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The Hollywood Reporter’s Scott Feinberg sat down with writer-director Tara Miele and actress Sienna Miller to discuss the pair’s new film, 'Wander Darkly,' in a 'THR Presents' Q&A powered by Vision Media.
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00:04Hi, I'm Scott Feinberg from The Hollywood Reporter. Very, very happy to be joined today
00:09by the two people most responsible for Wander Darkly, the writer-director Tara Mele and the
00:14star Sienna Miller. Thank you guys so much for making the time and for a really terrific movie.
00:21And I want to start with you, Tara, because this is your fourth feature, and I believe it is
00:28probably in some ways your most personal, because this was sort of inspired by a crazy thing that
00:35happened to you and your husband, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think in some ways,
00:40you know, I've done, I have done features before and always sort of as a gun for hire.
00:44This is certainly in some ways feels like my first, which is a funny thing to have at the
00:48fourth or fifth. But yeah, my husband and I, we survived a pretty bad car crash several years ago.
00:56And it was just such a crazy thing. You know, our little girls were really little at the time,
01:01six months and four. And I think being a parent sort of changed my sense of my own mortality. And
01:07you know, you have that brush with, with death, and you just count yourself so lucky on the tail
01:12end of that. And we had also lost a few people close to us around the time that I was
01:17writing
01:17Wander Darkly. And so there was just this sense of like luck and gratitude and hold on to it every
01:22day
01:22that you're not at a hospital that you're not like dealing with any sort of tragedy. So so that
01:28was sort of the beginning of it was just wanting to share the incredible gratitude that came out of
01:33the experience, as well as the, the sort of strange certainty I had, you know, after the crash that
01:40I was dead, or I just weird things were coming out of my mouth and my concussed state that seemed
01:44perfectly reasonable at the time. And then five minutes later would seem insane. So it was sort of
01:50kind of looking at that grief and the state of a concussion, how, how those things parallel.
01:56And as you were, you know, using this as the basis of a screenplay, were you also thinking about
02:02other films? It's been interesting reading about your film and people's takes on it, you know,
02:07certain ones come up that, you know, it's, they're certainly not exact parallels, but there are,
02:14there are elements, whether it's ghosts or the ghost and Mrs. Muir, or it's a wonderful life.
02:22Actually, the one that I found fairly that I thought about, and I then I realized, wait a minute,
02:27this checks out because Lynette Howell Taylor is your producer is Blue Valentine, in a sense where
02:33you go back and piece together things and what makes sense or what doesn't. But just curious if any
02:38of these were on your mind. Oh my gosh. You know, it's interesting because I think maybe they've all
02:43sort of baked into the stew of who I am as a person and as a filmmaker. I just did
02:48a podcast all about
02:50ghosts. And I was like, oh my God, I think I made ghosts. Like this was obviously formative to me
02:56as a,
02:56as a nine-year-old kid or whatever watching. But yeah, there was a lot. I mean, Jacob's Ladder has
03:02come up, The Fisher King, Two for the Road. You know, Maya Darin was a big influence on me in
03:07film
03:08school, right? So there's quite a lot of different, I think, and Charlie Kaufman, obviously, I think
03:12people have seen some Eternal Sunshine stuff. So it's all, you know, I will say I give due to all
03:19the amazing filmmakers that came before me and that I pay homage to and that, that kind of bubbled in
03:23there secretly, you know? Well, one more quick question for you, Tara, and then I'm going to turn
03:30to Sienna for a moment. But I first have to ask you this title, Wander Darkly, where does it come
03:37from?
03:39So there's this beautiful Lord Byron poem. In his time, the scientists predicted that the sun would
03:45extinguish and everybody was quite, you know, up in arms about this idea. And he wrote this very
03:51beautiful poem. And there's a line that says, the stars did wander darkling. And it just, it seemed to
03:58me the most beautiful way to talk about such a devastating idea. And I loved that idea of holding
04:03two things and the same, you know, in those words, the beauty and the tragedy of something
04:08at the same time. Yeah, that's great. So Wander Darkly is a little bit more linguistically.
04:13Yes, exactly. Darkling was a little, a little too old school, you know, too hard to swallow.
04:18So Sienna, tell us, you know, what was going on in your life when this came across your radar,
04:24how it came across your radar, and, and just what you think you responded to about it.
04:30You know, I was, I hadn't worked, I don't think for a few months, and I was reading things and
04:35waiting for that knee jerk reaction of just some guttural sense that I'm connected to something.
04:41And I got snuck this script, Diego was attached, we have the same agent, and had kind of talked
04:47about doing something for a while. And she sent me the script. And I sat on my rooftop in New
04:53York,
04:53and I read it. And my mum was in the house and my daughter and I came in sobbing. And
05:01it was just
05:02one of those moments. And it's happened maybe once before in my life with film and plays a lot, but
05:09where I read something and just had a very clear vision, or it's landed in whatever place
05:14resonance that that that creativity comes from is just like ignited. And, and so I phoned Lynette,
05:21who I knew, and then FaceTimed with Tara, and it worked out. It was miraculous.
05:27Why do you think you found it so moving? I think each person's reaction to it
05:32is inherently very personal. We've all had loss, we've all many of us have had, you know,
05:39traumatic things at different points. Was there something about it that you think
05:43particularly resonated with you?
05:46I think it, I think it spoke to my mind in some way that the notion of going back with
05:51a partner in
05:52a state of a relationship that's imploding. First of all, that felt really honest and a very honest
05:56examination of what new parenthood is in a way that is very underrepresented, I think. But the idea of
06:03going back with your partner to the, to the inception of something and noticing the beats where you
06:07miscommunicated or misfired or pivoted or got off track or just, or your recollection of something being so
06:12vastly different to someone else's, I think relationships are really, really fascinating
06:17to me. So that was probably the thing that for whatever experiences I've had in my own life,
06:22like landed. And then I was so blindsided by the turns that this film took and did not see any
06:30of it
06:30coming. And I thought if I can have that experience reading it, imagine how beautiful that will be if
06:35it's, if it's achieved on cinema.
06:38Well, you mentioned Diego and if anyone is, I, you know, by any chance coming upon this Q and A
06:44before seeing the film, we'll say, this is Diego Luna, who interestingly, I guess was really breaking
06:49through on the film scene at about the same time. I think that you were Sienna with Factory Girl. And,
06:55and I just wonder, did you guys know each other before this? It's hard to come up with a sort
07:01of
07:02believable sense of history and chemistry, like, like you guys have in this film.
07:06You know, we met around that time. I had, he had E2 Mama Tembien and I had a Factory Girl
07:12coming out.
07:13And it was, it was pretty much both of our first experiences of like, of Hollywood and sort of a
07:18buzzy film. And, you know, suddenly you find yourself in this room with these people that you've
07:22idolized your entire life. And it's very surreal. And there was a lot of alcohol. And
07:28I remember being with sort of the young Alfonso Cuaron and we were like, you know,
07:33like in the corner and suddenly, you know, now I look and I'm like, hi, hi, hi. But no,
07:39we had this thing where it was all new and exciting and fresh and we kind of stuck together. I
07:42actually
07:43have hysterical photographs of us from that moment in time. And I will show you too, because I haven't.
07:49Yeah, but so, so we, and then of course, over the years, you run into each other here and there
07:54and,
07:55and we'd always got along very well. So, so there was a sense of history, but then Tara
07:59did this thing, which was essential and, and is never really done where we had a week of rehearsal.
08:06And because of the nature of the subject matter of this, so personal in terms of grief and
08:11relationships, we all kind of got cracked open, I think, in that room, which meant that when we
08:15arrived to shoot, we'd sort of aired all of our deepest losses and loves. And it felt very intimate,
08:23that space. Well, so Tara, I want to ask you about that because as, as Sienna's saying,
08:29rehearsal is not a luxury that most films have, certainly not most lower budget films. And so I
08:36wonder how did you bring that together and what was the, the mission there from, from your point of
08:41view? Yeah. I mean, I think the mission was because we were going to be shooting in such a short
08:46period of
08:46time, we had 24 days or something to shoot this. It was to try to have all the conversations and
08:52try to
08:52get as much of the work done offset without everybody's eyes on you and try to try to,
08:57again, build that, the intimacy and, and allow for as much vulnerability from all of us as the
09:04script was offering. And I think, I think that was the really beautiful thing about that time was,
09:09it was mostly conversation. It wasn't like we stood up and blocked scenes or did any of that.
09:14And we did some, some, you know, looking at, looking at the turns in the script, where are
09:20we in the past? Where are we in the present? What, you know? But then also just a lot of
09:24sharing about
09:26personal, you know, experiences with anything around these, these themes. And then the other
09:30thing that was important was that the world we were building around the couple felt very authentic to
09:36them. And Diego and Sienna were really involved in conversations with production design about what color
09:41their kitchen would be and, and, you know, what books would be on their shelves. And that was
09:46really lovely. You know, where, where in Mexico, the textiles would be from that are on the couch.
09:50They're not from Tijuana, you know? So that part I think felt like building them a world and just all
09:56of that goes into the, into the mix, right? It's just another little thing that, that lends some
10:01reality for this, for this, you know, world to, to come out of.
10:06So you mentioned 24 days, which is gotta have been daunting. Uh, and this was shot, I believe,
10:16entirely in and around L.A. Yeah, in L.A.
10:20So I want to ask you about that. And, uh, you know, it's the back, the backdrop, the highways,
10:26everything is, it's a character of its own in this, um, movie. And I, I, I want to ask you
10:31about that.
10:31And also, uh, then to follow up with Sienna about, you know, on a low budget with a tight
10:39shooting schedule, are you guys shooting with, you know, I'm assuming like most movies out of
10:45sequence, which must make it, I don't know if you guys both had to sit down and chart this thing
10:49out
10:50because it's already, you're going back in conversations where it's like, we're in the
10:55present, but we're talking about the past. I just can't imagine keeping track of, of all of this,
11:00if it was done out of sequence. So Tara, first about L.A., please.
11:04So, yeah, so shooting in L.A. was, uh, really wonderful. Um, but first of all, I feel like the
11:09east side of L.A. is, is so infrequently shown and it's beautiful. And I, you know, I remember,
11:15you know, of course, like people in New York will be like, L.A. has no character. There's no beautiful
11:19buildings. And I think there's so much to discover on the east side of L.A. in particular. Um, and
11:24that was
11:24important to me to show sort of this like multicultural world that we live in and this sort of very
11:29specific, uh, backdrop of L.A. as like a grid that is trying to keep things in control and, you
11:36know,
11:36as opposed to sort of the nature that, you know, of, of acceptance and, and the natural cycles of
11:42life. So that was important. And also we have that all in L.A., right? It's like, it's all here
11:46for
11:46you. It's just whatever piece you want to take in. Um, and then in terms of, um, what was your
11:53other
11:53questions? No, just about the, you know, movies are not usually shot in sequence. I wonder if you
11:59and Sienna had to sort of, and, and, and also screenplays are not usually in the present talking
12:06about the past or, you know, in the way that this is sort of fluid. So just how you guys
12:11navigated
12:12that. Yeah, that was, um, I think very tricky. I did create a, like an in order timeline for
12:19everybody so that we all knew like at what, you know, this happened in 2005 and this is how it
12:24marched out or whatever. Um, I think it was, you know, incredibly stressful for my AD and the script
12:31supervisor and the producers and the actors, it was like stressful all around. Um, and for me,
12:36it was, the stress was which part won't make sense because there were so many strange and new and
12:42unique, like getting into that weird concussed space of wander darkly and making sure I was answering
12:47everybody's questions and that it was available enough to answer everybody's questions. Um, and
12:52the producer, Sam Hausman really did become like a second voice for me who like understood it in as
12:59deep a way as I did and was there every day and could be a secondary resource, but it was
13:04like, look,
13:05we make movies out of order. It's always confusing. This just added like a double, triple, quadruple
13:10layer of more, more of that. And Sienna, did you have a, uh, a method that you figured out of
13:16making it work for you? I remember I had a color-coded script of like green highlighter
13:22is past, pink is present kind of because those pivots would come in the middle of moments and it
13:27was surreal to do. I think I was in such a confused state for this whole experience because that was
13:33what was, that was really what was required. I remember at the time thinking like, oh, it's just
13:38because it's crazy and it's chaos. And like, why am I feeling this discombobulated and confused? And,
13:42and then in hindsight, you always look back and you're like, oh, right. Cause that's what you
13:46were supposed to be feeling. Um, but yeah, no, like Tara said, it's always, you're never in
13:51sequence, but this was particularly challenging because within one day it could be very much
13:57real happiness to like extreme grief and then back to like joy again and, or something with the kid
14:02and you were just, I just turned around, but in a way surrendering to that chaos is probably useful
14:07in something like this. Well, one of the most incredible things for, you know, a movie made
14:12on a budget is how great these VFX transitions are between, you know, you're in a garage or
14:19something and then you're at the beach and it's like seamless. And I, I guess maybe that's the Maya
14:25Darren, uh, back, you know, backstory there for you, Tara, but just how did, how do you do that with,
14:30with not a ton of means? Um, you know, it, it took an incredible amount of faith on the part
14:36of the
14:37producers and the team and the actors sort of being like, sure, this will turn into water and
14:41it's going to look great. Um, we had an incredible, um, uh, camera team that was taking very detailed
14:49notes on the A and the B side of everything we did. We had no motion control. We didn't have
14:52any of
14:53that. Um, we had a fantastic VFX house ingenuity that, uh, you know, hundreds and hundreds of
15:00versions of these things to make it all work and make it all, uh, sing. And then the, our first
15:06editor, editor that we had on tomorrow meme, uh, comes from a VFX background. And so there are a lot
15:11of transitions that actually don't have effects that we just lined up and that we made work, you know,
15:16in the, in the room. So it was, um, a, certainly a team effort and, um, I, I mean, a
15:23huge part of the
15:23work actually, I would say. Yeah. And Sienna, from the actor's point of view, you're, I imagine a lot
15:30of the time basically reacting to nothing. I mean, Tara was really, we'd have stuff to react to. It was
15:39more, I, you know, I'm not the most technically adept actor. I don't think in terms of like green screen
15:45is a real challenge, sort of ducking at nothing is, it's a whole other skillset that I haven't
15:50really had to utilize. Um, with this, it was more like you'd be in an intense emotional moment and
15:55then you'd have to suddenly look left. And, and it's, and, and if you're on an a hundred million
16:01dollar budget movie, you're like, I get it. It's going to be amazing. You're like, you're literally
16:06like, we're basically all hitchhiking to work and you're like, I look left. Yeah. Because that's
16:10going to become, okay, great. And there's, there are moments in the movie that I cannot remember.
16:14I was like, and you feel like a big hand bone and then you watch the movie at Sundance.
16:20You're like, Oh wow. That was really like, I get it, but you know, it's, it's counterintuitive
16:25a lot of the time, this stuff. And yeah, I would be in these deep, that Sienna and Diego
16:30would be in these deep, beautiful performances and I'd be like, it's great. Now just look this
16:35way. And it was just, it was so ludicrous. It was so ludicrous. And they were so, um, trusting
16:41and, and game and tolerance. Well, okay. So one of the things I've heard you each talk
16:51about separately, just in other conversations is that this was to an extent greater than
16:57usual, a very heavily female set, not just, um, you know, forget about in front of the
17:04camera, but behind the camera. And, um, Tara wonder if that's a conscious deliberate decision
17:11and, and for both of you, how does that affect the, your ability to do your work on a project
17:17like this?
17:18Um, yeah, I'll say for me, it's, it's conscious in, to the extent that when I interview a crew,
17:25I like to give women and people of color. Um, you know, I like to judge people by their potential
17:32as opposed to maybe their resume, because I think a lot of times white men get judged on
17:35their potential. They come out of, you know, having done a little movie and they get that
17:38shot to do the big movie. So, you know, it was also just people who I connected with people
17:43who I thought would see this story as a human story and not a chick flick or try to hyper
17:48feminize or try to romanticize too greatly, um, or detach us from, you know, Sienna's journey.
17:55So it all sort of added up to, to just naturally lending itself that way. There were a lot of
18:00really capable, talented, smart women who I met with and interviewed and connected with
18:05and was dying to work with. So, um, but certainly I've had the, I I've worked with a lot of
18:12men
18:12that I love, and I've also had the experience of being quite lonely as like the only female
18:18voice, you know, on a set. Um, and now I'm sort of spoiled to, you know, once you get to
18:24create your own culture on a set, it's hard to, it's hard not to want to continue to do
18:28that. Sienna? You know, it was the first, it was the most kind of female centric set that
18:34I've ever been on. And there was, I remember on the first day looking up and seeing Tara
18:38and our DP, our first AD, the producers, all women, and, and just like having this moment
18:46on a set, which was like Tara feeling often part of a minority or something or something
18:51slightly alien or like on the outside, the peripheral, and then really overcompensating
18:56to become, you know, one of the guys, like I'd be on the crew with the beer at the end
19:00of the shoot. It felt really, it was just inspiring more than anything. And then of course you spend
19:07a lot of time thinking about that and longing for the day where that's just the norm, you
19:11know? Yeah.
19:12So, um, the experience of actually making this movie for you guys, Tara, is this cathartic?
19:20Have you now been able to deal in a better way than before with what you went through Sienna
19:26to go home to your own kid after doing this, uh, project each day where you're emotionally
19:34imagining things that hopefully nobody has to go through, I guess, just what is it like,
19:40what, what was the effect of the filmmaking on you, uh, Tara? And then we'll ask Sienna.
19:45I mean, I think for me, it was certainly cathartic. Um, I probably don't need to talk
19:49about this accident like ever again, you know, forever and ever. Um, but I will say it's sort
19:55of like, I almost made it as a reminder for myself. So I remember we were at Sundance and
19:59we'd had this beautiful premiere and it was so exciting and absolutely wonderful. And the
20:03next day, I think I had this sort of postpartum moment and we'd got kind of like a middling
20:08review and I was very disoriented and very depressed. And I came out of a Q and a and, um,
20:14someone told me that Kobe Bryant and his daughter had passed away. And I, I just got hit like all
20:19over again with that is why you made this movie. This life is so delicate and so short and none
20:25of
20:25this matters. And it's so, so for me, I feel like in a way it's a practice sort of having
20:30this, like
20:31being in the moment and appreciating what you've got. And, um, I, I hope that having spent years
20:38making the film just doesn't let me forget that, that, that exists and that you can come back to
20:44it and that you have to keep coming back to it. Um, the experience of making it. Yeah. And just
20:52like, you know, I know you guys, it's the cliche question and like, Oh, do you take this home with
20:56you at the end of the day or whatever? But I would imagine maybe more than most you could with
21:01this.
21:02It's like pretty relatable. Yeah, it was, it, it definitely kind of by osmosis just creeps into
21:08you and that's conducive to whatever you're doing. It's, it's something that I don't want to fight.
21:13I've said this before, but I think the best acting you kind of do is when you get home and
21:17everything has to be normal and, and, you know, and then you can kind of crawl into your bed and,
21:21and sit in it for a little while, but it's impossible not to, not to, not to make these things
21:27real when you're shooting them or to radically empathize with people who've had that experience
21:32or something similar. Um, but like Tara said, it is that, it's that gratitude of, of the relief
21:39of knowing what you have and, and how beautiful that is and to, and to cherish those moments. And,
21:44um, it was exhausting and it was painful and it was sad. And I think we were, when we were
21:49done,
21:49we were like, I felt like I mined grief from such an interior place that I, I also feel like
21:54I don't
21:54need to do that again for a while, but then you see something and it's, and it leaves you with
21:59this
22:00feeling of like love this movie. And, and so it's great. Yeah. I'm answering your question.
22:06No, it's great. It's, uh, I, and I, I guess I just want to close with a question again for
22:11both of you,
22:12which is, you know, this movie goes Sundance back in January in a different world. It feels like
22:18different universe pre, uh, all of this insanity that we're now living through comes out now being
22:23consumed in the era of the pandemic where loss and grief is omnipresent, um, and a sense of isolation,
22:33I guess. And a lot of things that I just wonder if you think that's impacting the way people are
22:39receiving the movie and just what you hope people take away from this movie. And maybe this time we'll
22:45start with you Sienna and close with Tara. I think that there are themes in this, that everybody is
22:51connected to right now. And we're all, we are all connected in that, in that one experience of
22:57imagining this, you know, and, and experiencing grief and loss and solitude. And, um, it's a
23:03perfect time for a film like this because not only are those themes prevalent, but also I think
23:09the, the feeling that it leaves you with is the desire to connect and to hold the people that you
23:14love extremely close. And that's, that's what it achieves. I think that's what we're all craving.
23:18And so it's, it's kind of a perfect moment as sad as it is not to be in person or
23:23celebrating and
23:24having that live experience. Yeah. Yeah. Tara, you want to close this up?
23:29Yeah. You know, it's funny because I think when, when you do experience grief, it can feel like the
23:34whole world has changed, even though it's such a private experience for you. And right now we're
23:39sort of going through this enormous public grief, but we're isolated and experiencing it very,
23:45you know, you know, singularly. Um, and I think, I think the fact that Wander Darkly is coming out
23:52in a way where everybody can access it in their homes and with their, you know, pod or with their
23:57nuclear family is sort of perfect. Um, and it's funny, it's like you let a movie out into the world
24:03and it's like a kid and you just hope it can like, you know, stand on its own. But, but
24:08I do think
24:08people are really experiencing a catharsis watching this film right now. That's a beautiful
24:15thing. That's, that's really touching people in a, in a very specific way right now. And I think it's
24:20for me, we'll be forever linked with this strange year and this strange time. And this, this collective
24:25grief that we've all, I want to say that we've survived, but it's not quite over yet.
24:31Well, even if people cannot go to movie theaters because they are not open, they can stream this movie
24:36on a whole bunch of different services. I, I double checked that and, uh, and I, and they
24:42should. And I just want to thank you guys both for making the time to do this and, um, appreciate
24:46it. Thank you, Scott. All right. Thank you again so much, Tara and Sienna. And thank you to everyone
24:53who's joined us for this episode of the Hollywood Reporter Presents Screening Series.
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