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02:52Now that our Prime Minister has resigned, I'm hoping that a new leader of the Labour Party has a plan
02:58and a strategy and can give some clarity on the direction of travel, on our relationship with Europe from the
03:06point of view of our economy, prosperity, defence, which is so important, and also tackling the big issues such as
03:13AI and the environment.
03:14And before we look forward, just to finish looking backwards, from your perspective, what are some of the biggest lies
03:21about Brexit that never came true? And in contrast, have any promises?
03:27The biggest lie was about Turkey joining. Those posters that leave remained that we would have hundreds of thousands of
03:33people coming across our border were, I mean, they were fabricated lies and they were images that were generated that
03:39were not true.
03:40The idea that leaving the EU would suddenly solve all our domestic issues. It was just an excuse, a cowardly
03:48excuse for putting off the real hard work that needs to be done when it comes to the domestic issues
03:54that we had and were deepened after the global financial crisis.
03:58The lies on the lies that it would end immigration, all it's done. And we can see that, you know,
04:04we've had the highest levels of legal migration post Brexit than we have ever had, you know, close to, well,
04:12depending on your figure, somewhere between 600,000 and a million people that are ex-EU.
04:16So the idea when I was going around the country that was being sold by Brexiteers is leave the EU,
04:22stop our migration problems. It was a lie. And then the 350 million that we would save for the NHS
04:29was a lie. There were so many of them.
04:33Do you believe that the Labour government has made positive strides when it comes to mending its relationship with the
04:38EU? And do you think that Starmer's resignation will weaken ties or be an opportunity to strengthen them further?
04:45I have been very disappointed that Prime Minister Starmer was much not clearer on his, what he called about his
04:52realigning. I don't understand the not agreeing to a youth mobility scheme when we have one with 13 other countries
04:58and restoring that opportunity for our young people.
05:02The idea of not pursuing a much closer relationship in a formal way, to my mind, the door is open
05:09on a Swiss type agreement. And I think that's something we should be very clear about.
05:13And I think rather than cherry picking here, there and everywhere in tiny little steps, I'm hoping the opportunity is
05:20there for the new leader, a new leader to be much bolder and talk about alignment.
05:25As I said, from my personal point of view, I think what is achievable before the next general election, because
05:30we've got reform, you know, lurking over our British politics and possibly a reform type government after the next general
05:37election, that to me, a Swiss style agreement.
05:40We have got to do something like that, to make sure that the door is kept open to one day
05:45perhaps rejoining, because that's what I'd like to see.
05:47But I don't think we have the political bandwidth in either Europe or the UK to be talking about that
05:53right now.
05:53And how positively do you feel about the upcoming UK EU reset talks?
05:58From your perspective, what's lacking in these talks of the EU, both in terms of political will and concrete measures?
06:06I think on our side, it is that the red lines are nonsensical to me, such as, as I said,
06:12I mentioned the youth mobility scheme.
06:14I think it's great that we're going to have some of the changes when it comes to agriculture and reducing
06:19of some of the red tape.
06:20But it's not enough. Our businesses are on the floor.
06:24You know, we need much more. We need a relationship that actually reverses some of the damage when it comes
06:30to the paperwork,
06:31the burden on businesses that will attract foreign investment and will actually stop the drift towards lower regulation where too
06:39many of our politicians on the right want us to go to.
06:41So I think it's really important that we have those closer relationships.
06:45And do you believe that there's a chance that Brexit could ever be reversed? And if not, why? And if
06:50so, in what time frame?
06:53I think the process, you know, we have this is not about surrender when I say that it's not rejoining
06:59maybe sometime in the future.
07:01It's about the reality of where we are. The reality is that there are other people ahead of the queue.
07:05Why should we be given special treatment? And there are other member states who are ahead of other countries ahead
07:10of us.
07:10Secondly, we would have to have, I think, much more of the population in the UK wanting it.
07:17The figures are for rejoined, but I don't believe that there is enough of the population.
07:22It is not a big enough gap yet. And also the time.
07:26We are facing so many crises geopolitically in the world that I don't think we have a time for our
07:34parliaments,
07:35both in the EU and the UK, to be occupied with negotiating a rejoining deal.
07:40It would take out all the energy that's needed elsewhere.
07:43And you decided to take the government to court over its handling of Brexit, which made you kind of public
07:48enemy number one for Brexiteers.
07:51But from your perspective, would you say there's a culture of political apathy in the UK compared to European neighbours?
07:58The one positive, if there is one positive from Brexit, is that as a country, ordinary people in the street
08:05didn't really talk about politics as they do in Europe, as you do in your European member states.
08:10Now people are much more engaged.
08:12And that's why we are seeing so many of the new parties that are coming up and, you know, Green
08:17Party doing so well, the new extreme right party restore.
08:22People are more engaged.
08:23And that is a positive because actually a healthy democracy requires people to be more engaged.
08:27That said, it is also very divisive politics.
08:31So, you know, there's good and bad to that.
08:33But I think the problem is that we don't have politicians with courage.
08:39We do not have politicians that are spelling out the difficulties of where we are, not just to do with
08:45Europe, because there are so many economic and domestic problems that we have in the UK.
08:51You know, they're not sort of telling people honest truth about where we are and the hard choices we need
08:58to make to get to a better place.
09:00And that includes increasing, you know, we can't do very much if we don't have money in the coffers.
09:07And one of the things we need to do is to ensure that we have we can increase our GDP
09:11and investment from abroad and the markets and investors.
09:16If there was a plan that they could see, not just people in the UK, that sense of stability and
09:23direction of travel would actually increase the confidence that people have.
09:29And at the moment, very few people, be it businesses, investors and the public themselves, have confidence in our politicians.
09:36And you faced a huge torrent of online abuse when you took the government to court over Brexit and this
09:42led you to be protected by an anti-terrorism brigade.
09:45How dangerous has it been for you to be an outspoken critic of Brexit?
09:49And do you believe that there's still a risk in being this outspoken today?
09:54Unfortunately, you know, it came with death threats and, you know, the vilest people went to prison because of the
10:00death threats against me.
10:02It was not something I ever envisaged.
10:04I mean, I knew there would be a backlash, but I didn't think it would be of such a violent
10:09nature and such an abusive nature.
10:11And I'm afraid as the anniversary, the 10th anniversary now means it, because for a long time, nobody, the B
10:18word was not mentioned by politicians.
10:20It was, they were too frightened to mention it.
10:22Now, with the anniversary this week, since last week, they have done and the abuse has increased that I've been
10:28receiving.
10:29And oddly enough, I'm getting it from both sides this time.
10:31I'm getting it from the leavers because they're saying, oh, she's going to try it.
10:35You know, their hatred hasn't gone away.
10:38And I'm afraid the Reform and Restore Party, because they are whipping up all the anti-migrant and the divisions
10:45in our country and the anti-EU settlement sentiment, then that I get a backlash.
10:51It has a consequence for me.
10:52But also the Remainers are not happy with me either because they think we could just rejoin tomorrow.
10:57So I take a pragmatic line and I believe we have to look at process and we have to be
11:06honest about what that process means to people.
11:08And that tends to be a very unpopular place to be from either side.
11:14But I think it's important that someone fills that gap.
11:17And I will carry on doing that because we cannot get to a better place until we talk about what
11:23is needed.
11:23And I have to say, whatever happens next cannot be sneaked through the back door.
11:29And that's one of the things I think was wrong that the Prime Minister Starmer was talking about.
11:35It was a change to be done through what's called secondary legislation.
11:38So it wouldn't be debated in Parliament.
11:40As I said, and I defended the parliamentary sovereignty, I think any realignment and changes that come in the future
11:46need to be transparent and in the open and debated by Parliament.
11:51It can't be through the back door.
11:53Thank you very much, Gina Miller, for joining us on Euronews.
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