovely to win.
01:50I've had some experience of winning and I've had a lot of experience of not winning.
01:54Of course winning is nicer, but either you can't, you can't, you can't take it too seriously.
02:02And yet at the same time, it's taken extraordinarily seriously.
02:04And you don't want to let down people, you know, you don't want to let down people for whom it
02:10makes a big financial difference.
02:11Often the distributors or the street or the, you know, the company like Netflix.
02:17So I want, I'd love us to win, but, but equally I can't bear being put into a competition as,
02:25as the reward for having hopefully done good work that you end up turning colleagues and other shows that you
02:30admire into, into, into some kind of race, you know, which is, so it is, of course it's counterintuitive to
02:36the artistic process, but I, you know, it, it seems to be a really established part of the, of the
02:43industry now.
02:43Well, it's funny because some people, you know, when they get nominations, they go, oh, we never thought this would
02:50be a contender.
02:51We never thought this was the kind of thing that gets nominations, but you traditionally do write things that tend
02:56to lend themselves ultimately to awards down the line.
03:00You know, you work in a genre that is award friendly.
03:03How hard is it for you to not think about that at the end of the tunnel?
03:08I, I, I promise you I don't.
03:12I, I, I really promise you I don't, I, of course, I, I, I really don't.
03:15I just, you know, I do what I do and I think that, you know, I, I really care that
03:21people like what I do or the, or the work is as good as it possibly can be.
03:26Sometimes the circumstances don't permit or sometimes you don't do the best possible work, but I try to make it,
03:32if, if as a consequence of doing the best possible work that, you know, you end up in, you end
03:38up talking to you.
03:42You, no, but if, you know.
03:44I like being represented as the light at the end of the tunnel or maybe the darkness at the end
03:48of the tunnel.
03:48I'm not sure which one it is, but.
03:51Listen, I'd, I'd hate to not be here, right?
03:53So I'd hate that that would be, that, you know, I'd hate to not be here.
03:56And I'm, you know, and, and, and it, and it's a, it's a privilege to be here.
04:00You've obviously had to do a lot of interviews associated with this show.
04:05Are there different questions that British journalists ask compared to American journalists, given sort of the investment that they have
04:10in the subject matter?
04:11I, I have done almost no interviews at all.
04:14In, in the UK, for example, the, the, the royal family, anything to do with the royal family, it's, it's
04:20almost a hemophiliac issue.
04:21If you, if you, if you touch it, it bruises, you know, you've got to be so careful.
04:26What you say, you can be misinterpreted.
04:28I, I think it would be the same as if you were to talk, make it even an offhand remark
04:32about the presidency here or about Donald Trump.
04:34It would, you know, if you're in a conspicuous position, it flies.
04:37And so my, I elect to do almost no press or almost no interviews whatsoever.
04:43I also personally, my view is that it's not a good thing if you know who the writer is or
04:47what the writer looks like.
04:48Like, I prefer my writers to be anonymous so that I don't picture them.
04:55And I, I, I, I prefer my writing to, you know, to do, to do all the talking for me.
05:00I, I, I don't particularly like appearing.
05:03Do you ever read interviews with writers yourself or do you just simply avoid the genre as it were entirely?
05:10No, I, no, I, I, I will read, you know, if there's somebody whose work I admire, I will read
05:16about it.
05:16And, but mostly I'll do that as a cons, you know, as a consequence for having watched a show that
05:22I particularly enjoy.
05:23And, and I, I must say, I would be very keen to meet or to watch a good interview with,
05:30with other showrunners.
05:32You know, the, you know, the, the, the challenge of showrunning, particularly at a time where, you know,
05:37the sands are shifting so much, you know, in, in the industry and, and, and the way that television is
05:41perceived and consumed.
05:43It's such a rapidly changing, you know, area that we're all in that, that, that, to have a conversation with
05:50other people doing my job would just be lovely.
05:52But then I would imagine anybody would find that interesting talking to other people doing their job.
05:56Well, it's funny because it's such a cottage industry, the, the sort of post-mortem interview that everyone who runs
06:02a show has to do after basically every episode of a show explaining exactly what happened in that episode.
06:07And I've conducted many of those interviews myself and there, it's a weird thing to have to do that.
06:12And I guess I'm glad for you that you don't, that you don't have to analyze each episode of, of
06:17this show after having it released, I guess.
06:20Yeah. I, I, I, I'm grateful for that too. Um, uh, uh, yeah, I wouldn't do it. I just wouldn't
06:25do it.
06:26I mean, I, I, you know, I, I'm genuinely, I'm talking to, I think three people out here on this
06:31trip and, and I, I, I won't talk to anyone else.
06:35Well, have you gotten your finger on the pulse of reactions in the UK and how people have responded at
06:40all?
06:40Well, uh, I mean, uh, I, I do get it. I do get it. I got a sense just, you
06:45know, from, from, from text messages or, or, or, or, or from, or from emails and, and, and,
06:50people don't need to send those, you know what I mean? When, when, when you meet people face to face,
06:54then of course, they're not going to, you know, they're not going to tell you, you suck.
06:58But, um, uh, but, but, but, uh, I did get a, I got a disproportionate, uh, uh, electronic traffic, but,
07:07um, I, I, I think it is slightly, it is interpreted differently.
07:11Uh, I haven't had this, I haven't traveled enough because I've been so busy doing this damn thing that, that,
07:16uh, to get a sense of how it's, how it's gone down internationally.
07:19And I think also Netflix's penetration in the international market is, you know, it's just growing.
07:23So I'm hoping that with the second season, there'll be more subscribers, there'll be, it will have penetrated great, uh,
07:29you know, more markets.
07:30And we, this extraordinarily exciting thing about going day and date in all these countries at once.
07:36I mean, it's sort of breathtaking, the speed at which things are changing.
07:39Um, and that definitely has galvanized me in the writing.
07:43You know, that, that, that, that I, I feel that I'm, uh, part, part, part of an industry and a
07:50technology within the industry that is, that is, you know, disrupting and changing and, and moving things forward.
07:57And that, that inspires me.
07:58You know, I love that.
07:59Well, does the day and date and the binge process make a particular sense to you as a writer who
08:03wrote every episode of this?
08:05Sort of, sort of, it's, you wrote it as a binge process yourself.
08:08So does it make a certain sense to you that viewers are viewing it in a comparable way?
08:12Yeah, I, I, I, I love the fact that I have no control over how the viewers are watching it.
08:18You know, in, in the past, you have so much control.
08:21You, you, you write to commercial breaks, you write to episode lengths, you, you knew that there was a week's
08:26gap between, so you're writing in a particular way with cliffhangers, uh, you know, within the episode, you're, you're shaping
08:33it around, around a fixed timeline.
08:35Like now it's a, it's open season and, and, and, and the, one of, I, I, I'm almost more curious
08:42to ask people how they watched it, where they watched it, in, in, in, in what, in, in, in what
08:47segments, in what configuration on a big screen, on a small screen, you know, did it, you know, because we're,
08:53we're, we're making this in the way that I've, I've, I've, I've had an active career in the theater and
08:59in feature films.
08:59And I'm, we're making this show like a film.
09:02There's nothing different about the way we're making The Crown to the way that I made Frost Nixon, The Queen,
09:08The Last King of Scotland, you know, Rush.
09:11And, um, it's that kind of a bespoke experience.
09:15And I'm wondering how are people watching it?
09:16It's, it, you know, some people watch it in, you know, some people watching it, uh, one a night.
09:22Some people are watching four or five in one go.
09:25And, and that, you, you can't, you can't write to suit everybody's viewing habits.
09:32So, so I, I do know that anecdotally people say that two or three hours is, is, is quite common.
09:39So I, as I'm writing, you know, subsequent seasons, as I'm learning a little bit more about this,
09:45I am writing sometimes in twos, sometimes as a triplet, sometimes a single episode to, to, to really kind of
09:53shake things up and make the flow inside a season be more interesting.
09:58Now, obviously there's no technically wrong way to watch the show, but have you heard any sort of viewership experience
10:04where you just went, that's, that's, that's not how you're supposed to be doing it.
10:07You know, like someone watching it on a tiny phone, 10 hours straight or something like that.
10:11No, it wouldn't upset me.
10:12It really wouldn't.
10:13It might upset the cinematographer or the production designer, but, but, but, you know, I, I, this is where we
10:20are now, you know, and, and, and I'm sort of a gog at how people are watching, you know,
10:28I think as it's changing, you know, I'm, I'm sad that people are saying, no, cinema has to be cinema
10:33and television has to be, so this is such a movable thing now, the way in which we're doing all
10:36this.
10:37And, and, and, and, and it's disappointing to read people being so trenchant about, you know, how a media needs
10:44to be consumed.
10:44It's a film that must be consumed in this way.
10:46It's, it's a, it, it, it, people are consuming thinking, they're watching two things at once.
10:52And they seem to be, I was, I came on the, I came over on a plane, I was watching
10:56somebody, they were emailing, they were, and they didn't seem to be less focused.
11:02Normally I'd have said, for heaven's sake, you know, what are you doing, man?
11:06Concentrate, what's the matter with you?
11:07And, but he seemed, he seemed to be completely able to do, to do two things at once.
11:14I don't know what it's doing to our brains.
11:16I, you know.
11:17Scrambling him is the easy answer, but.
11:20Yeah, it's, but it's happening.
11:22And to pretend that it isn't happening is, is foolish.
11:25It's happening and it's exciting.
11:28What was Claire's last day on set like in season two?
11:33Well, I kept, I kept, we kept having these goodbyes and, and it, well, you know, there was a sense
11:42of relief for her, I think, because I think she, two seasons of very hard work carrying a show like
11:47that, you know, that takes its toll.
11:49And I think she, she really felt she'd got to the end.
11:52I think she was, she'd got, you know, she'd really felt she'd done her bit, you know, and she was
11:56ready.
11:56But I wasn't ready to let her go.
11:58And, and so I kept coming up with extra reshoots that were completely unnecessary and completely spurious.
12:05Although that, you know, that said, every time I looked at an episode in post and it wasn't quite working
12:11or, you know, the pieces, putting Claire in it would orientate it, root it.
12:17And, and I, I, I felt such a strong connection to her as a writer.
12:21You know, I was writing for that face.
12:23Well, you've been talking basically the whole time about the need to recast at a certain point.
12:28Was there any part of you in season two that sort of started toying with the idea of, well, maybe
12:32we could see what the makeup would look like.
12:35You know, maybe we can try it and maybe it'll be okay just to keep her around.
12:38No, I, I, I don't think so.
12:40I, I, I think, um, I'd, I'd sooner stop altogether than, than have, than disfigure the poor woman.
12:48She, you know, she's done, no, it's sort of perfect what she's done.
12:52And also, you know, she represents, if we are going to go forward, it's not, it's not just the face
12:57that changes with age.
12:59It's experience of life.
13:00And she's, she, she, in her own personal life has just had one child.
13:04She's a brand new mother.
13:06You couldn't ask her to inhabit the soul of somebody who'd had four children.
13:11And, I mean, I know that there's acting, but then there are other sort of kind of deeper things and
13:14deeper things that you wear in your face and in your air and in your spirit.
13:17And, and, um, I couldn't ask her to wear the scars of that many battles, you know, as a human
13:24being and as a mother, as a wife, you know.
13:26It needs to be now, if it continues, it needs to be a woman with genuine experience of life or
13:34deeper experience of life.
13:35Well, you say if it continues, but you're assuming it's going to continue, of course, right?
13:39Well, there's will, there's will on both sides.
13:41Sure.
13:41But we haven't pressed the button yet.
13:43And, and, and pressing the button is contingent upon finding the right group of people, making sure I've got the
13:48right stories.
13:48Everybody's still having the energy, you know.
13:51It's, uh, right now we're still in that transitional period where people's expectations are for cinematic television at cinematic levels.
13:59But they are still somehow demanding 10 episodes a year, which is like the old television.
14:03Sure.
14:04Um, and you, you, we've got to be careful you don't burn people out that way.
14:08I don't know how to tell you this, but a lot of American TV shows do 22 or 24.
14:12It's just sort of unimaginable.
14:15And, and, and I, I, I, every day I send, uh, compassion and hugs to all the showrunners out there.
14:23I do.
14:24Well, but Netflix is always so big about we make our own rules, it's our own thing.
14:27Surely if you came to them and said season three is going to be six episodes and that, that's how
14:32many it's going to be, they would just nod politely and let you do it, right?
14:35I think so.
14:35I mean, I, I, I, I, I, they would, I think they'd first express disappointment, but I think, I think
14:40they, they would.
14:41And you read, you know, you read about, um, you know, the, the creator of Fargo saying it's just not
14:48ready yet and therefore it won't.
14:49And, and, and, and in FX, they, he had a supportive, uh, uh, uh, group of executives that sort of
14:55said, well, you can't just tell someone, you know, when it's ready, it's ready.
14:59And, and that's a fantastically broad-minded attitude to the creative process.
15:03What is the actual search process going to look like?
15:06Like, are you actually going to read 50 actresses or are you going to go in saying, I have five
15:10people I want to take over Queen Elizabeth?
15:13You know, how, how actually searching is it going to be, do you imagine?
15:17Well, no, but I think, you see, that, that would be more when it was the younger Queen.
15:21Um, by the time you're looking at someone who's going to be ultimately in their mid-40s, maybe even 50,
15:27you know, by and large, the good ones will have risen to the top already.
15:32And, uh, and there won't be such a question of, you know, of, of discovery.
15:38Uh, but I, you know, I've got a world-class casting director in Nina Gold and, um, I generally follow
15:46her advice.
15:46It's very rare that we disagree.
15:48And is this all moving along until eventually Helen Mirren can get back in the crown or, or would you
15:54actually want to avoid that specifically having been there and done that?
15:57I, I, I think probably she would, would like to avoid it.
16:01Um, uh, she, she has, uh, she's been, she's been a fantastic friend and, uh, and Queen, you know, for
16:09me.
16:09And, uh, no, really, she has.
16:11And, uh, I, I don't, if she feels that she still has something to give, if I feel I still
16:17have something to write by that point, I mean, uh, one step at a time.
16:21And when we talked before the start of the first season, you said that the first season was kind of
16:25a superhero origin story for Elizabeth.
16:29What is the second season by that standard?
16:31Well, you know, if at the beginning of the first season, you've got people marrying in the first episode and,
16:36uh, really finding their way and having this dreadful bombshell dropped on them.
16:41And, and, you know, by the second season, it's, it's 10 years on and any marriage that's 10 years old
16:47will, will have its complexities, have its issues.
16:50Uh, people are older, um, so you, I think you'll find a marriage that's more shaded, is experiencing more challenges.
17:02I think you'll find her being better and more grounded and more, uh, established in her role.
17:06And I think you'll find that whatever cracks there were, uh, between, in her relationships, both with her mother, with
17:14her sister, uh, they will only have deepened with time.
17:17And so, things are just a little, uh, darker.
17:24And you mentioned trying to write in sort of different two-episode or three-episode blocks.
17:28Is there anything like the Sutherland Churchill episode in the second season?
17:32Yeah, yeah, there is.
17:32I mean, not, not literally the same, obviously.
17:35It doesn't revolve around a portrait or something, but there are some surprising, you know, uh, duets, um, you know,
17:41that, that, that we've unearthed in our research.
17:44I have eight full-time researchers, you know, I imagine, it's so wonderful.
17:48And, uh, they're constantly throwing up discoveries.
17:52We, we, you know, uh, we, we're pretty thorough.
17:56And, and so, uh, um, uh, I think, I hope there'll be a lot of things that, I always take
18:02myself as the yardstick.
18:03If I don't know something in this field, then it's likely that most people won't because I've just spent more
18:08time reading around this, you know.
18:10So, so, so when I find something that surprises me, I think, you know, I think it's a pretty safe
18:15bet that it, that it will surprise others.
18:17And, and, and I've learned so many things this last season.
18:19Had there been any sort of corrections made by experts to things in the first season where you're like, yeah,
18:24we kind of, we kind of blew that one?
18:26Yeah, heads will roll in the research department.
18:28I, I, I know they're very keen.
18:29They're very, they're all, they're all, like, really keen.
18:32I mean, of course, all history is interpretation.
18:35Sure.
18:35And, and, and presumably some people will have things to say about that.
18:39But, uh, my gang is pretty thorough.
18:42And, and they, you know, they, they take it as a badge of honor that, that, that, that what they
18:49fed me is, you know, that I can trust it.
18:51And just to the last question, you've been so busy putting the finishing touches on the second season.
18:55Have you watched any TV this summer at all?
18:58Well, I've, uh, yeah, I have, actually, I have, I, I, I, I've watched a number of the other shows
19:03that have been nominated.
19:04I've watched, uh, documentaries, you know, I, ultimately, if I'm writing my own stuff, I, I, I do retreat often
19:12to documentaries because it's a place where I can switch off without thinking, God, why didn't I do something like
19:17that?
19:17You know, when, if I watch other drama, I often think, oh, that's so, you know, I, I'm, I'm, I,
19:22I sort of think, why do I, I wish we did a bit more of that or, you know, you
19:25know?
19:26So sometimes I need to put that aside if I want to have an evening off.
19:29And, uh, and, and I, you know, the, the, the, the rise of the documentary as a, both in feature
19:35film, but also the spectacular OJ, uh, documentary, um, that's a joy for me.
19:42You know, my life is now, I'm a wall-to-wall documentary guy.
19:45So what have you particularly enjoyed that you watched this summer?
19:47I enjoyed, uh, I enjoyed, uh, I enjoyed, uh, well, as, uh, dramas, I enjoyed Stranger Things, I enjoyed Handmaid's
19:53Tale, um, I enjoyed, uh, I, I've been, I have been kind of too busy reading to watch as much
20:09as is on offer.
20:10I mean, it's, how do you, how do you make an impression on what's on offer?
20:14I mean, there is so, that's, there's a lot to watch.
20:17That's my day-to-day job.
20:18Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:20Well, thank you so much.
20:21We've been talking with, uh, Peter Morgan, creator of The Crown.
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