- 3 months ago
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00:28You
00:36Hello, Westfield police!
01:03I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
01:30Fuck.
02:05Westfield, New Jersey is an affluent suburb just outside the bustle of New York City.
02:11Half a century ago, this neighborhood of showcase homes and manicured lawns brought the promise of a picture-perfect life.
02:19But the thing about a picture is, it only tells half the story.
02:24And in 1971, a true monster is hiding behind this stately facade.
02:32You know, you always got to wonder when you see a mansion as to what is inside, what you don't
02:36see from the outside when you first look at it.
02:46It's dinner time at the List household, and 16-year-old Patricia List is in charge of preparing the meal
02:52for the family.
02:54Great. You need dinners again.
02:57Patty List was a bright girl. She was attractive. She had friends. For the most part, she appeared to be
03:04a normal teenager.
03:08Patricia.
03:10Oh, my God, Dad. How long have you been standing there?
03:13Where is your mother?
03:14She's upstairs. Where else would she be?
03:17Go get your brothers for dinner.
03:20I'll prepare the table.
03:23John List was not a barrel of laughs as a father.
03:26He's the kind of father you'd describe as strict and dour.
03:29He had lived a life as a devout Lutheran, a very regular churchgoer, a bit old-fashioned in his religion.
03:40An accountant and a man of few words, John List is the father of Patricia, Frederick, and John, Jr.
03:48Prayer and family are the center of his life.
03:52Children, bow your heads for prayer.
03:56From the book of Proverbs, there are things the Lord hates, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a
04:08heart that devises wicked plans.
04:10This is the word of the Lord. Amen.
04:13Amen.
04:15Oh, Patty, did you get the lead in the play?
04:19Mm-hmm.
04:20Yes, I did, actually.
04:22Um, and Tim's coming over later to help me run lines.
04:25Patricia, we talked about this.
04:27Acting, Patricia, is what is leading you away from the church, and I don't want you pursuing it.
04:31Dad, what are you talking about?
04:33You know that I might actually become an actress when I graduate.
04:37Patricia, I know this is difficult for you to understand, but acting, well, it leads to other things.
04:43It's the wrong crowd for you.
04:44That? Again? Give it a rest, John. We're all going to hell anyway.
04:51Helen and John List have been unhappily married for 20 years.
04:56Things were not particularly rosy between John and his wife, Helen.
05:00No one called me down to dinner.
05:04Well, that's very nice.
05:06That is very, very nice.
05:09Helen was a very domineering woman.
05:11She was not particularly nice to the kids.
05:14She did drink, and that obviously exacerbated problems, too.
05:20Patricia, fix your mother a plate.
05:23That reminds me, John.
05:25I'm supposed to make something for the church supper, but I'm not going to have time.
05:30Just pick something up at the store on your way home.
05:33Helen, that's supposed to be a homemade dish.
05:35Well, a lot of things are supposed to be, and they're not.
05:39Shall I make you a list?
05:43Helen was married previously.
05:46Helen's first husband was a war veteran, and she really respected him and thought he was very manly.
05:53She wanted John to be more like that, and Mr. List was just never going to do that.
05:59He was just set in his ways.
06:02What is this, John?
06:05TV dinners again?
06:09It's such a grand dining room.
06:13How fitting.
06:16Oh, if they could see you down at the office now.
06:21There goes that bonus.
06:29TV dinner.
06:31Maybe that's what I'll fix for the almighty church supper.
06:36Helen, that is not appropriate.
06:45Patty, your mother doesn't like what we're having for dinner, but I'm sure your grandmother would appreciate it.
06:49Why don't you bring it upstairs to her?
06:51Yes, Patty.
06:53I'm sure.
06:54Alma the hun is hungry up there.
07:01On the third floor of the List House resides John's 84-year-old mother, Alma.
07:08Grandma?
07:09Grandma, it's me.
07:10Patty, can I come in?
07:12The daughter of a German immigrant, Alma spends most days in her room alone.
07:18Is that my dinner?
07:20Yeah, Grandma.
07:21Put that on the table.
07:25Come.
07:26Stand by the window.
07:28I want to see you.
07:30Okay.
07:31Ah, such a pretty, pretty girl.
07:36Tell me, Patricia.
07:40Have you been a good girl?
07:42Um, yes, I think yes, Grandma.
07:47You know what I mean by a good girl, don't you?
07:54I think so.
07:59Good.
08:02Where are you going?
08:04Oh, um...
08:04You just got here.
08:06I know, but you have your dinner, and I have homework, so...
08:10Just leave the plate by the door, and I'll come...
08:15Come get it later.
08:21God bless you and keep you.
08:24Yeah.
08:27Though the God-fearing List household is anything but joyful,
08:32no one can imagine the punishment that is about to befall them.
08:42Helen, the pills are not helping you.
08:45They're making things worse.
08:46Can't you see that?
08:47Well, they were prescribed by a doctor.
08:50Are you a doctor, John?
08:53The pills, the alcohol, it's all leading you away from your family,
08:57and away from God.
09:00Do you ever listen to yourself, John?
09:05John.
09:17The more John and Helen's marriage crumbles,
09:20the more their daughter, Patty, searches for a means of escape.
09:25I'm gonna be on that train tomorrow night.
09:27Do you hear me?
09:30And if you know what is good for you, you'll do the same.
09:36So what did you think?
09:37I think that if they don't like your performance, then they're crazy.
09:40Oh, really?
09:41That was great.
09:41I was actually scared.
09:43Oh, my gosh, really?
09:44Because I must have practiced those lines, like, a billion times.
09:50Oh, no, no, no, no.
09:51Don't let me interrupt you.
09:53You're practicing your play.
09:55Running lines.
09:56Isn't that what they call it, dear?
09:58Yeah.
10:01Timmy, you don't say hello?
10:03Hi, Mrs. List.
10:05Now, what is this play about?
10:07It's a murder mystery from, like, the 1920s called A Sea by the Window.
10:13A murder mystery.
10:16Now, that is very interesting that you would be practicing a play about murder here in this house.
10:26Why is that, Mrs. List?
10:29Oh, Patty hasn't told you.
10:30Patty, you should have told me about it.
10:34Mother?
10:35Legend has it that there was a murder that happened right here in this den.
10:40Only it wasn't a den.
10:42It was a library.
10:43Bob, that's not even true.
10:45Yes, it is.
10:49God forbid it ever happen again.
11:02It's the fall of 1971, and the List family appears to be falling apart at the seams.
11:09The pills, the alcohol, it's all leading you away from your family and away from God.
11:14Do you ever listen to yourself, John?
11:18For the deeply religious John List, divorcing his wife is not an option.
11:23To distract himself from his troubles, he buries himself in his job instead.
11:28Problem is, that's not working out either.
11:31John had gotten his job at a bank, which is probably the best job he had ever had before.
11:36When you work with a bank in any capacity, you have to have some kind of people skills,
11:40and he had no people skills.
11:42There was just a total absence of the type of ability to interact with people,
11:47interact on a friendly, relaxed basis,
11:49and that's part of what you need to do to do a job like that.
11:54John, good, you're here.
11:56Dale, what can I do for you?
12:00Well, the thing is, you mind if I sit down?
12:07John, tell the truth, we have a problem, and it's the same problem we've had for a while.
12:12We got your billing updates, the new system is still not right,
12:15and it's eight weeks behind.
12:17Now, this is the third time...
12:27John?
12:30Any thoughts on the matter?
12:34I've been doing everything I can.
12:37As you know, these things require patience and faith and...
12:40John, John, John.
12:44I'm low on patience, losing faith, and you've run out of time.
12:51The bottom line is this.
12:53We have to let you go.
12:55I am sorry, but there's no other way at this point.
13:01I'll have someone come in and talk to you about the severance package.
13:05So this is final, this action you're taking.
13:10It is, John.
13:11I am sorry.
13:19He was out of a job, and was very worried about the finances.
13:25Very worried that his children and his wife would be in poverty,
13:29and everybody's scared of being broke and being poor.
13:32But he took it that extra step, that being broke and poor would be sin.
13:38And for John List, nothing is worse than committing a sin.
13:44John keeps his unemployment a secret from his family.
13:48For weeks, he goes through his normal routine as if nothing is wrong.
13:52He got dressed in his suit, but he left the house as though he was going to work,
13:55and he came home the normal time that he would have come home after work.
13:58He was embarrassed by what had happened.
14:00He was embarrassed that he was not able to provide for his family.
14:04He knew that money was running extremely low.
14:07I don't think he could get himself to face up to them and say,
14:11hey, I failed at this.
14:21Hey, man.
14:22Do you have any spare change?
14:26God helps those who help themselves.
14:31But John List can't seem to help himself.
14:34And before long, more trouble erupts at home.
14:41Mom, are you okay?
14:43Look at her, drunk again.
14:44What a disgrace, Helen.
14:46Dad, stop.
14:47We don't have long.
14:50Patricia, it's all coming to an end.
14:59Oh, my God, Mom.
15:01Mom, are you okay?
15:09Helen?
15:11Helen?
15:12Do you know where you are?
15:16Yes, I know where I am.
15:20And I know what they want to do to me.
15:23They want me out of the way.
15:25They want to lock me up.
15:28My husband wants me gone.
15:31Helen, your husband is here with us now.
15:39Isn't that just like him?
15:41You could be in the same room with him and you wouldn't even know he was there.
15:49John, could I speak with you for a minute?
15:52Patty, why don't you keep your mom company?
15:54Okay.
15:57Hi, Mom.
15:59How are you feeling?
16:00Do you need some more?
16:02Patty.
16:03Yeah.
16:04John, I've seen this before.
16:08This temporary blindness is symptoms of mental illness.
16:16And this is not easy for me to say, John.
16:20Your wife has syphilis.
16:28Helen had been married before and had reportedly contracted syphilis from her first husband.
16:34He had gotten it in his war service in Korea.
16:38It's not very difficult to treat syphilis with penicillin if you identify it early enough.
16:44But syphilis, if not treated, affects the brain.
16:47At this stage, it's incurable, John.
16:51And these symptoms will come and go.
16:54Some days, she'll be the old Helen.
16:57But really, the damage is done.
17:01I'd recommend that you get tested to be absolutely safe.
17:05But realistically, at this point, the likelihood that you're going to catch it is very, very slim.
17:14It's dormant in that regard.
17:18Thank you, Doctor.
17:25There's not much left holding up the List family.
17:29John is jobless.
17:30Helen is suffering from an incurable disease.
17:34And soon, Patty becomes painfully aware that everything is falling apart.
17:41What are you reading, Patricia?
17:44Dad, have you seen this?
17:47It says that we haven't paid on the house or the car, and they're going to take him.
17:52In every life, Patricia, there are trials.
17:56This is our time of trial.
17:59Your mother's not well.
18:02She's strayed from God, and her body and her mind are rebelling against her sin.
18:06Patricia, I don't want you to stray from God the way your own mother has.
18:10Dad, they're going to take the house and the car, okay?
18:15Why?
18:16What are we going to do?
18:17The Lord does not let the righteous grow hungry, but he thwarts the craving of the wicked.
18:22Just stop.
18:35His financial situation was dire.
18:38His mother had helped support him, but there was really no money left.
18:49By November of 1971, the lists can barely afford to pay the electric bill, and they've defaulted
18:57on their mortgage.
18:58Hope and faith have forsaken them.
19:06I want you to listen very carefully for what I'm about to tell you, John.
19:13Tomorrow morning, I want you to go down to that church and take my name off the member rolls.
19:21I don't believe anymore.
19:24I'm not sure I ever really did.
19:28Ellen, you're sick.
19:29You don't know what you're saying.
19:31Oh, I know exactly what I'm saying, John, and I want my name off those member rolls.
19:37Now!
19:42It all comes to nothing anyway.
19:45Look at you.
19:46You've been in church your whole life and hasn't done anything for you.
19:51You're not even a real man anymore.
19:56Have you talked to your pastor about that little problem?
20:16You are a curse!
20:18You're diseased.
20:20And you're a burden on everyone around you.
20:23And now you want to move away from the Lord and take the children with you?
20:27I want art!
20:30John was very upset that Helen wasn't going to church because the image was important to him.
20:36Anything that took away from that, you know, he just couldn't live with.
20:40He was not going to let anybody think that he was a failure.
20:53I will not allow it.
20:54I want art!
21:07With their finances in shambles...
21:09What are you reading, Patricia?
21:10...and their faith slipping away...
21:12I don't believe anymore.
21:14...tension around the List household has finally reached fever pitch.
21:18Now you want to move away from the Lord and take the children with you?
21:21I want art!
21:24John List was burning with resentment about his obligations, his failures.
21:29So he began to ponder all of this and to think about what really was the exit strategy.
21:36And on the morning of November 9th, 1971, life in the List house changes forever.
21:43You guys, come on. We're going to be late.
21:46Tim is driving us today, so you need to be ready. We're not going to wait for you.
21:50All dressed and ready for school.
21:53Let me look at you.
21:57Frederick.
21:59You're getting so big like a little man.
22:04And you, you're already there.
22:06Dad, we're going to be late, okay?
22:08Look at the lady of the house.
22:12All right, well, Tim is here, so we have to go, okay?
22:16Bye.
22:19God bless you all.
22:31What's wrong, John?
22:33Aren't you going in to work today?
22:36No.
22:38Well, you're going to lose that big bonus you've been working for.
22:44We've got to pay for all those TV dinners somehow, John.
22:50You won't be eating any more TV dinners.
23:06On November 9th, 1971, John Liss shot his wife in the head.
23:13This is a crazy thing to do.
23:16This is an evil thing to do.
23:17But it had in his kind of bloodless imagination a kind of logic to it.
23:23If I were only rid of all of this, I would be free.
23:42Hey, Mr. Liss.
23:45It's Michael.
23:47With Union County Daily News here to collect for the delivery?
23:51Yes, of course, Michael.
23:54Why don't you come in, and I'll get my wallet.
24:00Wait right here.
24:25Here you are, Michael.
24:30Um, actually, that's $20, Mr. Liss.
24:34Ten is all I have on me, I'm afraid, Michael.
24:37We'll have to get you next time.
24:40Oh, and I almost forgot.
24:42We won't be needing the newspaper for about a month.
24:45I'm taking the family to North Carolina.
24:47My wife's mother is ill, dying, I'm afraid.
24:53Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
24:55Well, I'll get the other ten for me next time, then.
25:00Oh, and I got my pen.
25:02Oh, my...
25:08Oh, my God.
25:18Oh, my God.
25:25Yeah, yeah.
25:25Oh, my God.
25:32Mother, it's John. May I come in?
25:35John?
25:40Oh, come in, son.
25:42Come in and shut the door behind you.
25:45I don't want your Helen coming in up here.
25:50Oh, don't worry, Mother.
25:51She won't be bothering you anymore.
25:54Oh, good.
25:56So what's the matter?
25:59Oh, nothing, Mother. No trouble.
26:02What was all that noise downstairs?
26:07Oh, I dropped something in the kitchen.
26:11Oh, yeah.
26:15Mother, may I ask you a question?
26:20Is there a sin that God would not forgive, could not forgive?
26:26So what has your dear wife done now?
26:30Oh, no, nothing like that, Mother.
26:33But in general, if the sinner truly repents, will God forgive, no matter what the sin?
26:45Faith in God alone will be forgiveness and salvation.
26:49You've known that since you were a little boy.
26:56Let me open the window and get some fresh air in here for you, Mother.
27:01Lovely.
27:07Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.
27:12Book of Acts, chapter 16, verse 31.
27:20If the sinner repents, the sin is forgiven.
27:27Yeah.
27:27I hope you're right.
27:29Yeah.
27:31God bless and keep you, Mother.
27:41He shot her.
27:42A woman who cared for him and loved him and gave him everything.
27:47He killed her.
27:48He left her there.
27:51He went downstairs, got in his car and went to the bank and withdrew money from his mother's account.
27:57Then he came home and made himself a sandwich and he waited for his children to come home from school.
28:04We should go hang out with Daniel.
28:05Yeah, okay.
28:08Okay, so let's grab a bite to eat.
28:11Okay.
28:11Then you get the basketball and...
28:13Boys, come in here, please.
28:15I need your help with something.
28:17Coming.
28:21No!
28:22Dad, no!
28:29The boys came home, one by one.
28:32He shot them and placed them in the ballroom.
28:36Thanks for walking me home.
28:38Sure.
28:39Do you think he'll come out later?
28:41I did...
28:42Come on.
28:42Just sneak out.
28:44I don't know.
28:44You know, my...
28:46My mom has been really sick and my dad has been acting crazy.
28:50I just don't want to make him mad right now.
28:52You know?
28:54But...
28:54But you can come up now if you want.
28:58Nah, I don't think I can.
29:01But if you think he'll come out later, just call me and we can meet at this spot.
29:05Okay.
29:07See ya.
29:10See ya.
29:21I don't know.
29:49Mom?
29:56God save your soul, Patricia.
30:06Within the space of probably six hours or so, he destroyed his entire family.
30:33Yes, hello?
30:35This is John List calling to inform you that Patricia List will not be at drama club rehearsals this evening.
30:42I'm sorry to say that a family member has fallen ill.
30:47He excused the kids from school. He stopped newspapers and milk deliveries. He thought of everything.
31:13He left lights on. He left classical music on.
31:23And then, to make a bizarre situation even stranger, he puts the bodies in sleeping bags and bingo, he's gone.
31:46It's been one month since John List shot and killed his entire family in their home in Westfield, New Jersey.
31:53Now, their neighbors are starting to wonder what's happened to them.
31:57Patty sent them postcards when she went away, even if it was just a weekend, and she'd be back before
32:01they got the postcard.
32:02Nobody got in a phone call. Nobody got in a postcard.
32:04Little by little, the neighbors noticed that lights were going out and got suspicious and called the police.
32:34Hello, Westfield police!
32:50The thing that struck me the most was the stench of death that was there. It just permeated everything.
33:27What's up?
33:28What's up?
33:39What's up?
33:43What's up?
33:46What's up?
33:49What's up?
33:49What's up?
33:51What's up?
33:52What's up?
33:53What's up with the police?
33:56They're all right here, Captain.
33:58with two sons, a wife and a daughter.
34:06All of them shot this way, with the small caliber?
34:09We think a .22, a coroner will say for sure.
34:13You'd expect the bodies would decompose considerably,
34:16but what John did before he left is he turned the thermostats down to 50 degrees,
34:22and by doing that, it preserved the bodies to a certain extent.
34:26There is no sign of John List, but he did leave one thing behind,
34:31along with the bodies of his entire family.
34:34Officer Dole, I found this in the kitchen.
34:37A detailed letter.
34:41Captain, the thing was addressed to a pastor away.
34:45Don't you think we should at least let him read it first?
34:49There's four dead bodies in this house and no sign of the killer.
34:53Don't you think we should read it first?
35:02I'm sorry to add this additional burden to your work.
35:07That's what he's sorry about?
35:08Keep reading.
35:12I know that what has been done is wrong,
35:14from all that I have been taught,
35:15and that any reasons that I might give will not make it right.
35:19I wasn't earning anywhere near enough to support us.
35:22Everything I tried seemed to fall to pieces.
35:26True, we could have gone bankrupt,
35:27and maybe gone on welfare.
35:29But knowing the type of environment for the children,
35:32plus the effect on them knowing they were on welfare,
35:36was just more than I thought they could and should endure.
35:39What are you reading, Patricia?
35:41With Helen not going to church,
35:43I knew that this would harm the children eventually.
35:46And with Patty being so determined to get into acting,
35:49I was also fearful as to what that might do
35:52to her continuing to be a Christian.
35:55This makes me think that perhaps it was for the best,
35:58as far as the children's souls are concerned.
36:01If they were no longer Christians,
36:03what would be gained?
36:07Of course, Mother got involved,
36:09because doing what I did to my family
36:10would have been a tremendous shock to her at this age.
36:13Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.
36:15Therefore, I felt it best
36:18that she should be relieved of the troubles of this world.
36:22I'm sure many will say,
36:24how could anyone do such a horrible thing?
36:27My only answer is,
36:30it isn't easy.
36:32P.S.
36:36Mother is on the third floor.
36:40She was too heavy to move.
36:43What's the date on the letter?
36:49November 9th.
36:51One month.
36:54There's a saying that if you don't solve a crime
36:55within 48 hours,
36:57it's much less likely to be solved.
36:59We never had the 48-hour opportunity.
37:01We had 28 days
37:03before we even learned that there was a homicide.
37:05That gave John Liss a good head start
37:07in his new life.
37:18One month after the Liss family was gunned down in cold blood,
37:23police have discovered their bodies
37:25inside the family's Westfield, New Jersey home,
37:28as well as a letter
37:29outlining the killer's motive for the crime.
37:32Well, there was no question that John Liss was the murderer,
37:35because he gave more detail than any other person that I have ever seen.
37:41But John Liss has skipped town,
37:43and where he is now
37:45is anyone's guess.
37:47He had a big head start,
37:48but he just had a month to get out of the country.
37:50I never thought John Liss would be caught.
37:52As weeks turn into months
37:54and months turn into years,
37:56the hope of ever finding the man
37:59responsible for the grisly murders
38:01of his own mother, wife, and kids
38:03fades to almost nothing.
38:06But investigators never give up.
38:09We had put the John Liss story
38:12into tabloids
38:14that would be found in a supermarket,
38:15and eventually the story goes national.
38:19And when a popular TV program
38:21airs details of the crime,
38:23the very next day,
38:25the FBI receives a critical tip.
38:30Special Agent Thigpen.
38:36Ma'am, if you could just slow down for one second.
38:38I'm going to need to get some details.
38:41Now, what did you say your name was again?
38:43The tipster was Mrs. Flannery,
38:46and she called,
38:47and very matter-of-factly,
38:49she said,
38:49John Liss lives at this address
38:51in Richmond, Virginia.
38:53He married one of our neighbors.
38:56Yes, ma'am.
39:00No, that's very helpful.
39:04It could be nothing.
39:05It could be something.
39:08Yes, ma'am.
39:11Thank you for calling in.
39:35May I help you?
39:37I think you know why I'm here, Mr. List.
39:41I most certainly do not know why you are here, Mr.
39:43Mr.
39:45Mr.
39:45Mr. FBI.
39:47You're going by Robert Clark now, John?
39:49Tell me.
39:51How you come up with that?
39:54Listen, sir, I don't know any Mr. List.
39:57Stand up.
39:58Turn around.
39:59Put your hands on your head,
40:00and interlace your fingers.
40:02Sir, there's been some kind of a...
40:03I don't know any John.
40:06My name is...
40:07Do it.
40:07Well, I'll put you right on the ground.
40:09John List assumed the identity of a person
40:12by the name of Robert Clark.
40:13He got his Social Security number,
40:15so he was able to work.
40:17And quite ironically,
40:18he became the same person
40:20working in finance
40:22and attending a Lutheran church.
40:24You think I'm going to let you snowball me
40:26after all this time?
40:29No, John.
40:32You have to answer for your crimes.
40:34Time to go.
40:46He basically went on
40:48to create another life for himself,
40:49not a whole lot more successful
40:51than he was before.
40:52No new children as a result of the marriage,
40:54and no further homicides,
40:56but continued to live
40:58and do what he deprived his children
41:00and family of being able to do.
41:04His capture meant that dark cloud
41:06that had hung over Westfield
41:08sort of had moved away,
41:10and it felt to me like,
41:13you know, it was something
41:15that could be put to rest.
41:16It was done.
41:19In April of 1990,
41:22John List stands trial
41:23for the murders of his wife,
41:25three children,
41:26and his own mother.
41:29He was watching a robot.
41:31He was sitting there,
41:32no expression on his face,
41:34certainly no remorse on his face.
41:36It was absolutely emotional.
41:39This is evil, Your Honor,
41:41and sometimes there's something
41:44even worse than the evil
41:46that this defendant displayed on that day,
41:48and that is to deny its existence.
41:51His defense was a diminished capacity,
41:55which is something short
41:57of an insanity defense,
41:59saying that at the time that he did this,
42:01he wasn't in his right mind.
42:03I believe that you had no greater case
42:05of a premeditated murder.
42:07The premeditation started months,
42:09if not years before.
42:11He admitted to all of the details
42:14thought out of the escape.
42:17You can't be that cunning and that careful.
42:21Neither the jury nor the judge
42:23believed John List's
42:24diminished capacity defense.
42:26When faced with a sick wife
42:28and one that probably became
42:29extremely difficult to live with,
42:31he found death to be
42:33a more plausible alternative to divorce
42:35because he is a man without honor.
42:38His acts stand as a permanent,
42:40pathetic, and profane example
42:42of selfishness, horror, and evil.
42:45In the end,
42:47the only rationalization he gave
42:49for these murders
42:49is he was doing them a favor
42:52by letting them die in a state of grace.
42:56I asked him the obvious question,
42:58well, why didn't you kill yourself?
42:59And he gave me the answer.
43:00Well, suicide is a sin.
43:03Go figure.
43:06On April 12, 1990,
43:08John List is sentenced
43:09to five life sentences,
43:11but he dies after serving
43:13just 18 years.
43:16I don't think he suffered a whole lot
43:18in the 18 years he was on the outside.
43:20I don't think he suffered a whole lot
43:21in the 18 years he was on the inside.
43:23And that's the shame of him
43:25because for somebody who did what he did,
43:27he should have had plenty of suffering.
43:29she was on the third.
43:30Yeah.
43:30No.
43:39No.
43:39No.
43:40No.
43:40No.
43:41No.
43:41No.
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