00:07Grazie a tutti i nostri spettatori per l'euro news.
00:11Tu sei uno dei principi figuri nel processo del Brexit.
00:1510 anni fa, qual è l'assessibilità che hai fatto?
00:1810 anni dopo, il Brexit resta, per l'euro di tutti gli altri, è un giro di gioco.
00:26So, we have to draw the lessons about the reason of the Brexit,
00:32why 52% of the British people vote against Rome.
00:39Bruxelles was presented by everybody, the nationalist side, Farage, Johnson,
00:45as a kind of scapegoat.
00:48Everybody knows that isn't the case.
00:50A part of the answers, a part of the solutions are in Bruxelles,
00:55but just a part.
00:56A large part of the other answers are in London or in the regions.
01:01But nevertheless, the point is that the Brexit is done,
01:07for us is on the book,
01:09and now we have to work in the best way as possible.
01:16The FTA, the trade agreement, is clearly done,
01:22and there will be no cherry picking in the future,
01:25but we have lots of things to do with the UK
01:28for the stability, the security, and the defense of Europe, in my view.
01:33And when I listen to your words,
01:35the impression that I get is that you do believe this process is over.
01:39The conversation of returning to the EU,
01:41is that something that you'd say, it's a fantasy?
01:44No, I don't think so.
01:46I think the Brexit decided by a sovereign vote 10 years ago is done.
01:54But the future is open, and the door is open.
01:58The door is open?
01:59Yes, the door is open.
02:00And the UK governments, the UK authorities,
02:04the UK party, the public parties,
02:07knows clearly what are the conditions.
02:10And what are the conditions?
02:11Because it seems to me, in the UK,
02:14those who have tried to implement Brexit,
02:16they hit a wall with the economy,
02:18because it doesn't really work.
02:19And those who tried to reset,
02:21they struggled to explain how it would work.
02:23You can't have the cake and eat it.
02:26You cannot dance in two weddings at the same time.
02:29So the conditions are very clear.
02:32If you want to join the single market,
02:36being outside of the union,
02:38look at the Norway case.
02:39Norway is inside the single market.
02:43Their choice, the right choice, in my view,
02:46for the mutual benefit,
02:47but they didn't want to be inside the union,
02:53the European Union.
02:54So it's perfectly possible,
02:55but the conditions are for any country
02:59joining the single market, for instance,
03:01to respect the four freedoms
03:03and the indivisibility of the four freedoms.
03:05And to make those decisions,
03:08the next UK prime minister
03:10will have to make very bold choices.
03:13Do you see the political courage
03:15to openly say to the public opinion in the UK,
03:18we are going to start a process
03:20that maybe brings that back into the union?
03:23It will be a sovereign choice of UK
03:25to engage new negotiations,
03:28but the conditions are clear.
03:30I think it will take time.
03:33So in the meantime,
03:35we have a lot to do together,
03:38for instance, for defence,
03:40for security,
03:41for cooperation between the services,
03:44even for investment in artificial intelligence
03:49or new technologies.
03:51I think we have a lot of things to do together.
03:56I have even proposed
03:58to facilitate this cooperation
04:01between the UK and the EU
04:03to create a new body,
04:05which could be a kind of a European Council
04:08for Defence and Security,
04:10on the side of the current institutions,
04:14open to some countries.
04:15We are not longer or no longer
04:17or not yet in the EU, for instance.
04:20Obviously, UK, but also Norway or Ukraine.
04:24When you see that Nigel Farage
04:27and you know him from Brussels,
04:29he really orchestrated this idea
04:31of Brexit liberation for the UK.
04:33Now he's polling very strongly
04:35in the United Kingdom,
04:37even though you could argue
04:38he was not able to deliver on those promises.
04:40Is that something that shocks you?
04:43No, this is the proof that in any case,
04:45in each and every country,
04:48even in France,
04:49we have to address the problems of the people.
04:53and the problems are very serious.
04:58There is even a kind of hunger
05:00in many countries,
05:01in many regions,
05:02about unemployment,
05:04about public services for health,
05:07for transportation,
05:08about uncontrolled migration.
05:11We need to address this problem
05:13at the right level.
05:14This is the difference with Mr Farage.
05:16During the campaign,
05:17Farage said every day,
05:18every night,
05:19that everything is the responsibility
05:21in Brussels as a scapegoat.
05:23It was not true.
05:24And we will get the money.
05:25But now he has no longer
05:27the scapegoat to use,
05:28but he can use the problems of the people.
05:31So we have to find the right answer
05:33at the right level,
05:34national level,
05:35local and regional level.
05:36If there was a sort of re-engagement,
05:38what should the head of the commission do?
05:41How do you go about a re-engagement
05:43if this idea of the UK
05:44may be one day rejoining in some capacity?
05:47Once again,
05:48it will be the choice of the UK
05:49to open this discussion.
05:51And we are ready.
05:53The door is open.
05:54And at that time,
05:56there will be a new negotiation.
05:57I wonder, however,
05:59the return of the UK,
06:00assuming that is the choice
06:02of the UK people,
06:03to say,
06:03we tried,
06:04didn't work,
06:05we want to be back in the Union.
06:06Is that a process
06:07that goes bit by bit,
06:09the way that a country like Ukraine
06:11would have to?
06:11Or do you see a big ban saying,
06:14come on,
06:14they were in the Union,
06:15we can't accelerate?
06:15But the answer is
06:17in the hands of the UK.
06:19If from now to this time
06:22where a new negotiation
06:24will be start,
06:27the UK create a huge divergence
06:30from the standards,
06:32the norms for food,
06:35for security,
06:37we will have a problem.
06:39It will take time,
06:40much more time.
06:41The point is,
06:42if there is no divergence,
06:44no crucial divergence,
06:45it will be very rapid.
06:47And is this conversation...
06:48We can't compare,
06:49we can't confuse
06:50the very long process
06:52in some time
06:53with new countries
06:55we want to access
06:56to the EU
06:57and former member states.
07:00And is this conversation
07:01happening,
07:01would you argue,
07:02based on your political instinct,
07:03as a result of Brexit
07:05did not really deliver
07:06what it promised,
07:07or is it also
07:09the product of Donald Trump,
07:10which now means
07:11the Europeans have realized
07:13they've got to come together?
07:14But we have to explain
07:17that the Europe,
07:18the UK left 10 years ago
07:20is not the same today.
07:22We have provoked
07:23and created a lot of change
07:24in my view,
07:25in a good sense,
07:27in a good direction
07:28because of the COVID crisis,
07:32because of the problem
07:35created by the uncontrolled migration,
07:38because of the financial crisis
07:39through 15 years ago,
07:41and also because
07:42of the incredible war,
07:45the aggression of Russia
07:46against Ukraine.
07:50So each of these crises
07:53provoked a good reaction,
07:55in my view,
07:56of the EU.
07:57So, obviously,
08:00the fact that
08:01the U.S. president
08:03is so aggressive
08:05against us
08:06is an element,
08:09a very important element
08:10for us to be sure
08:12that we need
08:13to do for ourselves
08:15what nobody
08:16will come to do
08:18in our place.
08:19Because you say
08:20the U.S. will no longer
08:21come to rescue
08:22the Europeans.
08:23Don't confuse
08:24and don't confond,
08:25if I may say,
08:26the current U.S. president
08:30of the United States
08:31of America.
08:32For the long term,
08:33we will remain allies
08:35and friends.
08:36You do believe
08:37the relationship
08:38can go back
08:39even after Trump?
08:40I hope so.
08:41But there is a reality
08:41after Brexit.
08:42The idea of exit
08:43in the European Union
08:44no longer became
08:46as popular.
08:47We don't hear in France
08:48the idea of Brexit.
08:49In Italy,
08:50the ideal exit
08:50sort of basically died out.
08:52The populism within the EU
08:54talks about changing
08:55from within,
08:55not leaving.
08:56But the populists
08:57are sometimes clever.
08:59And they know
09:01that what happened
09:02in the world
09:03around us
09:03with Trump,
09:05with the Chinese,
09:06aggressivity for trade
09:08and the aggression
09:09of Russia
09:11gives the proof
09:12to everybody
09:12that we need
09:13to be together.
09:14We are stronger
09:15together
09:15to defend
09:16our interests,
09:17our values
09:19and our continent.
09:21So it's clear
09:22for everybody.
09:22But I don't think
09:23that the populists
09:24in France,
09:25the nationalists
09:25from the far right
09:26and the far left
09:27have changed their mind.
09:30Mrs. Le Pen
09:31when the day
09:33of the Brexit,
09:33the night of the Brexit
09:34said congratulations
09:36to the British people.
09:39They had the courage
09:41to escape
09:42from the European servitude.
09:45So I don't think
09:46they changed their mind.
09:47These people
09:48from the far right
09:49and even in the far left
09:52want to destroy the EU.
09:54They want to destroy the EU.
09:56They are nationalists.
09:57They are nationalists.
09:58You think even today
09:59when we see
10:02a younger candidate
10:03potentially in Bar-de-Là,
10:05you think ultimately
10:05the foundation
10:06has not changed?
10:08I don't know
10:09who will be the candidate.
10:11The problem is
10:12the substance
10:13of their program,
10:15of their ideology.
10:17They want to destroy the EU.
10:18They are anti-European.
10:20You think if there's a way
10:21in which they get to government,
10:23it would be almost fatal
10:24for the European Union
10:25as a construction.
10:26Do you think about that?
10:27Listen to Mr. Bar-de-Là,
10:28you just speak about him.
10:30He said a few days ago
10:32he want to cut
10:33from 50%
10:35half
10:36the budget,
10:38the contribution of France
10:40to the European budget.
10:41That means
10:42they want to destroy the EU.
10:44This is clearly
10:45the consequences
10:46of this decision.
10:48So then going into 2027
10:49and this election,
10:50this is a crucial election
10:52in this country.
10:52Financial markets
10:53are looking at it already.
10:54Not only for France.
10:55Not only for France.
10:56This is a systemic country
10:58to the EU
10:59and a founding member.
11:00How do you see
11:01your role
11:02in this election?
11:03And again,
11:03what you said now
11:03is they want to destroy
11:04the EU.
11:05That's a big statement.
11:06My role here
11:07in the French National Assembly
11:08where we are today
11:10in the French debate
11:11and as a former prime minister
11:13is to work for the unity
11:15of the center right
11:16because I think
11:17that the unity
11:19supporting one single candidate
11:21and acting about
11:23one single program
11:24is the only way
11:26to avoid
11:26the incredible duel
11:31in the second term
11:32of the presidential election
11:33between the two candidates
11:34from the nationalists side.
11:36Would you say
11:36that's an existential threat
11:38to France
11:38and therefore by the EU
11:40if that is what
11:41it comes down to?
11:41I think it would be
11:43dramatic for France
11:43and for Europe.
11:45Do you consider
11:46playing an active role
11:47yourself?
11:47I don't want to
11:49personalize this debate.
11:50I am playing
11:51an active role.
11:52Well, thank you,
11:53Michel Barnier,
11:54on that note.
11:54Thank you so much
11:55for joining us.
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