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Has Brexit made Europe stronger or weaker? MEPs go face-to-face on The Ring
What has Brexit taught Europe about sovereignty, migration, economic competitiveness, democratic accountability, and disinformation? Has it strengthened the case for deeper European integration? MEPs debate the future of EU-UK relations on this edition of The Ring.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2026/06/24/has-brexit-made-europe-stronger-or-weaker-meps-go-face-to-face-on-the-ring
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What has Brexit taught Europe about sovereignty, migration, economic competitiveness, democratic accountability, and disinformation? Has it strengthened the case for deeper European integration? MEPs debate the future of EU-UK relations on this edition of The Ring.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2026/06/24/has-brexit-made-europe-stronger-or-weaker-meps-go-face-to-face-on-the-ring
Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages
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00:08Hello there and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show broadcasting from the European Parliament here in Brussels.
00:16I'm Maeve MacMathen and as you know, here on The Ring, members of the European Parliament go face to face
00:22on some of the most tricky issues of our time.
00:25This week, as we mark 10 years since the UK voted to leave the European Union, we're asking if the
00:31bloc has changed for the better or worse, and if the UK could ever, or should, rejoin.
00:37To set the scene, here's our Louise Albertus.
00:42A decade has passed since the UK made the momentous decision to leave the European Union.
00:48We'll take the trouble, I'll take the trouble, I'll take the trouble.
00:53After 47 years of membership, the Brexit vote sent shockwaves through Europe and reshaped Britain as we know it.
01:01Ten years on, seven prime ministers have come and gone, and this week another one met the same fate.
01:08In an emotional speech at number 10, Keir Starmer stepped down after days of mounting pressure.
01:15What has Brexit taught Europe about sovereignty, migration, economic competitiveness, democratic accountability and disinformation?
01:24Has it strengthened the case for European integration?
01:27And with memories of the referendum still shaping the political debate, could Britain ever consider rejoining the bloc?
01:33Or is that possibility still too politically divisive?
01:40The questions we have for our contenders, let's meet them.
01:45Barry Andrews, an Irish MEP from the Liberal Renew Europe Group.
01:49He's the chair of the Committee on Development, vice-chair of the Delegation for Relations with Palestine
01:54and a member of the delegation to the EU-UK Parliamentary Partnership Assembly.
01:59On the 10th anniversary of the Brexit vote, he says,
02:02Brexit was and is a con job.
02:05The UK has not been as invisible and irrelevant on the European stage as it is now since, in my
02:11view,
02:12before the Battle of Agincourt of 1415.
02:16Sander Smit, a Dutch MEP from the European Conservatives and Reformists Group.
02:21He serves in the Committee on Constitutional Affairs and has also been vice-chair of the Committee on Fisheries
02:27earlier in the current parliamentary term.
02:29We still deeply regret Brexit and miss the UK's crucial voice for fiscal and financial discipline in the European Council,
02:37he says.
02:38Our future lies in a stronger partnership.
02:40Let the UK and EU countries move beyond the past and work together as natural sovereign allies.
02:50So Barry Andrews and Sander Smit, welcome to The Ring. Thanks for joining us.
02:54So here we are, 10 years on. Has Brexit helped or hindered the European Union, Sander?
03:00I think it has really hindered the European Union in achieving a union which also takes into account several national
03:06sensitivities,
03:07also protects the national veto. I think the United Kingdom would have been a very valuable ally for my own
03:14member state,
03:15but also for other member states in Council and for my group in particular.
03:19Of course, the ECR group was founded by the British Conservative Party and we still sorely miss them, I think.
03:25You would agree, I'm sure, Barry Andrews, with that. The EU is in a weaker place now.
03:29Well, I think definitely the UK is in a weaker place. I think the European Union has a capacity to
03:34evolve
03:34and I think there has been very significant developments in the European Union in the last 10 years and in
03:40the world.
03:41And the basic lesson is that we live in a much more contested world and we're much better together as
03:47an EU27.
03:48So I think that we are beginning to learn that lesson. But for the UK, it has been a total
03:53disaster.
03:53What other lessons has Brussels and the EU learnt in the past 10 years?
03:57I think we should learn from Brexit, first and foremost, that we need to respect national sovereignty,
04:05maybe also have tailored membership, not doing away with the Copenhagen criteria but certain opt-outs and not have a
04:13one-size-fits-all approach.
04:15And I think not controlling migration, not taking into account these national specificities has really also caused Brexit.
04:24So I think we need to self-reflect a bit.
04:27I think if you did self-reflect, you would recognise that actually Britain had a very tailor-made membership of
04:33the European Union for an awful long time,
04:35including being outside Schengen, including being outside the Europe and having a very, very differentiated form of membership.
04:43And this still wasn't enough on this occasion. And what has happened since then in the UK is that there
04:49has been a massive peak in migration.
04:51The UK economy has gone down very, very substantially. As we've just heard in the introduction, they've had seven prime
04:57ministers.
04:57So this is a state of governance, which is absolutely disastrous.
05:00Oh, I absolutely agree. I just meant that if we as a European Union want to have the United Kingdom
05:06work together with us or eventually rejoin,
05:09I sense that you would be open to that, but you can comment on that later.
05:12We need to take into account these specific specificities. But now we see the European Commission and also European leaders
05:19evolving towards a more centralized approach of the Union with less tailor-made,
05:24less opt-outs, less possibilities to take.
05:26And we'll come back to that shortly, but I want to go back to the UK politics because, of course,
05:31seven prime ministers have come and gone since the Brexit vote.
05:34Is this because of Brexit, this political chaos we're seeing in the UK?
05:37Well, I mean, there's nobody looking to leave the European Union anymore. And there is a waiting room for membership
05:43that is bursting at the seams.
05:46So the one big takeaway is that I think in the contested geopolitical world that we live in now, we're
05:52much better together.
05:53Mark Carney articulated that very well for middle-sized countries, for Europe, for Canada.
05:59So I think Britain has learned that lesson in a very difficult way.
06:02Because we remember 10 years ago, when the vote happened, Nigel Farage said the European Union was dead and, quote,
06:08finished.
06:09We saw Marine Le Pen, Gerd Filders calling for their countries to have a referendum. That's off the table now.
06:14It's all off the table. And even Mr. Willis never mentions Brexit or Brexit anymore.
06:21Never mentioned it.
06:21So, I mean, you know, it's for slow learners.
06:25We now have had a laboratory example of what happens when you leave the European Union,
06:30when you try to take back control, when you try to do things by yourself.
06:33It is clear that this has deepened the European Union's roots.
06:37It has enhanced the European Union's reputation.
06:40And that's why almost all of our neighbourhood countries are thinking about joining, including Iceland, including Norway, including all the
06:47Western Balkans and Eastern Europe.
06:50And what about the situation in the UK? The EU and the UK were just getting back on track with
06:55those relations.
06:56An EU summit was supposed to be taking place at the end of July. It's now off the table.
07:00So what will the latest chaos mean for this relationship?
07:03Two things I would say to the Commission. First of all, it's right to delay the summit. Absolutely.
07:09I think that the first point is that you have to anonymize relations with the UK.
07:13You can't it can't depend on the personality of the prime minister, particularly where you have Farage quite high in
07:20the opinion polls.
07:20So I think the European Commission has to recognize this. Plus, it cannot continue to treat the UK as an
07:27ordinary third country because the UK is so aligned with our key interests as Europe.
07:32And I think a lot of UK politicians recognize this. The Commission has to recognize that, too.
07:37And during the very lengthy negotiation period, the divorce period, if you like, was the EU fair to the United
07:43Kingdom, you think?
07:43I think in many aspects we were very fair. If I look at fisheries, really, really took a huge portion
07:53out of our fishery rights, etc.
07:55So I think the European Union has been right, but tough. I think maybe in some aspects too tough.
08:00So that's also my suggestion. Let's work together closer. Let's move past the past bickering and find new solutions, because
08:09I think that will also pave the way for new candidate member states like Iceland and Norway.
08:15And if we don't improve the relationship with the United Kingdom in the future, I think if we have a
08:21referendum in Iceland upcoming and show signs of that development, we will eventually end up also losing these candidate member
08:28states who do fulfill the Copenhagen criteria.
08:32But I just want to bring in an incident that took place in the European Parliament chamber just last week
08:36in Strasbourg, when MEPs, when you were voting on measures to increase the deportation of undocumented migrants. Take a look.
08:47On the agenda, the report by Mrs. Brickmont on the EU-Pakistan agreement modification of concessions on tariff rate quotes.
08:59Vote on consent by roll call vote. The vote is open.
09:12We move to the...
09:17It's adopted.
09:21So a flavour there of what's going on inside the very European Parliament chamber. Shander Schmidt, what were you chanting?
09:27I was not chanting. I don't think chanting belongs in the Parliament. That way I did applaud the outcome of
09:33the result of the vote.
09:34And were you sitting beside the chanters? Yes, yes, they were to the left of me, so in the right
09:41wing groups.
09:43This is a good glimpse of the kind of divisiveness that we can see right now in politics, right here
09:49and of course across the pond.
09:50Yeah, look, it was a disgrace. It was an appalling low point in my experience in the European Parliament.
09:57I voted against the measure. I have a very clear conscience about that.
10:01And what I was very disappointed about was that some members of your party online described one of our colleagues,
10:08who is originally from Iraq, that she should go home.
10:11Now, that should be withdrawn. That is the subject of a complaint. And I would put it to you that
10:16you should recognize that that was a mistake.
10:19Whatever about not chanting in the Parliament, but encouraging one of our colleagues who wasn't born in the European Union
10:25to go home.
10:26Surely that's an unacceptable political approach.
10:29I wasn't there at the incidence that I can't vouch for how it was formulated by my colleague and how
10:36it was intended.
10:36So I think I think we look at the outcome of the result. Everyone who is an EU citizen who
10:44holds the right to be here can remain in the European Union.
10:46This is about the return of illegal migrants, illegal aliens who have penetrated the European Union without a right to
10:53asylum and to remain here to return hubs under the full compliance with EU and international fundamental human rights.
11:02It's just interesting because Brexit, of course, was driven largely by migration concerns.
11:06And we're seeing that right now in the EU, the bloc taking much tougher policies when it comes to migration.
11:11Has Europe moved closer to the position that won that Brexit referendum?
11:15Yeah, my view is you can't beat the far right by becoming far right.
11:18That way they win and you lose. So I think it is a major mistake here.
11:23I think, you know, Sanders says there is human rights conditionality in relation to these return hubs.
11:31But let's not forget there are human rights clauses in the EU Israel Association Agreement, which have been willfully ignored
11:38by the Commission for three years in spite of the ongoing war crimes,
11:41in spite of the ongoing statements made by certain Israeli ministers in relation to European citizens, in relation to Palestinians
11:50and the West Bank.
11:50So I take no comfort from the presence in this agreement of human rights conditions in relation to return hubs.
11:56Quick reaction to that?
11:57I do. I think that we uphold the rule of law as European Union, and we will also do this
12:03in the return hub in safe third countries.
12:05And I think a lot of the Irish voters will also be disappointed that you voted against the result, which
12:10is the last building block of the EU migration and asylum pact, which you supported in the last term.
12:18The Irish voters will be disappointed that I voted against. That is correct. But that's the essence of populism that
12:24you're determined by, you know, whatever current.
12:27Now, what I try to explain to our citizens is that, yes, we have a new migration and asylum pact.
12:32It only came into force two weeks ago. We also have migration conditionality in a lot of our external relations.
12:38We also have memorandums of understanding and returns. And my argument is that we should let all of this work
12:44before we go down what was a taboo subject just a few years ago about sending families and children to
12:51places they've never had any connection with to satisfy this demand in circumstances where asylum applications are going down in
13:00the European Union, where deportations are actually going up.
13:03This is the wrong time to do this. And we have done extensive reporting on that topic here on Euronews.
13:08And we've also done previous editions of The Ring. So catch up with them. But now it is time to
13:12move on to our next round.
13:18Now, you've already got a glimpse of what happens inside the European Parliament chamber.
13:21But now I'm going to give you another one because their MEPs also ask each other direct questions and follow
13:27up.
13:27So here on The Ring, you'll also have that opportunity. So, Shander Schmidt, please address your very first question to
13:32Barry Andrews.
13:33Barry, the United Kingdom was our strongest ally for fiscal discipline, resisting EU debt schemes and protecting national sovereignty, also
13:41for Ireland.
13:42Do you still miss the British Prime Minister in the European Council to help us protect national vetoes?
13:48And would you actually welcome the EU back into the European Union?
13:52A couple of questions there, Sander. So, first of all, yes, of course, we'd welcome the UK back into the
13:58European Union.
13:59I think of all EU member states, Ireland was most aligned with the UK, actually, on a whole range of
14:04issues, particularly around trade, the provision of financial services.
14:07But most importantly, peace on the island of Ireland and the UK pulled very hard in the same direction on
14:14that.
14:14And the European Union acted as an honest broker and really helped us.
14:17So for me, there's absolutely no question about that.
14:20In terms of veto power and the protection of veto power, I think that has held the European Union back,
14:25whereas other major global actors are able to act quickly.
14:28We take an inordinate amount of time and we're being held hostage by single individuals in the European Council.
14:35And now your question.
14:36So my question is how the ECR are making arrangements with far right MEPs in the European Parliament, some of
14:47whom are pro Putin.
14:49How do you explain that to your voters in the Netherlands that you are making these alliances with pro Russian
14:55parties and pro Russian actors in the European Parliament?
14:57I think it's not about making alliances with pro Russian parties.
15:02We have a broad center right majority now, new majorities in European Parliament, which vote along with us as an
15:07ECR, where we firmly support Ukraine.
15:09So there's no doubt about that.
15:11And if they vote along us in supporting, for instance, the return regulation proposed by EPP commissioner and by the
15:19commission of Miss von der Leyen, not by far right populists,
15:23but by the European Commission, we safeguarded, we defended the proposal of Commissioner Brunner there, then there's no case of
15:30us collaborating with any such parties.
15:33But I do not uphold a firewall or a cordon sanitaire if people want to support my proposals.
15:40That would be political suicide.
15:41And I'm sure that certain of your own proposals and amendments have been voted in favor of also by far
15:48right parties in committee votes.
15:50There's a difference between passive support and actively collaborating with these parties on amendments and issues like that.
15:58So is your point is that you don't actively collaborate with the far right, the pro?
16:02We thought we've worked with all democratically elected representatives in this house.
16:07And if they want to support us on issues such as return regulation, combating illegal illegal migration, then I fully
16:15support such cooperation.
16:16And there's no and no threat there or danger of legitimizing their positions in certain other issues there with a
16:23very strong stance.
16:24And there we are also really aligned, I think, in many issues.
16:28OK, well, we've heard the views now from the MEPs and you've had the opportunity to address your questions.
16:32Now it's time to hear from a new voice.
16:38I'd like to bring in the voice of Richard Corbett, former British Labour MEP, who became one of the leading
16:44political and academic voices in the debates over EU membership and reforming the bloc.
16:49He was actually in Brussels this month to mark the 10 year anniversary of Brexit and meet a group of
16:54British nationals who walked the whole way from London to the European capital.
16:58Take a look.
16:59Alexander Stutt, president of Finland, came all the way to London, Chatham House lecture to say we want you back.
17:05Donald Tusk, Poland, says we dream of Britain coming back.
17:08Pedro Sanchez, Spain, says Brexit was a mistake. You should come back in.
17:12They do want us back. Why?
17:15Look at the geopolitics.
17:17Look at the geopolitics. Richard Corbett making the point there, making the pitch for coming back into the EU.
17:22Now, that was one of your questions actually for Barry Andrews earlier.
17:25Would you like to welcome them back?
17:26And is it a necessity now due to the geopolitical world we're living in?
17:29I think I would really welcome them back because we really miss them still also in the European Parliament.
17:34The British Conservative Party is still sorely missed, I think, in my group as well.
17:40But I think it will be an evolution in the coming years.
17:43We have other parties, as Barry said, in the UK now contending, and they think we have to work towards
17:49rebuilding trust and confidence also by having a more pragmatic approach, not a dogmatic, not a bickering approach of the
17:57past, not to be too tough, but really open up to the United Kingdom.
18:01A much more dangerous place since ten years ago.
18:03Now, we do know the EU and the UK have signed a defence and security partnership back in May 2025.
18:09But is this working out?
18:10Look, there's just not enough political energy behind this.
18:14Obviously, Keir Starmer has had his problems and the Commission has had a very full agenda.
18:20So the European Union-EUK agenda has been very strongly pushed by Mara Sefcovic, let's be absolutely clear about this.
18:27But I am concerned about the slow progress on things like the ETS, electricity trading, SPS, you know, food and
18:35those relationships which we should be able to improve much more quickly than is the case.
18:40And with the world in turmoil and the EU hoping to invest more in defence and security, especially with the
18:45US pulling out of NATO, there's a big gap in the budget now since Brexit.
18:50We've seen like between 10 and 12 billion euros less in the coffers because the UK left.
18:55What does that mean now for the EU's ambitions to invest in defence?
18:58I think the UK are major military power also capable of investing and we really miss them there.
19:06So, as I said, we sorely miss them also in this dimension.
19:11And is there a solution for the EU to muster up the money itself, try and leverage the EU budget?
19:15Well, that will mean that net payers such as my own country have to pay more and I'm not really
19:20in favour of having the defence which is primarily a national competence transferred to the EU level.
19:27Because really that development in the past also led to Brexit and also in my own member states if the
19:33net contribution of my own member state were to increase I think that would decrease also support for the European
19:40Union which has increased in the recent years.
19:42So, I think we should leave it there and find pragmatic solutions there.
19:46OK, I want to dive deeper into that topic but first let's take a break here on The Ring.
19:50Stay with us though here on Euronews.
20:01Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:04I'm Maeve McMahan and I'm joined by Sander Schmidt, Dutch MEP from the European Conservatives and Reformists.
20:09I'm Barry Andrews, Irish MEP from Renew Europe.
20:13And today we're talking about how the EU is doing 10 years after the Brexit referendum and if the country
20:19of 69 million people could ever rejoin again.
20:22To get the view from Europeans on whether they should one day rejoin, we consulted some data from the European
20:28Council on Foreign Relations that says 66% of European respondents, quote, strongly support or tend to support UK membership.
20:37Support varies significantly from us.
20:4056% in Bulgaria and 59% in France and Italy to 75% in the Netherlands and Denmark.
20:47And backers of far-right and Eurosceptic parties favour stronger UK-EU ties including supporters of Germany's AFD and France's
20:55national rally.
20:57So interesting data there and many sharing your view that they do indeed miss the Brits and they'd love to
21:02invite them back.
21:03Your reaction?
21:04Yeah, well actually the figures are very similar to the polling figures in the UK.
21:07So whereas it was 52% to leave, now the figures are the other way.
21:12There's most UK people consider that Brexit was a mistake.
21:17They consider that rejoining is the correct way.
21:19So really there's hugely fertile political ground available to whichever politician has the courage to articulate return to the European
21:27Union and to put that to the people.
21:28And I think that the European Union should respond to that and provide a pathway to such a politician if
21:34they do have that courage.
21:35And how should that path look?
21:36Are we talking about the red carpet being rolled out or are we talking about stricter membership, no more opt
21:41-outs?
21:42I think we need opt-outs as well because we'll never get them back if we're too dogmatic, too strict
21:48there.
21:48So I think we ought to offer them the old package.
21:51So you almost want to go begging them.
21:52The old package.
21:54I think that would be then that's also what British voters and British citizens who were pulled remember.
22:00So if we come up with other extra regulation, we need more pragmatism.
22:04That's a very interesting view.
22:06Do you think other Europeans and European leaders would be would be on board with this?
22:09No, they wouldn't because clearly we do have differentiated accession.
22:14So Ukraine may come in in the next few years, but I anticipate that it will be on different terms
22:20to Western Balkans, for example.
22:22And I think the UK as a former member should be treated in a differentiated manner.
22:27But I don't see the European Council supporting the idea of going back to the original package of rebate outside
22:34Schengen, outside the euro.
22:36I think some of those issues will have to be spoken about.
22:39So, you know, while the UK are saying they want to return to the to the European Union, the majority,
22:44when you put the actual package, it might be a different story.
22:47So that debate has to happen in the UK initially before we have any discussions.
22:52And 10 years on from now, how do you visualize the European Union?
22:55Will it be enlarged?
22:57It will, in my ideal vision, would be slightly maybe enlarged, but enlargement is not a goal in itself.
23:04I'd like to have the United Kingdom back and I think Norway and Iceland are perfect examples within the European
23:09economic area already to join the European Union.
23:13But if European leaders are too tough and we don't have this pragmatism towards the United Kingdom now in upcoming
23:19months, this might only also slow down or close off the same development in Iceland and Norway.
23:25Yeah, I think it will closely follow it.
23:28Yeah, I agree. I think if we have a positive discussion about the UK, I think the reputation of the
23:33European Union would be very, very profoundly enhanced by seeing the UK recognise that it was a mistake to leave
23:39and to begin the process of applying to rejoin.
23:42And just a final point on EU enlargement. Could the EU function as 30 or 35 with this current veto
23:48system?
23:49Well, look, back in 2004 when we had the biggest accession, when all of the countries of Central and Eastern
23:55Europe joined, the argument was the European Union is not going to be able to function without really expanding QMV
24:02and withdrawing veto power.
24:04In fact, Ireland and other smaller member states insisted on keeping veto power and making sure that we limited QMV
24:10and the roof hasn't fallen in.
24:13In fact, the European Union does continue to operate quite well.
24:16Having said that, from a foreign policy point of view, I believe that there are areas where there should be
24:21an expanded QMV.
24:23Is that pragmatic?
24:23No, as Barry said, I think the European Union should continue as it is, as the treaty is now with
24:29the vetoes. The number of vetoes and policies has already been limited in the past before the Treaty of Lisbon
24:36as well.
24:36And I think we now have to safeguard this unanimity principle, especially if we want the UK back, if we
24:44want Iceland and smaller member states like Norway, potential member states to join.
24:49And it will really scare off these potential or real candidates if we abolish the national veto.
24:57And for my own member states, it's also been very important, not only for Ireland, but for other smaller member
25:01states to uphold the veto.
25:03OK, well, it is now time to move on to our fifth and final round.
25:11And like always, to close, we do something a little bit different.
25:14I'm going to ask our MEPs a set of questions and you can only answer with yes or no. Is
25:20that doable?
25:21Maybe.
25:23Is the European Union to blame for the Brexit vote? Yes or no?
25:26Yes. No.
25:27Is Nigel Farage, perhaps, to blame for the Brexit vote? Yes or no?
25:31Yes, yes and yes.
25:34Is Nigel Farage to blame for the Brexit vote? Yes or no? Yes, yes.
25:37Was Brexit a wake-up call for the European Union, Sander?
25:40Yes.
25:41Yes, I think that's fair. I think it's forced the European Union to reflect in a way that it hasn't
25:46done for a long time.
25:48And is the European Union more democratic now today than it was ten years ago, yes or no?
25:53There has been no treaty change, so no, it hasn't changed.
25:57No.
25:58Did disinformation decide the referendum in the UK, yes or no?
26:02Yes, I think.
26:03Yes, Cambridge Analytica, Russian money, massive disinformation.
26:07And will the European Union ever speak with one voice?
26:09Yes.
26:12Yes.
26:14And is Ursula von der Leyen a good leader, yes or no?
26:18No, I don't think so.
26:20Yes or no?
26:21Sometimes she's good on Israel, she's been a disaster.
26:24Is the EU doing enough to stay competitive against the US and China, Sander?
26:28No, absolutely not. We need more deregulation.
26:32No.
26:33And has the European Union become too dependent on regulation, yes or no?
26:37Yes.
26:38Yes.
26:39That is the big debate, of course, of Brussels today.
26:42Should national vetoes in foreign policy be abolished?
26:45I know your answer.
26:46No.
26:47In some instances, yes.
26:49Good to have allies in renew as well.
26:51Has the EU Green Deal strengthened the European economy?
26:55Yes.
26:56I don't think so. Not overall.
26:59And will we see another Brexit in the next 10 years?
27:02No way.
27:03No.
27:04And one final question.
27:05Is the future of the European Union bright, yes or no?
27:07Yes.
27:11Come on, Sander, you know the right answer.
27:14Yes, if we uphold the national veto and respect this national sovereignty as well.
27:19And on that conclusion, we can bring this edition of The Ring to an end.
27:22We'd love to hear as well from you, the ring at youruse.com.
27:25That is our email address, Barry Andrews and Sander Schmidt.
27:28Thank you so much for being our guests.
27:29Thank you so much for watching.
27:31Take care and see you soon.
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