00:10Hi, welcome back to Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris. Let's continue our conversation about
00:15child rights in Malaysia, this following Malaysia's recent review before the United Nations Committee
00:20on the Rights of the Child in Geneva. Joining me now is education activist Siti Rahayu Bahrain,
00:26who is co-founder of Buku Jalanan Chalkit, which is an NGO that seeks equal access to education
00:34for underprivileged children within the Chalkit area to help them escape the cycle of poverty.
00:39She's also an advocate for Yayasan Chalkit. Siti Rahayu, thank you so much for joining us on the show
00:44again. It's good to have you back. Now, I understand that you were in Geneva earlier this year for the
00:49review. Can I ask you what stood out to you during Malaysia's dialogue with the UN Committee
00:56on the Rights of the Child?
00:59Hi, Melissa. It's good to be back and talking about something that is so, so important. I think one
01:05thing that stood out during the dialogue was that the community recognised that Malaysia has made
01:11progress in several areas involving children's well-being and protection. There was acknowledgement
01:18of new policy effort and stronger conversations around child participation and child protection
01:24reforms. But however, I believe, I believe. But at the same time, there was also a very strong and
01:33consistent concern raised about children who continue to fall through the cracks. You know, especially
01:40those undocumented, stateless, refugee, migrant, orang asli children and urban poor children. And what was
01:50significant in Geneva was that the discussion was not only about policies on paper, but whether children
01:56are genuinely able to accept their rights equally in practice. You know, questions around education access,
02:04around nationality, documentation, discrimination, detention, and protection system came up repeatedly in all
02:13thematic areas. So I think the review reminded all of us that progress cannot only be measured by national average.
02:21We also have to ask which children are still being left behind. And why are they left behind?
02:30Yeah.
02:30When you talk about children who fall through the cracks, I know you work closely with children who are
02:36underprivileged, who are from marginalised communities. Can you tell me what they're telling you?
02:41And does the report actually reflect what you're seeing on the ground, what they're telling you,
02:48the realities that these children face? Are they fully understood and captured in the report?
02:55I think it's not only me, but I think a lot of the issues raised during the review strongly reflected
03:01what many organisations and communities have been witnessing on the ground for years, for years.
03:08And when we work directly with children in the marginalized community, right, we will be able to see
03:14that many children are not excluded because they lack potential. But they were excluded because
03:21the ecosystem were not designed to include them equally. So that's what we believe. Like, for example,
03:28right, undocumented and stateless children often face barriers entering former school. Even though
03:34education is fundamental right under UNCRC, there are still many children who did not have access to
03:42education, did not have access to justice, did not have access to healthcare system. Many children are also
03:48growing up facing overlapping challenges, poverty, unstable housing, trauma, food insecurity,
03:57lack of documentation, and also social stigma. I do think the reality were increasingly understood
04:03during the review because I think for 15 to 19 years that Malaysia did not submit our report. And this
04:11is
04:12after the 19 years after the 19 years, I think. So of course, there's a lot of improvement and changes.
04:19Yeah. Um, and, and I think, um, civil society organisation, children and affected community themselves
04:25um, have continued to bring this lived experience forward. There's conversation, we talk about it,
04:33but there's still a need to deepen public understanding that these are not isolated issues, yeah.
04:40Right, Cik, Cik.
04:41Ayu, let's zoom in on education because I think that was one of the five priority areas. It's one of
04:46the areas
04:46that you work very closely with children about. When we talk about the barriers, um, for children in
04:53marginalized communities to access education, the government often says, well, okay, let's look at
04:58stateless children, refugee children. They have access to learning centres. But what is your response?
05:04What does inclusive and unconditional education look like to you in practice, reality on the ground?
05:11You know, for every children, education is equal to school building, you know. But right now, right,
05:18when we talk about barriers to education, it's not only about whether a school building exists.
05:23Many children in marginalized communities face barriers even before they enter the building,
05:28before they enter the classroom. They are facing barriers like documentation requirement,
05:34poverty, transportation costs to go to school. You know, this is for, um, children in the rural area,
05:41Malaysian children in rural area, transportation costs with the, the high price of diesel, language barriers,
05:48discrimination, fear of enforcement, digital, um, exclusion and unstable family conditions, all affect
05:56whether a child can consistently access education. Um, what, what about those undocumented and
06:03stateless children in particular? Access to formal education remain one of the biggest concern.
06:09And then, inclusive and under, unconditional, uh, education and practice mean that child should not
06:15be denied learning because of their legal status, background, poverty, ethnicity, disability. You know,
06:21um, Melissa, what important for us is that right now, right? This is also why many sets or continue to
06:29call
06:29for Malaysia to fully ratify article 28 1a of the convention, which recognize free and compulsory
06:38primary education for all children. Ratifying this article will send a very strong message that
06:44Malaysia is committed to ensuring every child has equal access to education without discrimination.
06:50And, um, this is important for the government, I think, to listen to this, because beyond the moral and
06:56human rights responsibility, because they always say that CSO is always, um, think about human
07:03rights and also, um, moral only right. But, but by ratifying this one, I think this is also beneficial
07:10for the country itself. Educations, right? It will strengthen social cohesion, definitely. It will reduce
07:16long-term poverty. It will improve economy product productivity. It will lower social risk and help build a
07:23healthier and more skilled future workforce by building our children, by giving them access to
07:28education. This is important. I didn't know we haven't ratified that specifically. We did not.
07:37Okay. All right. Well, you know, which is, uh, uh, the exact reason why we need, um, CSOs to keep
07:44highlighting this. And I'm so proud of CSOs who've banded together and released the first CSO alternative
07:50report, uh, for children. I think that's amazing. Why, why do you see this as a, a really pivotal point,
07:58a crucial point that collaboration between NGOs, between the civil society and government is crucial,
08:06particularly when we think about how we need to improve the outcomes of our, for our children.
08:12Melissa, all of us believe it is done. We believe that protecting
08:16a child truly takes a whole village and that whole village is us. It's the government. It's the
08:23corporate sector. It's everyone of us. You know, no single institution can address complex child
08:29rights issues alone. Cannot. Government agencies, of course, they play a crucial role in policies,
08:35legislation, public system, national implementation. However, NGO, right,
08:42we work directly on the ground and understood the live reality, the daily struggle and immediate needs
08:48faced by the children and the family. So when the partnership really works well, right,
08:55children will benefit. That's that children will benefit. And when children benefit, right, the most,
09:02it become, I think the most sustainable solutions. It is the most practical, it is most inclusive,
09:08it is most responsive and human centered because you are thinking about the child and the child
09:15itself, right? So, so regardless, regardless of the child background status, all of them should be able
09:24to access perfection, education, healthcare, or, you know, all the best things, right? Just because they
09:30are children, just because, regardless, because, right, when a child is born, they don't choose in which
09:36womb they will come out from. They can't choose. So they are a victim of circumstances. So if not us,
09:45if it's not the government who give back and return back their rights, you know, who else can do that?
09:52Then all children will be further left behind.
09:56My worry is, Cik Guayu, is that we're not listening to children. We're not listening to the voices of
10:01children, what they're telling us about, what they want policies that affect them to be like. Can I ask
10:08you, because you work so closely with children, is there a message you would like to share with the
10:12public about upholding child rights in our everyday lives?
10:18Chirite. Chirite, Melissa, is not abstract international concept that, oh, international
10:23people are dealing with it, they're doing it. No. Because children, we have children everywhere.
10:28They are about whether children are safe, whether they are able to learn, whether they are healthy,
10:34protected, and treated with unity. I think sometimes, right, society only notice vulnerable
10:39children when there is a crisis. But child rights are also about prevention, are also about inclusion,
10:47about ensuring children are not invisible in everyday system and decision.
10:53Yeah. Every children, regardless, regardless of the background, they deserve opportunity to grow,
11:00to learn, and feel. You know, following our time at Geneva, right, we are bringing, we are having,
11:08we are going to organize a symposium, actually, on how to use UNCRC in bettering our Chirite policies.
11:17And we want to start it in the Malaysian parliament. On the 8th and 9th June, we're going to have
11:22symposium
11:24talking about UNCRC, talking about Chirite. We hope all of the MPs and their officers will attend,
11:31so that we can further learn about this together. And what's interesting is that in YCK, we have
11:38YCK ambassador, and YCK ambassador is the children. Child participation for us is very important. We
11:44need to listen to the children. So in that symposium, some of the children will become the moderator and
11:50also the panel speaker, so that, you know, you will be able to listen to them. And that's what makes,
11:58I think, what makes me feel like, okay, now listen, listen to the children.
12:03Definitely.
12:04Yeah.
12:04Cikgu Ayu, thank you so much for being on the show. Siti Rahayu Baharin there from
12:08Buku Jalanan Chalkit and Yayasan Chalkit wrapping up this episode of Consider This. I'm Melissa
12:14Idris signing off for the evening. Thank you so much for watching and good night.
12:32from
12:32you
12:33You
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