- 9 hours ago
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:03Hi, this is Mariah Gullow from The Hollywood Reporter, and I'm in studio with Eugenie Afanyevsky.
00:10Thank you so much for being here. You're the director of Cries from Syria, the documentary
00:14that's on HBO. Let's talk a little bit about how this documentary came together.
00:22You know, I think people knows and familiar with my previous work, Winter on Fire, that I did in
00:292013, 2014, and finished in 2015. And finishing the Winter on Fire and being in the European
00:36Union, and Ukraine is a part of the European Union, and the story of Winter on Fire is a
00:41uprising that happened in Ukraine. I was witnessing a couple of things. First of all, for the first
00:46time I saw the Syrian flags on Maidan. I even saw the guys, Syrian doctors, who'd been on
00:52Maidan, because a lot of people from Syria studied medical schools in Russia or in Ukraine.
00:59So it's interesting. So I saw Syrian flags, I guess, in solidarity on Ukrainian Maidan in
01:05February 2014-15. And it was interesting that in 2015, almost every headliners of the newspapers
01:14were screaming, oh, Syrian refugees coming, they're invading our cities. And I'm talking about
01:19the European Union. They bring in their culture, they bring in Islam, it's terrorism. So people
01:24were scared of these people. So I started to do research as every filmmaker. And I found
01:29out that most of the people whom I met were different than the Syrians. They're not very
01:34Syrians. They were either from Afghanistan, from Iraq, or people from Africa even. And somehow,
01:40entire media was putting a frame around them as Syrian refugees. Now, I do saw Syrian refugees,
01:47and I do met them. And I started to kind of research why everybody is called Syrian refugees.
01:52What is the story? Why these people coming? What is their backgrounds? Because you know what,
01:57we fear the people when we don't know anything about them. It's like typical human nature. So I decided
02:04to tell the story of refugees. But to tell the story of refugees, you can't without knowing everything
02:11before. Everything what's happened before. Now, what's happened in the Western media,
02:17we're missing this element from the beginning of the uprising, Syrian uprising, up until all these
02:23elements, invasion, how we call it in the press, invasion of the refugees into the Europe. That is
02:30absolutely wrong expression. So this missing link, 11 and 15, I decided to tell. And with this event,
02:39bring us to the Syrian refugee crisis that happening nowadays. This is how it's happened to me. Now,
02:46of course, taking in consideration that every story have beginning, middle, and end, the point of the
02:53Syrian refugees in Europe for me was the ending point of my story. So I needed to tell the middle
02:58of the
02:59story in the beginning. And for that, I went to the Syrian borders, I went to Turkey, I went to
03:03Lebanon,
03:03I went to Jordan, and I started to look for the people who've been in a Syrian event, who participated
03:10in events, who, not necessarily witnesses, I wanted to find the real heroes, the real icons of these
03:17events, who've been essential elements. Like for example, Abdelbasid Sarut, he is the person who was
03:24famous for being a famous goalkeeper, a soccer player, and then he became a voice of the revolution.
03:30He became a singer during demonstrations, then he became commander of the brigades. So for me,
03:35he is the icon who like being essential element of these things. Or for example, Riyadh al-Assad,
03:41who been the highest colonel in the army of President Bashar al-Assad, and in the same time,
03:48switched the sides and created Free Syrian Army. So for me, it was essential elements,
03:53that they're the only ones who can tell the story, not just the people who witnessed,
03:58the people who participated. I needed to know their story, I needed to allow them to voice themselves
04:04and tell the story to the world. And specifically, since it started with the kids, and the whole
04:09revolution started with the kids who've been inspired by the Arab Spring, I was trying to find
04:15all these kids who've been a part of the events, who've been a part of the revolution, who've been a
04:20part
04:20of the war, civil war, or the proxy war that it is right now. And slowly, slowly, I interviewed
04:25and I found over hundreds of people who were a part of this, but not just a witness,
04:31people who participated.
04:33And you interviewed, you interviewed a hundred people, over a hundred people,
04:39and just all over, kind of all over the world.
04:43All over the European Union, all over the Middle East, and where the most of the people are located.
04:50Some of them still in Syria, some of them between Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, some of them
04:55inside of European Union, who've been able to cross the borders. So it's crossed, I mean,
05:00the borders between the Middle East and European Union. So it's different places, different stories,
05:06stories. But together, through these stories, I've been able to put a comprehensive story
05:11explaining everything versus the small segments of the news that we were exposed since 2015.
05:18Yeah, it's very, it's very beautifully laid out in a linear fashion so that you can follow it
05:25and understand the cause and effect that leads you to the point today where we have a humanitarian crisis.
05:32It's like a doctor who's trying to treat the disease. You just can't treat the symptoms.
05:37You need to treat the disease. So for me, going into the refugee story, I needed to show the roots
05:43of this story, the roots that caused these events that we are right now kind of struggling.
05:49Because remember, this is the biggest refugee crisis since Second World War.
05:53They're bigger than what we had after the Second World War.
05:56Right. And then we have this other story that has come in with ISIS that has kind of dominated
06:03and caused so much fear, but has actually been a distraction to what is actually happening in Syria.
06:11So let me also enlighten you, since you saw the movie, what I learned about ISIS,
06:16and I had a lot of interaction with the people who've been a part of the ISIS or who've been
06:22basically witnessing the atrocities or who were planning to go and have been able to shift their minds.
06:28So at the end of the day, a portion of the ISIS that was specifically on the Syrian side
06:33was created by the president, Bashar al-Assad, specifically to create destabilization in the country.
06:40In 2011-2012, President Assad releasing two heavy groups of criminals.
06:47One became Shabihah, and they were heavy criminals who were doing destabilization during the demonstrations,
06:53basically initiate fights between the police and the demonstrators,
06:58and then causing really messy situations for the demonstrators when police were using the lethal weapon.
07:05And another group was heavily affiliated to al-Qaeda.
07:09Now, all these people who were affiliated to al-Qaeda, they were released in 2011.
07:14In 2012, they went to Iraq, they went to all other places,
07:18and most of them came as two prominent terrorist groups.
07:22One was ISIS, another was Jabhat al-Nusra.
07:25Right now it's al-Nusra Front.
07:26So at the end of the day, Assad, like a lot of other dictators,
07:31he twisted our attention towards these terrorist groups.
07:35If you will pay attention, since 2013, since the al-Qaeda massacre,
07:41the entire world not was paying attention to Assad as a criminal who basically was prosecuting his own people
07:46and fighting against his own people.
07:48The entire world was busy with ISIS who basically did dominate in the media and dominate in the events that
07:58happened.
07:58But again, what was beautiful, Syrians who at the beginning some kind of believed in ISIS as the organization that
08:06will protect them from Assad,
08:08they very fast learned a harsh lesson that ISIS and al-Qaeda,
08:13they came not to protect people and fight against Assad,
08:16but to basically destabilize the situation.
08:20And in the same time, they learned that they are not against Assad.
08:24They are doing the old dirty job for Assad and terrifying the people.
08:28So at the end of the day, I think, like I said, inside my movie,
08:33I tried to put all this comprehensive story so people can be enlightened and educated.
08:38Because remember, what's happening with ISIS, we fear them because we don't know anything about them.
08:43Now, what our, for example, president don't understand when he created a travel ban,
08:48that to lock the borders, it's not that terrorists not will get inside of our country.
08:54In our days, the terrorism operates under different premises.
08:58ISIS was strong in their propaganda.
09:01I had an ability to interview a lot of sheikhs and a lot of people who've been on different sides.
09:06And I was explained that there is Islam as a religion and there is ideology that ISIS practices.
09:13And practicing for their benefit.
09:15Now, for example, during Ramadan, the most holiest months for the people who practice in the religion,
09:21they are happy, they are praying, worshiping the God,
09:26and they're fasting and they're having the dinners after the sun goes down.
09:32They're the most peaceful in that moment.
09:34For ISIS, it's the most bloodiest period during Ramadan.
09:37So you can see the difference between the ideology and the religion.
09:41And I learned this.
09:42I learned this because for me, it was important to educate people and to explain this.
09:48Now, what people don't understand that there is a lot of sleeping cells in United States,
09:53in European Union, and to fight propaganda of ISIS,
09:56and ISIS right now may be not so strong with their propaganda,
09:59but previously they were strong.
10:01People who are far away from ISIS, who are not like Syrians who have been exposed to atrocities
10:07and knowing the truth of ISIS, people on a long distance buying this propaganda
10:12and becoming a part of ISIS.
10:14That's the problem.
10:15So we need to fight ISIS in the same tactics that ISIS did this.
10:19So, for example, in my movie, I explain in this, I'm showing the true eyes of ISIS.
10:24I'm showing the truth about ISIS.
10:27And at the end of the day, you know what?
10:28I hope more and more people can learn about this, understand what is this.
10:32And I hope even our governments, we did a screenings in the Congress, bipartisan screenings.
10:38So I hope that our governments can learn that in our days to fight the terrorism,
10:43it's to cooperate with the intelligence and not to just lock the borders.
10:47Because, for example, locking the borders against the people who are seeking shelter,
10:52we're not fighting terrorism.
10:54Kids, you know what is interesting in this situation in the Middle East?
10:58We're usually saying that the wars fought between men, adults.
11:02Here, the kids started the revolution.
11:05And the kids were the targets of all these Islamic groups, like Al-Qaeda, like ISIS.
11:13Now, kids also, without afraid, went into the war.
11:17I met a lot of kids who were part of Free Syrian Army who voluntarily went into that.
11:21So it was interesting to see the dynamics.
11:24And you know what is the problem?
11:25If we're shutting our door in front of these who are seeking shelter, these kids,
11:30then, you know what, Al-Qaeda or ISIS gladly will provide them, yes.
11:34And then brainwashing.
11:35I met kids that have been brainwashed by ISIS.
11:39And in my movie, you saw one of the kids, Ali, I think, 18 years old.
11:43He was 16 when he was in ISIS.
11:45And I spoke with him.
11:46And I said, when you were there, if they were saying to you,
11:50kill your mom and kill your family, will you do this?
11:52He said, yes.
11:54So it's horrible brainwashing mechanism.
11:58And to reverse this mechanism, it's sometimes, I met with the kids who've been safely reversed back to the normal
12:04life.
12:05But it's taking a lot of time.
12:07It's from four to six to eight months to reverse the mechanism of brainwashing back.
12:11So it is something that we're not allowed to happen.
12:15We're not allowed that these kids who are seeking shelter will fall in the hands of all these terroristic groups.
12:21Otherwise, we're not fighting terrorism.
12:23We're creating the terrorism.
12:25Yes.
12:25Did you know when you started working on this project just how important the children of Syria are to the
12:30war and to recruitment for ISIS?
12:33No.
12:34It's interesting how you mentioned this.
12:36Essential figures in your documentary.
12:38You know what?
12:38For me, I was at the beginning thinking in 2015, in the beginning, only about certain elements.
12:45It's refuges.
12:46It's their story.
12:46And then I found myself that I need to tell the story about lost generation of Syrian kids.
12:54But at the same time, when I was finishing the movie, I realized it's not about lost.
12:58They're the future generation.
12:59And for me, when I'm showing all these three amazing images, horrifying images, we can't say amazing, images that the
13:08entire world's familiar.
13:09Like, Elon Kurdi at the beginning of the movie, the three-year-old child whose body found on the shores
13:14of Turkey.
13:15When we're seeing his body, for me, this image kind of symbolizing the death of younger generation, because it's how
13:23it started.
13:23The kids were tortured and killed for a simple thing, graffiti.
13:27Right.
13:27Then, and it was September 2015.
13:30Then, last year, when I was in August on the border of Syria, exactly on the 18th of August, I
13:36was interviewing Abdelbasid Sarut.
13:37It was like second or third interview.
13:39You know, Amran Dhanesh happened to be saved, and all this image of the child, five-year-old child in
13:47an ambulance, everybody saw.
13:49Everybody were horrified.
13:50For me, this image symbolizing struggle and survival.
13:56And then, Banna Alabet, amazing child, in December 2016, last year again, when she was fleeing from Aleppo and survived
14:05this, she's the hope for the future.
14:08So, all these three kids, like three, five, and seven, it's interesting.
14:12Three, the Elon, five, Amran, seven, Banna.
14:15Right now, she's eight.
14:16She's just been with me in New York.
14:17And you know what, it's interesting how I can show through these images that people have been connected, all this
14:24timeline and all this story of death, struggle and survival, and hope for the future.
14:29And you know what, you can see also in the movie how amazingly creative these kids and how inspirational they
14:36are, how much, you know what, beliefs they have, how much optimism they have.
14:41For example, we, we've been on Maidan, and we were burning the tires.
14:47You saw the kids in Aleppo burning the tires to cover everything from the smoke, covering with the smoke so
14:54the planes can't bomb the houses, or kids who creating some kind of different variations of the food instead of
15:01starving.
15:01So, it's, it's interesting to see this great spirit of these kids.
15:05Did you get any reaction from Congress when you screened the movie from them?
15:10Did any, have you gotten any reactions from politicians?
15:13You know what, it's interesting, because all of them said the same thing, like every human after watching the movie
15:19asking me, what shall we do?
15:22What can we do?
15:24Please tell us.
15:25It's interesting, and for them it was also kind of a learning process, like I was telling you about ISIS.
15:31For them it was a healthy learning process about a lot of things that they not were just aware of.
15:36And it's, I hope that the movie, for example, for the first time, I saw that after every Q&A,
15:43after every event with the movie, the same question was asked.
15:47What shall we do?
15:48What can we do?
15:49What, uh, how come something like this happening?
15:53So, it's, it's interesting that the movie is causing the reaction and people ready to do this, something.
16:00And the Congress actually doing.
16:01They, um, in May when we were doing, being there, actually what happened, it was a Caesar's bill with the
16:09sanctions against Assad and the people who supported him.
16:11It's passed the house, so slowly, slowly, our government's working on different suggestions and some kind of things to find
16:21the, find the way how to bring stability there back.
16:25Right.
16:25And you're an American citizen.
16:27Yes.
16:27And, um, you know, there, a lot of Americans are, uh, they're going to be very enlightened by this because
16:34they don't consider like, oh, that my, my child could go to school and a bombing could happen and they
16:40could end up just being a blood stain on the ground.
16:42Or they could end up having to burn tires to keep, you know, airplanes from bombing their, their apartment buildings.
16:49Or they could, you know, spray some political graffiti and end up being tortured to death.
16:56Now they're enlightened.
16:57What would you like to see America do?
17:00What steps beyond, uh, what you've seen Congress do already?
17:03I think first of all, Americans need to be reminded about freedom of speech for what these people are fighting,
17:09uh, fighting since 2001 freedom of speech, human rights, uh, uh, freedom of expression.
17:15This is what they're fighting.
17:16And I think we as Americans need to be reminded about these essential values that we are given by the
17:21funding fathers.
17:22So we need to preserve these things.
17:24I who born in Russia and I'm American citizen.
17:26I'm so thankful for United States who gave me all these chances that I can go long and bring these
17:35stories to the entire world.
17:36And for example, if I was in Russia, I will, I will be silenced.
17:39So at the end of the day, we need to cherish these events because at the end of the day,
17:43things like this can happen and we can lose this.
17:46We can lose because you know what science, what I saw in Syria, what I saw in Vinch on fire
17:52in Ukraine,
17:52and what's happening in our country these days, kind of showing the parallels between the events.
17:58For me, what I witnessed there already happening here.
18:01Maybe Americans don't realizing, but we are in a civil war, different type, but we are in a civil war.
18:07Do Americans aware that we had since the beginning of this year, 274 mass shootings?
18:14I don't think that media somehow brought it up, but we need to stand for what we believe and what
18:20we have.
18:21Otherwise, we can lose it like this in a heartbeat.
18:24And I think for every filmmaker, for every person in my craft who is doing movies and telling these stories,
18:31and we as filmmakers, we as documentarians, we have this ability and we're not binded by any networking rules or
18:38by any limitations.
18:39We have the chance to express ourselves freely.
18:42We need to preserve this because otherwise, tomorrow, we may not be able to tell these stories.
18:48And you know what, and slowly and slowly, we become an authoritarian state.
18:52So we need to stand for our grounds.
18:54We need to stand for what our founding fathers gave us, and we need to cherish this.
19:00One last question before I let you go.
19:03If you could hand deliver this documentary to somebody, who would you give it to?
19:08Oh, that's a really interesting question.
19:14I think the world leaders, it's not only one person.
19:18I think the world leaders, it's the people who are ruling the world, and I think it's not only one
19:24person.
19:24It just can't come from one person.
19:26I think every world leader needs to see this.
19:28Every world leader needs to learn from this.
19:31And I think it's really important because I saw, I'm going to step back, for example, Winter on Fire, my
19:37previous movie.
19:38Look at the Venezuela.
19:40Venezuela using Winter on Fire on the street, showing this on the streets, underground, and it inspired them to stand
19:46against the current dictator.
19:48It's all over the news that they used Winter on Fire as the model and as the manual for the
19:53revolution.
19:53So, Ukraine inspired people today.
19:57Last year, Brazil was inspired by this movie, and up until today, opposition using this in all their stuff, in
20:04all how they're dealing and how they're standing against dictatorship or their president.
20:08So, it's interesting.
20:09So, I want the government to see this.
20:11I want the government to learn from these lessons, and I want that the people who are on the ground,
20:17and us, basically, who are the people in this country?
20:20We are the people.
20:22We are the ones who are basically choosing this person or this person to represent us in the Congress.
20:28So, we as Americans, we can easily push the people who represent us in the Congress to do things, to
20:33preserve what we have in our hands in order not to lose this.
20:37And I think, for me, that all governments, that all governments officials need to see this.
20:42And I'm trying to do this.
20:43I'm doing trainings for Department of Homeland Security.
20:46We did events for the Congress.
20:48We're doing a lot of things with the use of the movies.
20:50So, hopefully, we can get more and more eyes on this movie.
20:54Right.
20:55So, both of your movies have so much footage by citizen journalists.
21:01It's just interesting to know that you want to get across the message to world leaders that wherever people are
21:09peacefully protesting, there's going to be a lot of phones recording.
21:13So, the truth will get out there, whether it was the people or if it was the peacekeepers that, you
21:20know, are causing aggression.
21:21But I think these days, the technology helping to preserve the history and, at the same time, to bring the
21:27truth.
21:27Because the technology in these days helping us to fight the wars, I think the technology in these days, this
21:34was what we're fighting right now, with propaganda, with all.
21:37It's, basically, the weapon is social media because of a lot of fake news and all kind of propaganda stuff
21:44that social created.
21:45It's the cameras who are creating this stuff.
21:49So, in our days, cameras and technology are the weapon.
21:53And I think it's the weapon that preserves the situations.
21:56It's the weapon that can show the truth.
21:58And I think it's important to the government to know the truth and the reality of what's happening in all
22:04other countries and not to allow for their countries to fall into these traps.
22:10Thank you so much for being here.
22:12The documentary is Christ from Syria.
22:14You can see it on HBO.
Comments