- 29 minutes ago
The Emmy nominee stopped by the THR offices for a candid conversation.
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00:00Hi, this is Mariah Gullow from The Hollywood Reporter, and I'm here with Laverne Cox, and this is Meet Your
00:05Emmy nominees. Hi, Laverne.
00:07Hi.
00:08So, Laverne is an outstanding guest actress in a drama series for Orange is the New Black.
00:14Oh my gosh, that sounds so good.
00:16Do you like it better than comedy series?
00:19I just like, I like that. I still can't believe that the Academy has recognized this, and I think it's
00:27different for me this time, the second time around,
00:29because I'm an Emmy voter now, so I see how many submissions there are, and I'm just like, it seems
00:35impossible to get a nomination.
00:37So, I'm just so grateful. Thank you, Academy members, for thinking this work was worthy of being recognized.
00:43That means a lot to me, because acting is something I've wanted to do my whole life.
00:48It's the thing that, in my sort of capacity as a public figure, I'm called upon to do a lot
00:54of different things,
00:55and I always know that I'm an actress first, and I let everyone around me know that, and people sort
01:03of want to forget that.
01:04So, it just feels really good that the thing I love the most, and I work really hard at, is
01:09being acknowledged,
01:10and particularly this episode and this season, that meant so much to me, and means so much to trans folks.
01:17I really want to talk about your character, and the particular episode, Dr. Psycho, but first, I just want to
01:23talk to you a little bit about the process of your second Emmy nominations.
01:28Where were you when you found out you were nominated?
01:31I was in my apartment here in LA, and I had woken up early to watch the nominations, but guest
01:39actors are not announced when they announce everything else.
01:41So, I saw them, and I was excited about all the nominees, and then I got a call from Jamie
01:48over there.
01:49My publicist is over there. You can't see her, but she's on camera. Her name's Jamie.
01:53She's cute. So, Jamie was the, called me and told me, and I was sort of like, I was in
01:59shock.
01:59And then my manager, Paul, calls me when I'm on the phone with Jamie.
02:02I'm like, okay, Jamie, Paul's calling, and then Paul called, and then he congratulated me, and we started talking,
02:08and then I just started crying, because it's been, I've been with Paul for 10 years, and he's my first
02:14agent.
02:15I freelanced with some folks, but he's the first agent that I am, my first legit agent.
02:21And there were just a lot of years where I didn't work at all. I didn't even have auditions.
02:25There were years I didn't have auditions, you know, and it just didn't work.
02:27And I'm like, why am I still in Paul's roster? I thought he was going to drop me.
02:31And he just always saw something in me that I really didn't even fully see in myself.
02:36And it's really been such a journey, and it just meant a lot to me.
02:42And then I called my brother, and then we talked, and I cried again.
02:47I was really overwhelmed in, like, such a, like, I was shaking for, like, two days.
02:54And I was calling people, and I was literally calling my therapist, and I was like, I'm like, it was
02:59so much.
03:00It was just so, and I didn't experience this the first time.
03:03I don't know, to this, for whatever reason, this time, I was just so overwhelmed, and my body just couldn't
03:09handle it.
03:09But I've been doing this wonderful somatic work, somatic therapies, about sort of moving sort of trauma through the body,
03:16and that the body sort of never lies.
03:18And so maybe I'm just more in touch with that stuff now.
03:20And I was just so, I was like, and I needed to just sort of release it.
03:24And I talked to my therapist, and Uzo Aduba gave me some incredible advice.
03:27Thank you, Uzo.
03:28I texted her, and she was like, how do you deal with this?
03:31She has, like, this is her third Emmy nomination.
03:32So I'm like, okay, who do I know who's been through this, who's not, like, so big a star that
03:37they're gonna be like,
03:38what are you talking about?
03:39And Uzo is a huge star, but she's also my friend.
03:43So, yeah, it was, it was really intense.
03:48It's just so, it's just so, it just means a lot to me and to a lot of people.
03:55I mean, I'm still the first trans actor nominated for a primetime Emmy.
03:59Yeah.
04:01There hasn't been another one since the first time I was nominated.
04:04So, it's a big deal.
04:08And, yeah.
04:09What was the most surprising reaction you got from people who have reached out to you,
04:15maybe to congratulate you or to give you feedback about your nomination?
04:21I can't say anything has been surprising.
04:24It's just been, it was, again, overwhelming.
04:26It's just like your, my text, my phone just, like, was lit up, like, for three days of people sort
04:33of congratulating me.
04:34Like, everybody I've ever known who has my phone number or, like, can message me on Twitter or whatever.
04:40So, it was just like, it just was so, again, it was overwhelming.
04:43The love and the support is really, it means so much.
04:48And we just worked so hard.
04:51And it's such a, I think it meant so much to me, too, because I'm barely in.
04:56I'm season four of Orange is the New Black.
04:58And so, I don't have a lot of screen time, but the storyline meant so much to me.
05:02Yeah.
05:02And I worked so hard on it, and I did so much research, and I wanted to make specific choices
05:08so we could really try to put forth what the experience of solitary confinement is on a psychological and emotional
05:17level for people.
05:18So, maybe people could understand that this is indeed a violation of the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution, and it's
05:23cruel and unusual punishment to cut people off from human contact.
05:27And so, it was just really important to me.
05:29I think it was important to me, too, because I was working on a documentary at the time about a
05:32transgender woman who had spent time in prison, Cece McDonald, and had spent a lot of time in solitary confinement.
05:37So, I was shooting it at the same time that we were shooting this documentary, and I was interviewing Cece,
05:43and we were literally in the depths of having conversations with her about her experiences and how, and she talks
05:50about this in Free Cece, how she was suicidal.
05:53And she, it's real stuff.
06:02Yeah.
06:03This is very important to you.
06:05Yeah.
06:05It was really important to me, so I think that's why, too, that it meant a lot to me, because
06:12it's a really important story that people need to know.
06:16Well, I didn't expect to get all of it.
06:18That's okay.
06:19Excuse me.
06:21What do you think it is about the character of Sophia that really connects with the Academy?
06:26Oh my goodness.
06:28I would have to ask Academy voters.
06:30I have no idea.
06:31I'm so grateful that she connects.
06:34I know, I don't know, to be honest.
06:37Yeah.
06:37What I do know is when I connect with characters, it's because I see myself in them, or I see
06:43someone that I know, and there's something human and sort of unexpected.
06:51I love seeing characters on television and in film who feel profoundly human, and maybe I haven't seen that story
07:01before, or I haven't seen it told in a way that highlights the humanity in a different way.
07:06When I saw Moonlight, for example, I know folks like that, but I've never seen those stories told in a
07:12way cinematically that resonated in a new and fresh way and made me understand something in a new way.
07:22I've always watched television to learn, and so I think when a performance and a character is created in such
07:30a way, I understand why folks do what they do in a way that I didn't understand before.
07:37So that's when I connect with something, and I think there's a lot of performances that are nominated this year
07:42that have done that for me.
07:44And so I don't know if that's what, I'm an Academy voter now, so I don't know if that's what
07:48they're connecting to with Sophia, but that's what I connect to with great performances.
07:53Yeah, one of the things that I noticed comparing, like, cinematically Moonlight to how Sophia's character is treated in Orange
08:04is the New Black is that it seems like they give you a lot of time to be expressive with
08:11your face.
08:12Do you feel like you're getting a lot of time while you're shooting? I know that television schedules can be
08:18very fast, but do you feel like, you know, compared to maybe some of your other roles in television that
08:25you've been able to, like, really take the time to get that kind of camera time?
08:31Yes, and I don't know if I would have been able to say this before I was shooting Doubt.
08:36So my CBS show Doubt, which is currently airing on CBS through August 12th, on Saturday nights at 8 p
08:41.m.
08:43So I was shooting Doubt here in L.A., and then I flew back to New York to shoot the
08:48last season of Orange is the New Black.
08:50And on Doubt, I'm playing a lawyer, it's network television, we have to get in commercials, right?
08:55And so it was so much, so many of my notes were like, pace, pace, pace it up, basically talk
09:00faster.
09:01And so I got back to Orange is the New Black and Nick Sandow, I'm like, hey Nick, I love
09:04you.
09:05Nick was directing, he's such a good director too, he's brilliant after brilliant director.
09:09Nick was directing and I was like, still in Doubt mode, I was like, I was speeding through, he was
09:13like, you can take your time, you can slow down.
09:16I swear to you, I will never forget that because just having, it's a life lesson too, that you can
09:22slow down, you can take your time.
09:24That's a big life lesson for me right now, trying to slow myself down.
09:27But absolutely, I got back to Orange and I was like, oh my God, there's time.
09:31There's time to luxuriate, to really have the moment, to find the moment, to discover it.
09:40I don't think about expressing things through my face, I understand that it is a visual medium, but I try
09:47to just live in the truth of whatever the moment is.
09:50And what's been really interesting, watching my work, is like, I'm like, oh, I did that.
09:55I'm like, surprised myself about what is going on with my face or my body.
09:59I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
10:01Because ideally, I'm not thinking about that.
10:04I'm thinking about what is the reaction, like acting is reacting.
10:07What is the truthful reaction to the circumstances, to the other character, what they're saying, to what the director may
10:15have given me.
10:16What is my organic reaction to the external stimuli, or what's going on in my head, or emotionally for me,
10:23or what's triggered for me emotionally by the circumstances.
10:26So having those reactions be organic and be truthful in the moment is always what I'm striving for.
10:34So I'm always surprised, often, with like, oh, I didn't think I was doing that.
10:41But that's just what is happening in the moment.
10:44I do make specific choices about the character in terms of how she talks and walks and moves.
10:48But then even within that, there should be a space of the discovery of the unknown.
10:55For me, when I can have a moment when I'm shooting of discovery where something happens that I did not
11:03expect.
11:04Either the other actor has done something in the scene, or actors have done something that sparks something that I
11:09didn't expect,
11:10or the director gives me a note, and that didn't, or just something comes up and I allow it to
11:14come up,
11:14and something unexpected happens, that is really the best, those are the best moments for me as an actor.
11:20I noticed at the end, the last time we see your character in the last season,
11:26you're in a maximum security prison, and you're handcuffed to a wall, and you're receiving some information.
11:33I won't spoil it for anyone, but your face is telling an entire story.
11:40Aw, thank you.
11:42Well, what's interesting for me about, I mean, my training is, I studied with my current acting coach,
11:48who coached me on this episode that I'm nominated for, Brad Calcaterra.
11:51Thank you, Brad.
11:52Brad in New York, and then, but my acting mentor, Susan Batson,
11:56both Brad and Susan actually talk about layering moments, right?
11:59So that there's the text, and then there's the subtext, and then there's the sort of emotional life,
12:04and then there's the physicality, and then there's the sensory condition.
12:07In any human moment, there's so many things going on right now.
12:11I'm aware right now of, like, kind of how cold it is in the room.
12:14I'm aware of how my ass feels in the chair, and, like, how my leg is maybe going a little
12:20numb,
12:20because it's crossed right now.
12:21I'm doing all that, and I'm having this conversation about Orange is going to be black.
12:24And then I'm thinking about the date I had last night, and how it went.
12:27So there's all these things, so we as human beings are operating and running so many things at the same
12:33time.
12:34And so, so much of the work that I try to do as an actor is to allow all these
12:38things to live at the same time,
12:40so that it's not just operating on one level.
12:44And Susan Batson really instilled that in me, and Brad has reinforced it.
12:48That we can have multiple things going on at once.
12:51We can feel, I've been so, there have been so many moments, right?
12:55I was just getting the Emmy nomination reaction, the day I had that, when I was sort of so overwhelmed,
13:00and I'm crying and laughing at the same time.
13:03So that, like, that, that, these, this is, this is life.
13:07Yeah.
13:07This is what, and so just allowing our humanity and the full range of emotion to live, to just let
13:14it live.
13:15And it'll, and when I let that live, when we as actors let that live, it should be something,
13:21things should happen unexpectedly, that we didn't know would happen.
13:24And that's, that's, those are the gifts.
13:28Mm-hmm.
13:28What was the most challenging thing about that season for you, just performing that role?
13:33Oh, gosh.
13:35I think it was what, what, what I believed was required, psychologically and emotionally,
13:41that, that what we do as actors is we mine our own, the depths of our own personal experiences,
13:48so, and, and understand the truth of those, so that we can give those moments to our characters.
13:54So, understanding that solitary confinement, that, that Sophia basically was coming out of having been,
14:00uh, physically assaulted in her salon, right?
14:02Mm-hmm.
14:02So, she's physically assaulted in her salon, and she goes to Caputo for help, and she certainly threatens Caputo,
14:09which may have caused him to, um, place her in solitary confinement for her protection.
14:14So, she's still dealing with the trauma of having been attacked, right?
14:17And then, the consequences of her being victimized is her ending up victimized again.
14:24So, those two things are happening.
14:26Um, I, I sort of made the choice when we, we understand that she's not eating,
14:30that she's been, well, she decides to fill out her cell when she puts her food into the toilet.
14:34Um, but she's probably not eating, so she's thinner than she was the last time,
14:37because the prison has become privatized.
14:40The makeup and wigs that she got to, you know, wear, the wigs she got to wear because she worked
14:44in the salon,
14:45and the makeup she presumably got from commissary, um, she doesn't have access to anymore.
14:49So, she looks very differently than when we saw her before.
14:52That was important to tell, in terms of telling the story.
14:56Um, but then going into the depths of that trauma, the trauma, the PTSD that she was sort of experiencing,
15:02the being cut off from all human contact.
15:04The moment, um, when Caputo says to her that Crystal knows that you're here,
15:10and I'm like, you need to call my, I say, you need to call my wife.
15:12And that moment, when he says that to me, it's like,
15:19I'm already cut off from all human contact,
15:21and you're telling me the person I love most is not checking for me.
15:24It's like no one cares anymore, and if I, the feeling of sort of being thrown away,
15:29and being, going to that place, for me as an actor, in my own personal narrative,
15:38um, and I just went there again.
15:40Um, I don't want to linger there too long, because it's not, it doesn't feel good.
15:44Going there, and having to be there, um, for days, um, for an entire season.
15:50Um, going to those places of, of abandonment, of trauma, um, where I did not want to live.
15:55Um, where I was willing to die or get out of the prison.
15:59I mean, I think that there's, there's a chance when I flood my cell that they may not come and
16:03get me.
16:04You know, that I could just drown.
16:05Um, there was a chance when I set myself on fire that I might not live.
16:09Um, so, I mean, I think, there's a part of me that's like, they're gonna, I,
16:14it's Sophia that's thinking they're gonna come and get me out of here.
16:17They're not gonna let me die.
16:18But, they've let all this happen to me, so far.
16:21They've let all these things happen to me in prison that are happening to transgender people in prison right now.
16:28Yeah.
16:28That trans folks are being, are being placed in solitary and abused and then placed in solitary, right?
16:33Um, the day, the night before I got, I found out about the Emmy nomination, a woman in upstate New
16:39York named Erica King.
16:41Um, was, we found out that she had been, um, you know, she had been, um, proposition for sex.
16:47She went to the, um, CO's in, in, um, a prison upstate New York and they were like, oh, this
16:53is just a problem.
16:54And they, and they, and they allegedly beat her to a pulp and then threw her in solitary.
16:59And she finally got a note out.
17:01She, every time she would write, write a letter out to, um, try to get it to the people outside
17:05to find out what was going on,
17:06they'd give the letter back to her shredded up according to reports.
17:10And then she finally got a letter out and we found out about it.
17:13And, um, she was so terribly beaten and then placed in solitary.
17:20I'm like, Sophia was terribly beaten and placed in solitary.
17:25These, these things, um, what the fuck?
17:29Yeah.
17:29I mean, I just, I, I, I, what the fuck, um, is going on in the world?
17:35Um, and, and, and people are, trans folks are experiencing this kind of abuse and discrimination.
17:42And then we're further stigmatized by, um, an administration that is doing what it's doing.
17:52Absolutely.
17:53So, um, it's just, it's, this stuff is really real.
17:56And it's real for me.
17:57And, and, um, and when you act, it has to be real for you.
18:01And it has to be this personal.
18:02Um, and the, the, the storyline was deeply personal for me.
18:06Yeah.
18:07And I, I just want to say, you know, as a testament to your performance, your character, you can empathize
18:13with, you can see her go through so many things, but she still maintains her power.
18:18She's still a powerful person.
18:20Yeah.
18:21No matter what.
18:21She's, she's a survivor.
18:22There's something in her that, and, and I, and, and I love that they wrote, I love, when I read
18:29the script, I was like, fuck yeah.
18:32She's, I'm cursing a lot today.
18:33I'm like, but I was like, fuck yeah, she's gonna set this cell on fire.
18:36And she knows how to do that.
18:38And she's, she's like, she's gonna fight for her life.
18:41If she's gonna go, if she's gonna go down, she's gonna go down fighting.
18:45Absolutely.
18:46And there are, um, there are transgender folks all over the world who are fighting for their lives right now.
18:55Yes.
18:55And, um, a lot of white girls who've gone down fighting, um, a lot.
19:03And, um, I think about those girls a lot.
19:08Can we talk a little bit about, uh, the transgender military ban?
19:13Um, it's very confusing right now.
19:15I think there was just a report today that the Navy is saying that they're keeping transgender people despite what
19:20the president says.
19:21Do you have any takes on what's happening?
19:24Oh, God.
19:25Um, I, I, I made a statement yesterday, and I'm so emotional right now.
19:30I don't know what I'm gonna say right now.
19:32If, um, if it comes to it, and I'm really tired of being loving and magnanimous when it comes to,
19:37um, having conversations about the current political climate.
19:41Um, as I just stated, that there, there are trans folks literally fighting for our lives right now.
19:52All over the world.
19:53And, um, when the president of the United States, um, tweets out statements that we are burdensome,
20:00and, and it further stigmatizes, um, trans folks, it creates, um, it reinforces an environment that is already hostile to
20:08our existence.
20:09Um, and, ah, I've said a lot about this already.
20:15And what I will, but what I will say to trans people is that despite, despite what, what he has
20:23said,
20:23despite what other folks say, that you are worthy, and I believe that you are anointed, and you are placed
20:28here on this planet for a divine purpose.
20:31It is your job to connect with that purpose no matter what anybody says to you about you.
20:39And, and we, we have to fight, um, to be ourselves, but it is a fight that is worth it.
20:45I have fought to be myself.
20:47I'm still fighting to be myself, but girl, it's worth it.
20:50Look at me now.
20:52Absolutely.
20:53And, ah, to end on a more positive note, um, in Los Angeles, the school districts have long been very
20:59supportive of policies that protect trans kids.
21:03Yes.
21:04How important is that to, to the youth you speak at, speak with at schools?
21:09You speak to the youth at schools.
21:11I've often cited, um, it was Assembly Bill 1266 that I believe, um, became law in 2013, that Jerry Brown
21:18signed into law, I believe in 2012.
21:20I may have my dates wrong, but I believe those are the dates.
21:22And those, that, that bill, um, um, required schools to allow trans folks in the state of California to be
21:28able to play on the sports teams
21:29that are consistent with how we identify, to use facilities that are consistent with how we identify.
21:34And the, the trans folks and the parents, their testimony of how much safer they feel their kids are because
21:41of this policy.
21:43We, hearts and minds have to change, and that's what we're, what, what, what my job is in the media,
21:47is to work to change hearts and minds.
21:49But in, we also need to change public policy, because policies matter when it comes to, um, protecting folks and
21:55making sure that, that, that our, that our lives are treated as if they have value.
21:59And I've often cited, um, um, Assembly Bill 1266 and the policies that have been, were, were put into place
22:05here in California as an example for what we can do on a national level
22:09Yeah.
22:09To protect trans kids and, um, make them feel that their lives are valuable and they're safe at school so
22:14that they can do what they're at school for is, is to learn.
22:17And, um, we, we hear, I've heard from trans parents, um, parent, or to say, parents of trans kids and
22:24trans kids that they feel so much safer and, um, protected and valued.
22:29And that's what we all need to feel.
22:30Yeah. And because of, uh, Los Angeles being such a progressive state, um, there are a lot of trans actors
22:37that are auditioning, going out to auditions today.
22:39Can you give them one piece of advice?
22:41Can I tell you that, um, so the acting class at Brad Calcaterra, my acting coach in New York City,
22:45started in 2010, seven years ago.
22:47It was for LGBT actors.
22:49When we started the class, me and Jamie Clayton, Jamie Clayton, you may know from Sense8,
22:53there were really only two trans actors in the class.
22:55I went back after Orange is New Black came out and there were like 11 trans actors in the class.
23:00Can I tell you?
23:01And so what's been so exciting about, um, this moment, this Orange is New Black moment that is so much
23:07bigger than me,
23:08it always has been, is that there's so many trans folks who are inspired to pursue their dreams of becoming
23:13actors.
23:14And when they didn't think it was possible before.
23:16So what I always say to actors is that you have to, um, work on the craft of it, um,
23:22that you must study.
23:22I'm in acting class now. I have an acting class later tonight.
23:26Um, I was in acting class the day I found out I was nominated for an Emmy.
23:29So train, train, train, continue to be involved, engaged in the process of getting better,
23:34but also learn the business of it as well.
23:36The business of, um, being an actor is just as important as the craft of it.
23:40And then never give up. Never, ever, ever give up.
23:43Be committed to, um, getting better, make your own projects, um, and just persevere.
23:49Um, and, and what is God's will will happen.
23:55Thank you. And Laverne, I don't want to let you go, so I'm going to ask you one more question.
23:58Okay.
23:59Who would you like to sit next to at the Emmys and why?
24:02Oh my gosh. Um, a really hot man.
24:06Um, I think there might be some there.
24:10Um, yeah. Um, a really super-duper hot man who's interested.
24:14Um, cause the, just sitting next to a hot man who's not, who's paying you dust means nothing.
24:19So if you're sitting next to a hot man who's like, single, available, and flirting, that's amazing.
24:26That's perfect.
24:27There's qualifiers, but you have to, you have to be very specific with what you ask for with the universe.
24:31Oh yes, you have to say available.
24:33It's so important.
24:33When you are doing your manifestations, you must be very specific with the universe.
24:38Be intentional, the four agreements, be intentional with your language.
24:43Laverne Cox, thank you so much for being here and we will see you on Emmys night.
24:47See you then.
24:48Bye.
24:49Bye.
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