00:07Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017
00:30about the reasons of the Brexit, why 52% of the British people vote against Rome.
00:39Brussels was presented by everybody, the nationalist side, Farage, Johnson, as a kind of scapegoat.
00:48Everybody knows that isn't the case.
00:50A part of the answers, a part of the solutions are in Brussels, but just a part.
00:56A large part of the other answers are in London or in the regions.
01:01But nevertheless, the point is that the Brexit is done.
01:07For us, it is on the book.
01:09And now we have to work in the best way as possible.
01:15The FTA, the trade agreement, is clearly done.
01:22And there will be no cherry picking in the future.
01:25But we have a lot of things to do with UK for the stability, the security and the defense of
01:31Europe, in my view.
01:32And when I listen to your words, the impression that I get is that you do believe this process is
01:38over.
01:39The conversation of returning to the EU, is that something that you'd say it's a fantasy?
01:44No, I don't think so.
01:46I think the Brexit decided by a sovereign vote 10 years ago is done.
01:54But the future is open and the door is open.
01:58The door is open?
01:59Yes, the door is open.
02:00And the UK governments, the UK authorities, the UK party, the public parties knows clearly what are the conditions.
02:10And what are the conditions?
02:11Because it seems to me, in the UK, those who have tried to implement Brexit, they hit a wall with
02:17the economy because it doesn't really work.
02:19And those who tried to reset, they struggled to explain how it would work.
02:23You can have the cake and eat it.
02:26You cannot dance in two weddings at the same time.
02:29So the conditions are very clear.
02:31If you want to join the single market, being outside of the union, look at the Norway case.
02:39Norway is inside the single market.
02:43Their choice, the right choice in my view, for the mutual benefit.
02:47But they didn't want to be inside the union, the European Union.
02:54So it's perfectly possible.
02:55But the conditions are for any country joining the single market, for instance, to respect the four freedoms and the
03:03indivisibility of the four freedoms.
03:05And to make those decisions, the next UK prime minister will have to make very bold choices.
03:13Do you see the political courage to openly say to the public opinion in the UK, we are going to
03:19start a process that maybe brings us back into the union?
03:22It will be a sovereign choice of the UK to engage in new negotiations.
03:28But the conditions are clear.
03:30I think it will take time.
03:33So in the meantime, we have a lot to do together.
03:38For instance, for defence, for security, for cooperation between the services,
03:44even for investment in artificial intelligence or new technology.
03:51I think we have a lot of things to do together.
03:56And I have even proposed to facilitate this cooperation between the UK and the EU to create a new body,
04:04which could be a kind of a European Council for Defence and Security,
04:10on the side of the current institutions, open to some countries.
04:15We are not longer or no longer or not yet in the EU, for instance, obviously UK, but also Norway
04:23or Ukraine.
04:24When you see that Nigel Farage, and you know him from Brussels,
04:29he really orchestrated this idea of Brexit liberation for the UK.
04:33Now he's polling very strongly in the United Kingdom,
04:37even though you could argue he was not able to deliver on those promises.
04:40Is that something that shocks you?
04:42No, this is the proof that in any case, in each and every country, even in France,
04:49we have to address the problems of the people.
04:53And the problems are very serious.
04:58There is even a kind of hunger in many countries, in many regions,
05:02about unemployment, about public services for health, for transportation, about uncontrolled migration.
05:11We need to address this problem at the right level.
05:14This is the difference with Mr. Farage.
05:16During the campaign, Farage said every day, every night,
05:20everything is the responsibility in Brussels as a scapegoat.
05:23It was not true.
05:24And we will get the money.
05:25But now he has no longer the scapegoat to use,
05:28but he can use the problem of the people.
05:31So we have to find the right answer at the right level,
05:34national level, local and regional level.
05:36If there was a sort of re-engagement, what should the head of the commission do?
05:41How do you go about a re-engagement?
05:43If this idea of the UK may be one day rejoining in some capacity?
05:47Once again, it will be the choice of the UK to open this discussion.
05:51And we are ready.
05:53The door is open.
05:54And at that time, there will be a new negotiation.
05:57I wonder, however, the return of the UK,
06:00assuming that is the choice of the UK people to say,
06:03we tried, didn't work, we want to be back in the union.
06:06Is that a process that goes bit by bit,
06:09the way that a country like Ukraine would have to?
06:11Or do you see a big ban saying,
06:14come on, they were in the union, we can't accelerate?
06:15The answer is in the hands of the UK.
06:19If from now to this time where a new negotiation will be start,
06:27the UK create a huge divergence from the standards,
06:32the norms for food, for security,
06:37we will have a problem.
06:39It will take time, much more time.
06:41The point is, if there is no divergence,
06:44no crucial divergence, it will be very rapid.
06:47And is this conversation...
06:48We can't compare, we can't confuse the very long process
06:52in some time with new countries we want to access
06:56to the EU and former member states.
06:59And is this conversation happening, would you argue,
07:02based on your political instinct,
07:03as a result of Brexit did not really deliver what it promised?
07:07Or is it also the product of Donald Trump,
07:10which now means the Europeans have realized
07:13they've got to come together?
07:15But we have to explain that the Europe,
07:18the UK left 10 years ago,
07:20is not the same today.
07:22We have provoked and created a lot of change,
07:25in my view, in a good sense, good direction,
07:28because of the COVID crisis,
07:32because of the problem created by the uncontrolled migration,
07:38because of the financial crisis, too, 15 years ago,
07:41and also because of the incredible war,
07:45the aggression of Russia against Ukraine.
07:50So, each of these crises provoked a good reaction,
07:55in my view, of the EU.
07:57So, obviously, the fact that the US president
08:03is so aggressive against us
08:06is an element, a very important element for us
08:10to be sure that we need to do for ourselves
08:14what nobody will come to do in our place.
08:19Because you say the US will no longer come
08:21to rescue the Europeans.
08:23Don't confuse and don't confront,
08:25if I may say, the current US president
08:30of the United States of America.
08:32For the long term, we will remain allies and friends.
08:36You do believe the relationship can go back,
08:39even after Trump?
08:40I hope so.
08:41But there is a reality after Brexit.
08:42The idea of exiting the European Union
08:44no longer became as popular.
08:47We don't hear in France the idea of Brexit.
08:49In Italy, the intellects sort of basically died out.
08:52The populism within the EU talks about changing
08:55from within, not leaving.
08:56But the populists are sometimes clever.
08:59And they know that what happened in the world around us,
09:04with Trump, with the Chinese,
09:06aggressivity for trade,
09:08and the aggression of Russia
09:11give the proof to everybody
09:12that we need to be together.
09:14We are stronger together to defend our interests,
09:18our values, and our continent.
09:21So it's clear for everybody.
09:22But I don't think that the populists in France,
09:25the nationalists from the far right and the far left,
09:27have changed their mind.
09:30Mrs. Le Pen, when the day of the Brexit,
09:33the night of the Brexit,
09:34said congratulations to the British people,
09:39they had the courage to escape
09:42from the European servitude.
09:45So I don't think they changed their mind.
09:47These people from the far right
09:49and even the far left,
09:52want to destroy the EU.
09:54They want to destroy the EU.
09:56They are nationalists.
09:57They are nationalists.
09:58You think even today,
09:59when we see a younger candidate,
10:03potentially, in Bardella,
10:05you think ultimately the foundation
10:06has not changed?
10:08I don't know who will be the candidate.
10:11The problem is the substance.
10:13That has not changed.
10:14Of the program, of their ideology.
10:17They want to destroy the EU.
10:18They are anti-European.
10:20You think if there's a way
10:21in which they get to government,
10:23it would be almost fatal
10:24for the European Union as a construction?
10:26Do you think about that?
10:27Listen to Mr. Bardella.
10:28You just speak about him.
10:30He said a few days ago
10:32he want to cut from 50%
10:35half the budget,
10:38the contribution of France
10:40to the European budget.
10:41That means he want to destroy the EU.
10:44This is clearly the consequences
10:46of this decision.
10:47So then going into 2027
10:49and this election,
10:50this is a crucial election in this country.
10:53Financial markets are looking at it already.
10:54Not only for France.
10:55Not only for France.
10:56This is a systemic country
10:58to the EU and a founding member.
11:00How do you see your role in this election?
11:03And again, what you said now
11:03is they want to destroy the EU.
11:05That's a big statement.
11:06The goal here in the French National Assembly,
11:08where we are today,
11:10in the French debate,
11:11and as a former prime minister,
11:13is to work for the unity of the center right.
11:16Because I think that the unity,
11:19supporting one single candidate
11:21and acting about one single program
11:24is the only way to avoid
11:26the incredible duel
11:30in the second term
11:32of the president's election
11:33between the two candidates
11:34from the nationalist side.
11:36Would you say that's
11:37an existential threat to France
11:38and therefore by the EU,
11:40if that is what it comes down to?
11:41I think it would be dramatic
11:43for France and for Europe.
11:45Do you consider playing
11:46an active role yourself?
11:47I don't want to personalize this debate.
11:50I am playing an active role.
11:52Well, thank you, Michel Barnier,
11:54on that note.
11:54Thank you so much for joining us.
12:00Thank you.
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